The sheer number of buttons is just not fun

[sahrinity]

Rift was much worse than this I think the buttons are reasonable. They have limited it enough that you don't need macros to survive.

[MinguesDew]

No, wow doesn't have that problem. Classes in wow don't have the same type of ability bloat, and it has an interface that makes starting at your buff bar to watch for procs a thing of the past.

I'd like better UI options for this game as well; its worth mentioning though that (on my powertech main anyway) all procs have an audio or visual queue so you don't have to actually watch your skill bar for procs.

 

WoW used to (not by intention) have tons of ability bloat back in vanilla and through much of TBC (due to rank 1 abilities) off the top of my head (haven't played wow in years) on my mage I had rank 1 frostbolt, fireball, arcane missiles, sheep, frost nova, cone of cold on my shaman I had frost shock, flame shock, magma and searing totem.

 

Rank 1 spells were always situational (like the situational spells in this game) but were an opportunity for better players to separate themselves from the pack. Just like in WoW (everything is just like WoW!) the same morons who are too busy being dumb to use all their abilities will complain about this until BW removes the abilities that give people who are able to succesfully keybind and use 30+ abilities the edge over scrubs who just want to mash THE SAME 5 ABILITIES AS IN A PVE ROTATION (you can of course leave things off your bar for PvE).

 

Obviously I'm focused mainly on PvP because in PvE you can omit tons of stuff from your bars and though your DPS powertech will look like an idiot when he allows a wipe by not having taunt bound to get aggro off a healer I'm aware a lot of people choose to play that way. Which is fine by me, but when those same idiots come to the forums to complain about the abilities they haven't bound it irks me quite a bit as they are essentially trying to nerf me because they can't be bothered to use their abilities.

 

If you think 80% of your abilities are useless get off the forums and L2P.

 

If you can't keep track of all your abilities get off the forums and L2P.

 

If you have gotten off the forums and L2P and STILL feel the same way try another game, it took WoW about 3 years to do something about their rank 1 bloat (don't like calling it that because I for one, loved the nuance it added) if BW even agrees with you about the issue I wouldn't expect much to change in the next 1-2 years.

[Stenrik]

I actually like having many abilities and having to remember them all. To be honest I wish we had more. I'm just now starting to use abilities that I thought were useless many levels ago. It feels good.

[Empirical_Data]

I actually like having many abilities and having to remember them all. To be honest I wish we had more. I'm just now starting to use abilities that I thought were useless many levels ago. It feels good.

 

So how do you make then easier to access or at the very least bring the focal point back on the action?

[Veluthurk]

I played a Feral/Resto Druid, Surv Hunter, Fire Mage (and a Frost DK when I got tired of all the buttons). My approach to my Sent is I run 3 bars and leave the rarely used ones off. Won't run a 4th bar. I know blasphemy.

 

To you pro-gamers who say L2P, bite me.

 

Play the game the way you want to.

[ShadowOfVey]

If you're annoyed with having too many buttons, just roll a Merc and you'll only need to push one!

[Darth_Malady]

Welcome to the modern mmorpg, where every game copys the combat system from wow....

 

Guild wars 2 is going to change that tho

 

I suppose you were not fortunate enough to get a GW2 beta. You are in for a rude awakening.

[Stenrik]

So how do you make then easier to access or at the very least bring the focal point back on the action?

Yes, I absolutely agree with you there. I especially would like to bring some "proc-able" abilities to the center above my character so that I can more easily see when they're usable more easily.

 

I'm hoping that the UI customization in next patch will also allow us to move ablity bars around and adjust the number of slots per row, so we could have a floating bar of, say, 4 abilities. It would be dandy.

 

 

 

I suppose you were not fortunate enough to get a GW2 beta. You are in for a rude awakening.

Don't wanna get too off-topic here, but how is it a rude awakening? I don't want to derail the thread, so feel free to PM me. I just ask because I've been pretty excited about what I've seen of their combat system.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Stenrik

[va_wanderer]

If you're annoyed with having too many buttons, just roll a Merc and you'll only need to push one!

 

*hugs* You're a very special child. Now go back in the corner and have a popsicle.

 

Merc/Commandos that one-button you are basically calling you a noob for falling for it, and you probably didn't notice the other much less obvious abilities being used to flatline your HP bar anyway. It's failmode for DPS, either in PvE or PvP against anything that isn't weak to begin with.

[MinguesDew]

I played a Feral/Resto Druid, Surv Hunter, Fire Mage (and a Frost DK when I got tired of all the buttons). My approach to my Sent is I run 3 bars and leave the rarely used ones off. Won't run a 4th bar. I know blasphemy.

 

To you pro-gamers who say L2P, bite me.

 

Play the game the way you want to.

I agree, you can play how you want to; but there are a lot of people in this thread trying to force everyone to play the way you do by removing abilities.

 

Those people can bite me two times and I will counter with a situational ability they don't bind.

 

You get to NOT use your abilities and be a sub-par player, do you really need to bring me down to your level?

[Lolargasm]

Funny. I remember when I played DCUO and everyone complained that there wasnt enough abilities available. Gamers will never be happy.

 

There really weren't enough abilities in that game, this game also has too many imo.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Moitteva
removed IC

[Inthecrevice]

I don't think there can ever be enough abilities. As stated the set ones you use are there and that may be all you need. But, like in real life having other abilities is useful and nice in the fact that you even have them. Any option is better than no option even if trivial. It is good to experiment with them when running around exploring or doing lower level quests. You also never know when you will find an interesting combination that may perform as well as the standard set.

[archifikoss]

I'm not sure about PvP, but as far as questing is concerned I like the way the game is structured when it comes to button-pushing on my sniper. You have a choice between a few AoE and some select single target options for trash mobs, a wider range of abilities for strongs (or strong+standard), an even wider selection for elites and more or less the whole nine yards for bosses

 

Abilities are piling up like crazy though. I guess that since the game doesn't rely much on twitch reflex and aiming skill that it's a fair trade-off.

[Ragun]

Honestly I just wish we could use the basic attack more often, just because it has an awesome animation system that I never get to see anymore.

[Paganini]

The amount of buttons is fine... but there really needs to be a better way to keep track of procs than staring at my buff bar, that's what I spent most of my time doing. There was some developer video or interview where they said that's exactly what they didn't want to happen, I forget which one though.

[ferroz]

Lets get our facts straight here if we are going to use said facts to bash this game.

 

First. Everquest sucked.

Opinion, and based on your other remarks, I'm not convinced that you actually played it.

 

Second, you did not get one or two buttons. My druid alone had 5 dots, 2 heals, 2 hots, 3 nukes, and 3 utility such as snare.

Impressive, considering that you only have 8 gem slots to mem stuff in. Not that you'd want all of that stuff at once, since you'd generally want either a healer loadout or a dps loadout.

 

my wizard, in groups, would usually use 2 buttons most fights.

 

 

and... hots for a druid?

 

 

You did not mash two buttons then sit for 30 seconds. If you soloes, you killed one mob then sat for 30 MINUTES. My druid, at the end, took 27 minutes to regen his mana. When we complained, they put in the game "gems" for us to play while regening.

Ok, I don't believe that you were a druid; Maybe you've just heard of druids.

 

If you were a druid, you quad kited and you didn't have to med 30 minutes between pulls. for my wizard (also quid kiting) I think it was 7-10 minutes between pulls.

 

All you did in Wow was pick a camp site, (like lower guk) and sit there most of your time, with a battle ever 22 mins, then sit some more.

In wow?

Spawn time in lower guk was ~ 28 minutes. I used to solo assassin/supplier camp on my CLERIC (generally a bad class for soloing, but good against undead: we had better nukes against undead in the 30s than a wizard did, more damage per mana).

 

I'd bind at the zone in, kill one DA and gate, and then run back, in order to break camp. The first spawn cycle, I'd kill the 3 in the assassin's room, and then at least one more. After that, I'd usually get in 6 or 7 mobs per spawn cycle (sometimes less if I actually got a named)

 

as i ended my time in that camp, I think i would clear ~10 mobs per cycle. 2 casts of my undead nuke for the greens (one big and one small), 2-3 for anything that was a blue con, 3-4 for a named. Hit myself with a Celestial heal, med for 2 minutes and I was on to the next mob.

Edited February 22, 2012 by ferroz

[Kamosabe]

Funny. When I played DC:UO there were people complaining about how few buttons there were.

 

 

people were complaining, because their lousy UI could only hold 6 skills (beside 1 trinket and 1 potion). you had easily the double amount of abilities, but couldnt fit it into the bar, because DCUO was a crappy console-port, made for playstation and gamepad.

 

back-to-topic:

i never thought that there are too many abilities, but i noticed that when playing my juggernaut, i was more looking at my bar and CDs, than the actual fight (except for screening whats going on).

Edited February 22, 2012 by Moitteva
avoiding language filter

[Zarrot]

I love my Juggy and all his different abilities. You want less button play on a console.

[Vyradder]

SWTOR is an entirely linear game. Pretty much Skyrim with an inbuilt chatroom.

 

I don't think you understand what linear means. Skyrim is the exact opposite of linear gaming.

 

SWTOR is linear to some degree though, for sure.

[Tal-N]

The fact is that part of your problem is most likely down to an inefficient key bind set up.

 

In reality the number of easy access keybinds totals 18 for a WASD set up. That is more than enough easy to reach keys for your abilities. Anything which is on a long cool down, requires you to stand still or doesn't require split-second reaction times can be clickable.

 

For everything else you have:

1

2

3

alt+1

alt+2

alt+3

Q

E

Z

X

C

F1

alt+Q

alt+W

alt+E

alt+A

alt+S

alt+D

 

That's 18 abilities which can be triggered at a moments notice. Z, X and C require a bit of finger acrobatics which is why I don't recommend Alt+ for these since they would require you to take your fingers away from over the WASD.

 

I normally set up keybinds to relate to actions if they are on the WASD keys. Alt+W being an advancing ability such as Force Leap, Alt+S being a retreating ability or defensive ability like Saber Ward. If you then keep with this kind of mindset you can switch characters and maintain keybinds based upon purpose and it makes the transition easier.

 

For example, I mainly play Scoundral but I have a low level Shadow alt. However this idea of 'purpose' themed keybinds carries over. Q is the key for normal stealth, Alt+Q is the in-combat stealth trigger. Alt+W is Back Blast for my Scoundral but it is also Shadow Strike for my Shadow. F1 is always used for interupts.

 

Give this a go and you should find things become far less of a handful.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Tal-N

[uidLucid]

I agree, make SWTOR like that other game so I can wipe entire warzones by doing nothing but pressing 1,2,3,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,1,1. Now THAT'S a good time I tell ya.

[Tal-N]

Skyrim is the exact opposite of linear gaming.

 

Skyrim is a linear game. The simple reason why you think it isn't is because there are significant things to do outside of the central storyline.

 

Skyrim has a sequence of events which tell a story, so did Oblvion. However it also has lots of other stuff to do without even touching the central storyline. SWTOR has the core of Skyrim but lacks all of the extra stuff to do beyond the core.

 

Try to be fair though here. SWTORs storyline is more complex, more varied and has more content than the core storyline in Skyrim. Put simply, development budgets and time can only go so far and Bioware decided to focus on the core story and less on the 'other' stuff.

[Afflictionz]

Have you ever played an MMO?

 

Lmao beat me it.

[Akash]

Of course the answer is macro support.

 

Even with full macro support, like Rift, you will have your entire hotbar filled up with situationals.

[SushaBrancaleone]

Have you ever played an MMO?

 

 

 

unfortunately for you this dude was not being unpolite but very relevant. this is how mmorpgs generally work, there might be some exeptions but it is really part of the genre. I also understand the aggresivenes of the poster above, as asking for mmorpgs to take a FPS (First Person Shooter) approach is... just selfish. If u dont like the genre dont play it, DONT ask for the genre and the comunity to change for you. I don't want to be mean but the point is along the lines of "if u don't like skiing, don't ask for skiing to be done on sand dunes where its not cold. just go play beach volleyball or something that soothes more ure intersts.

 

I mean even RTS (Real Time Strategy) games are rather taxing at the number of buttons and skill/actions u can choose from. IF u dont like too many skills/actions/buttons, the gernres that best accomodate that approach are FPS and generally console games: the wii being the extreme example/

 

If whats holding you instead is the story line and the franchise: aka. u wanna play it cos its star wars, then don't worry most of the best story telling in swtor is done in the class quests and the FPs u can see that content by "rerolling" all the clases and not having to play at end game where there are more skills.

Edited February 22, 2012 by SushaBrancaleone