"Well, I would not accuse him of patricide, because it’s not really wrong to kill Vitiate. But all other things are true, genocide being the most important probably." vitiate is still his father and Arcann plots to have the outlander kill him and also tries to. While his action seems born of hate (that only applies to the fratricide) his attack on daddy not only seems premeditated but he also reaps the benefits right after and freezes the outlander... in ancient law/religion patricide was always one of the worst crimes. particularly if with intent of inheriting that role (Locke often compares father/king)... Arann also only kills the tyrant to replace him himself.. which transcends the point. Tyranicide (spelling? ) on the other has been excused at times in history - for example Dante's divine comedy places Brutus and Cassius in the Limbo but would be otherwise be granted access to purgatory - and there is a discussion in the related chapter on tyranicide not being (always a major crime) <while by shakespears time G. Ceasar is viewed as a positive figure, only 200 years earlier he was just viewed as an evil tyrant. "Would have been much better if Senya was trying to save Vaylin until the end(and our character could have the option too). That said, how is she the hero of both sagas? In KOTFE maybe, in KOTET she is barely present as she is either dead or in a coma" well when she returns in chapter 8 she is there to face Vaylin, with outlander and arcann, and in chapter 9 she not only is there to buy time for the outlander but is also there to help kill vitiate. Moreover, the opening cinematic is basically about senya, and since Vaylin who is the main antagonist isnt redeemed into a hero position senya remains the focus. Furthermore (), the whole iokath parenthesis is a huge offtopic from the story so far (and its conclusion) - kotet kotfe is basically about valkorions family, and the only 'way' i make sense of iokath chapters is as preparation for the story after kotet. So considering the chapters still focusing on valkorion &co 1-3 and from nathema onward (6 or 7?) Senya still however helps further define Vaylins struggle as is a prominent influence even when offscreen. She also is one of the few characters (aside from outlander) whos intentions are clear and 'good' (D&D) and well written (lanas motivation seem very samaritan, even as dark side i don't recall her ever not making choices for the benefit of the greater good (and rarely has a personal agenda).

except the real reason to just do LB (compared to any other boss in the same OPs) is to get the daily, and the conquest objective, (possibly on multiple toons so to cap them fast).

ty for the post, here hoping 6.0 looks into this part of the story this is my view on vaylin - Arcan can be (validly accused of) fratricide, attempted patricide, participation in plotting in patricide, genocide (several times), attempted matricide, and more. More importantly he persues such actions willingly and most of the time of his own will. Vaylin. Genocide, attempted matricide (but doesn't go through with it in chapter 16 - on the contrary again she is stripped of choice by.. time). Poor vaylin has also been betrayed by both her father and mother (in childhood) and is mostly a victim of circumstance. Yet, the light side choice is to forgive arcann (cutting him a lot of slack considering some of those crimes have been on the very top of the list of nonos since writing was invented - mythology - religion etc) but to let Vaylin either die, or just be trapped on odessen or within the player? There is so much tragedy in her story (and considering Senya is really the hero of both sagas - and not the player) it just seems like a lost opportunity to not dwelge into her story rather than arcan, which in comparison has had his personality fleshed out a lot less. viva vaylin In comparison -in Dune (book 3?) a possessed sister by baron arkonnen is pitied and given a lot of slack before of her.. defenestration. -Aliens, Ripleys motherly relation with Newt which goes and constitute a huge part of her 'hero of circumstance persona' was actually explored in the comics made between Aliens and Alien 3 (newt didn't die in those). nonetheless, Newts absence in A3 furthers her motivations as the hero that fights for the general good vs a huge evil corporation (why put your neck out , in RL), hence increasing her credibility as 'hero of circumstance'. In swtor, or rather Kotet/fe the lack of an inconclusive plot line for mother and daughter seriously compromises comprehension of the messages dweldged into thus far. Vaylin has been victim of great injustice and a light side character/hero that does not attempt to fix address that, is diminished in his role (of hero)

,,,

peace is a lie. there is only pizza!

seems Celise shines more than u hope

besides being against the spirit of the game. seconded . it defeats all the effort of those groups that 'would' manage and prevents the newer players from learning full ops mechanics, and is a lot more boring than doing a normal ops. and yes considering how SM is auto mode with 258.. i mean... why not make a petition to remove all NOT last bosses from ops ...we all know which guilds are upset by this.

im not trying to antagonize you, nor am I saying its your fault. Also when i say 'even in the best scenario' its because rather than talking of your specific situation - Im referring to a diversity of possible scenarios, hoping this can help by providing a wider perspective. If you want helpfull advice on regards the best I can do is this: when it was time for me to get a bit more into pvp, i decided to approach some of the players that would end up in 4v4 with me (i played unranked for more than 4-5 months exclusively never really caring for 4v4 and just really wanting to do some huttball) and ask directly. I met some very polite and friendly pvpers, who gave me all the tips advice they possibly could. And still in retrospect some of those things i wasnt ready for etc etc.. - let people ask dont tell them. Point - the teaching analogy still stands, teaching someone who inst in the mood to be taught can end up wrong in so many ways even if u are officially designated to that role. (teacher pranks eg). Said differently, even in pro football/sports, if a colleague is crap i can hardly imagine a scenario where two players discuss what should have been done during the game. Right after the game you might want to discuss debate strategies applied but mistakes (which would require practice to correct rather than lecturing) rarely would be debated constructively in the locker room. If you want to help a collegue improve you would do that in training sessions and possibly socialize a tad too... Don't make me imagine how this would specifically translate into swtor pvp, il let your imagination do the rest. happy huttballs! edit: let me be clear. the pvp community gets a lot of agro. As I have come to know the pvp community I feel this is actually unfair and partially incorrect. UNFORTUNATELY, while a 'more invested gamer' may endevor to try and help a less experienced player this just brings to situations where discriminating towards the gamer (and thus gamers) is not only and acceptable reaction but sometimes even encouraged. This happens exclusively because (More often than not) the gamer - frustrated by elo loss, lack of communication, being insulted back - will rage and automatically lose any argument regardless of his/her argumentation and entirely based on their attitude.

no im still in the guild but not in the discord. the guild has a specific naughty corner rank

talk about wild imagination, i never was an officer at best a recruiter, and never of my own accord I just kept doing what i did before, being helpful. I thought u had resigned 2 months ago? congrats for taking back the role then?

well depends. if its only erasing the last 2 months of cheevo progress (for example) and the only players who already didn't have planetary conquest cheevos are the new, unaware ones. So that would seem to punish the wrong group of people removing the loophole removes the issue.

NO! As i said. removing unranked - or something in that direction - so that ALL PLAYERS matches work towards stabilizing their ELO (for that toon) is the right direction. Not to praise WoW arena (i havent since 2006..so) but my memory of it and the learning curve was very related to the 'brackets' that the matchmaking system is supposed to put you in. Same goes for SC2. In swtor part of the problem is caused by the system not having sufficient data - hence use what u have (maybe make climbing 4v4 ladder part of the general system and reward players individually..) maybe.. i dunno hope u get the direction im going with this

i wasn't being specific of your situation. but still, expecting that convo to go well is hardly within the cards. example your playing football, your infront of the enemy goal, free from defence and your mate with ball is surrounded but has easy access to pass u the ball tries to but royaly fails. Scenario number 1. its pro football your being paid and are really angry at him (cos u get also paid by scores btw). scenario number 2 its a sunday match and your playing with your friends after lunch at the pub. Are you seriously gonna get into a discussion with your mate about his Banana feet? possibly infront of your gf/wife and his and maybe children? Hopefully not.

taking this to extremes, but, what if they aren't really invested in improving, or not right then (maybe they just wanna steam off with some pvp) or just not in the mood. What im saying is Transfer of Knowledge is usually stressful enuff (or we wouldn't have school punishments to begin with etc etc etc).. Any successful ToK spawned from unfavorable circumstances (including astral positioning if u allow me a pun) is like finding a 0.0001 drop item... The system needs to cater towards this and not the player/community.. the frustration pvpers further in progression are subject to has been a constant so far. just an example to try and give a double perspective. 'You/anyone' might be thinking your trying to be helpful and friendly by sharing info you took months to acquire, but the all the other players sees is an unfriendly posture or possibly insults' Considering that 'such students' are not 'obliged to go to school' it is not surprising they will walk away if they feel your 'teaching technique' is even 1% not interesting/funny/engaging/whatever. I dont know where u stand in life but just consider, why do teachers get angry with students.. I mean why care? The implications are... immense,, just in the RL, expecting a pvp community to be the driving force spreading the required know how... is hyperbole imo

my point is that denying access to someone cos they are not 'good' is not the way to go about it. I dont want to hyperbole, but surely you see that 1 some may have impediments to their efficiency, others may just not be good... My point is in a 4v4, and no draws at the end of the day 4 players get the pointy end of the stick no matter what. its unfair to expect the 'unskilled or inexperienced or whatever, to exclude himself. - What I mean is usually pvp rating systems which are based on the chess world matching rating SHOULD assign players within brackets. When this isn't possible it goes for the next best thing. If population is very low, the 'next best thing' becomes, 'whatever is available' Now, would you agree with me if i told you that 30 mins PVP VIDEO GUIDE for a specific class is probably NOT sufficient time to cover everything and that to even keep it within 30 mins youd have to cram in a lot of info and renounce any idle talk... Usually that amount of experience takes a lot of time to acquire, some things require practice aside from the knowledge. Take a sage, while easy to use the amount of options available are many and knowing about them is one thing being able to remember them ALL in a match is another. Now about being asked to teach, (and tbh im not sure i agree but..) how do expect the above information (AND A LOT MORE OF IT) to be transferred in a conversation that is most probably spawned off a lost pvp match and the salt that derives. How such a socialization can go well is only up to godess fortune especially considering how long any such convo might be and considering the mood of both parties entering the convo (possible after having first insulted each other). I agree with many of your points and would rather discuss those and how they could be solved (for example removing unranked and using wzs to acquire elo data for the system to use when assigning matches would help alleviating problems related to lack of data) than advocate in favor of the frustration that trying to transfer months (or more) of experience (and salt) brings to.

considering how the post has also become a venue for guilds to deny having used ToS farming I tend to agree with you (its funny cos no1 ever said its exploiting).

errrr "dont tll me how to play my tune id love to duel you." followed by, "duel?" etc.

lol you seem not to perceive that officers are supposed to represent other players. fluff it is

I have recently en-devoured in getting all my kotet master cheevos and have so far done the last 2 of kotfe. I have done this across 2 toons, 1 admittedly is my main and has a lvl 50 lana, and senya, the other doesn't. Before I elaborate on that, what I noticed is that all the chapters with specific abilities, said abilities are IMMENSELY imbalanced. If you use said skill as intended or in the proper succession etc, they decrease significantly the duration of the fight. Aside from this 258 gear makes all the master chapters rather easy. I have recently tried and got my eternal championship 15 min cheevo (and the all classes EC cheevo - btw Heroic moment rips through almost all of them) and then went to do the master chapters. If you go with a dps class and apply any form of rotation that is not even HM worthy you should still be able to rip through anything without dying to often. On top of that most of the challenging fights do not reset adds and even bosses (if theres 2 eg). sometimes u can walk back to a single boss whose hp hasn't even rest. I can only remember 2 bosses that required a bit more effort (2 dudes at electric station in senya chapter in lower zakuul, and the gemini). Everything else is mostly 1 shotted and deaths are occasional, there is hardly a mob that will kill you twice throughout the 16 chapters. in comparison i remember veteran chapters being harder in 248 gear. Basically, if you havent gotten your master chapter cheevos till now, and want them, then hurry before 6.0 ><

without saying anything about you, however this is one of 2 scenarios usually and frankly the less frequent and less clarifying of the situation. Namely in your case the 'player that needs schooling' was 'trying to school'. Normally its the hater in my experience that will go to the trouble of whispering people with tips - usually the solo ranked player that just lost 400 ELO while being matched with immensly lower ranked team mates (due to the low population deficiencies) keep in mind hes not in the best of moods usually when he approaches u with tips. The fact that you have so "candidly" decided to do some ToK does in now way mean the other player has the time or interest to 'stay a while and listen'... Nor that that player has a sufficient interest in pvp to take it that far.. whatever be the reasons you must see that imposing your views on someone elses game is in no way polite or friendly? tbh the distinction between unranked and ranked is the problem at this point. all Arenas should count towards ELO and wzs be part of the same GF but not give ELO, or something down those lines. That way not only will people stop filtering access to PVP but the GF will have consistent numbers on toons to play with when evaluating palyers (cos all matches would count towards assigning your elo/rating - and thus match u against equal players)

you seem to think im the only one who didn't want Tos farming in the guild. Did you miss the part where i mentioned we lost a council member and atleast 2 officers, not mentioning activities of officers who are disenchanted?

well this is assuming guilds mean anything these days. and I'm not trolling - let me elaborate before i get to the point - ALL my +hm op activity has come not from my guild - i raid with several guilds and different pug groups all interguild, and its not like I invented the system. On regards, I have done some good progress but its besides the point. - I haven't participated by principle in any guild stuff for months even before ToS farming, and however can still appreciate some parts of that community. I'm not responsible for what other do, collectively or not, and honestly BIO has had the last 2 months of conquests as solid data on regards. If you've even checked the # lately they put to shame world records submitted just a few months previous (and optained during xp boost events). Ofc info from pts is that the new player cap will be 50k instead of 15k but we will have to see if that is a fix. As to why I posted? No i don't expect any swift solution nor do i particularly want it (as i said i cater for myself and never really cared for conquest), but these are the official forums and the correct way to have this discussion if it is to be had, at-least that way the cryptic sophism's chucked about are for all to read. Just to be clear there is no need to warn eric, if not him the issue is known of and easily detectable. Edit: Also be advised discord operation announcement channels are spammed with requests of helping guild tos farm for conquest, the implications are that many dont even know what it means, and a lot of new players with 0 raid experience are lulled into doing this hours on end and day after day, all in the name of hoarding digital mats, which, atm are also devaluating incredibly in sight of onslaught Edit2: As to Bio seeking proof or knowing of, first of all the activity has been (we were told) tagged as NOT EXPLOITING, hence requires no reporting, secondly, considering the recent PVP banwaves for wintrading and Eric's latest announcements, LET me just say that finding proof for wintrading is much harder to get than it would to see something happening in plain sight and which they have been approached and asked of. Really the only way you wouldn't wander what is happening on Darth Malgus Conquest in the last 2 months is if you haven't checked it (fyi I often don't ) and that shouldn't (and isn't) be the case for devs of a game.

because the guild tried to deal with it internally, many officers in the past 2 months have voiced against this and have been ignored, many resigned (atleast 1 officer -others left - and 1 council member). I have not been an officer since before that, and have decided to speak out yesterday after the recurring discussion (after having stayed as far as possible thus far- from the activity rather than the debate-). Also, and having being told Bioware was aware of this I was expecting them to solve the problem by eventually applying the same fix that had been done with Brontes (correct me if I'm wrong). So 1 why open a ticket for something that isn't an exploit (so i was told)? 2 while I tend towards not appreciating Tos farming, it is not up to me to find a solution, usually devs take feedback and then make their own choice (rightfully - or not), this thread is about letting devs know what users feel about this, the opportunity is for all to take or lose. As in the following month the debate resulted in inter-guild arguments and spy posts, (I also feel this is witch-hunting btw and have refrained from involving myself) I also was one of the few to speak against other guilds leaders jumping on our discord and discussing 'ToS farming'. Hence as we lost another officer last week, and 2 days ago another officer tried to express himself against, and so did previous guild leaders, and all were ignored I felt it was hightime somebody actually put this out there, as for example this has alienated all not conquest inclined players from our guild. As to me, im happy raiding, proceed outside of guilds and have never really engaged in conquest. The issue has however been intentionally been kept low profile till now, and i am here to share info with the community, I know that the internet is very much like sparta and that diplomats are responsible for what they say and that is why i'm here now. pizza and prosperity!

they are not killing any bosses. the activity consists in going to the first boss engaging it, killing its adds ONLY and restarting the boss fight before it dies. rinse & repeat hour on end.

FYI you might want to give wow in zul garub epidemic a google search, as I've always been fairly sure that the RE was a hint at that debacle. The bbc ended up making articles on it and some universities used it to study infection patterns.