Playing a sorc, hoping for a sorc nerf

[astrolite]

Reason 3: Bioware isn't going to just simply nerf a class, they will change it so it is more viable in different ways (Operatives for example less damage.. more control), if this is less aoe damage and more single target damage I will take that any day. Less aoe damage and more control I will also take that.

 

Ops lost a bunch of damage and this "control" you speak amounts to nothing. Prior to the nerf an operative would face plant you for 3 seconds. Then, if the fight was still going after several seconds, they could use debilitate - the 4 second stun. Now you use your stun up front which only adds 1.5s to it. If it gets broken, then you are SOL for a long time.

 

I'd rather have the 3s initial and the ability to use the 4s later. Especially useful when fighting more than one person.

[Keldaur]

Not really because AoE dps is actually pretty low for a sorc. So there really isn't that much to keep up with. Not to mention that continually staying grouped up and continually hit by an AoE is bad form. That can't be placed on the sorc, that's on the other players being retarded.

 

 

I disagree again, even good teams will get clustered on voidstar due to how it's. Infact as a melee, i love people aoe'ing, because:

 

A - They force them to spread, so i can concentrate on targets while not getting chain knockbacked/cc for a cluster of rangeds.

B - Their health is +-75%, making it easy for me to do a rotation which will end up killing the guy before any heals come.

C - They are snared if they are inside.

 

Btw, that about low dps. You should get your spreadsheet and numbers right, with the proc for chain lightning those aoe's start to shine ;P

 

But still people say "aoe's bad" "doing damage =/= winning wz!!!" and stupid stuff to make theirselves feel better.

[thartman]

Reason 1:

Any type of nerf I see coming will be against the sorcerers AOE ability, which is hardly a factor on winning, just shows an inflated damage stat that everyone is for some reason amazed about.

 

Half the screenshots of 500k+ damage were done by a sorc just spamming chain lightning, death field the whole game which in reality doesn't help your team win. Most of these screen shots normally show the player actually losing with 500k+ damage done.

 

Reason 2: I started the sorcerer class because I really enjoy the ranged damage perspective it offers. I dislike people rolling the class just based on the fact that they want face roll large inflated damage numbers in pvp games.

 

Reason 3: Bioware isn't going to just simply nerf a class, they will change it so it is more viable in different ways (Operatives for example less damage.. more control), if this is less aoe damage and more single target damage I will take that any day. Less aoe damage and more control I will also take that.

 

For the record, the most damage done in my guild was actually done by a bounty hunter, mainly because he knows his class like the back of his hand.

 

Lol. Spamming Chain Lightning and Death Field. Last time I checked, these were both on cooldowns...6 secs and 15 secs respectively.

 

Sorcerers aren't OP. In fact, they are decently balanced. It's huttball. The map design is very friendly to some classes and very unfriendly to others. Unfortunately due to server pop imbalances and currently being the only same faction warzone, it is the most played warzone.

[Valfodr]

Factoring in procs and applying some logic to the overall effect and utility that AoE is doing is too hard.

 

Everyone should quit QQing because I'm not doing 50% of everyone's HP AoE!

 

Some people really have no understanding of how math and resource/time management can be useful apparently.

 

 

 

inb4 someone again tries to state a l2p issue while talking about how they get burned or locked down on a Sorc/Sage. lol

[kijthae]

I only agree for sorcerer's aoe damage. When I realized a sorc casting aoe from a high ground I interrupt , cc or force pull them. Sorcerers are beatable when interruption abilities not wasted. Healer sorcs are a little bit tougher but they are healer they supposed to survive.

[pathiss]

For the record, the most damage done in my guild was actually done by a bounty hunter, mainly because he knows his class like the back of his hand.

 

No. Not because he knows it like the back of his hand. Its due to the fact that it simply DOES more damage ...and more effective damage. Drop your sorc for a bit and reroll a merc.

 

In a dps spec, you will do more effective damage while being less squishy. In heal spec you will do more effective healing (less aoe healing though, so less numbers in void star) because you don't have to rely on other as much to keep you alive...

[Affics]

Sorcs with build like 7/18/16 are the most dangerous. But powertech are much more powerfull, their burst is insane and its harder to los them.

[GrandMike]

So two healers had to be healing like madman to be able to keep the pressure one single sorc was able to do. If you don't think that makes life easier to single target burst classes to be able to choose whatever goon you want and kill him thanks to the AoE sorc, then i don't know what else to say.

 

And i am not complaining about the class, i am just clearing up facts.

 

Healing like madman? if they cant heal through 1,5k damage every 6s, or 2,5k damage over 6s they should stop playing. Like completely.

 

And terribads that let sorc free channel whole WZ should also quit PvP. or L2P. Reminds me of someone....

 

Because they want to think they have been doing things right when they didn't. It's funny when you even read them say it's 2500 damage over 6s on 5 targets only and with a snare, i dont wan't an snare on mah aoes !!

 

That's 2k dps and we are not speaking about crits, of course you should find a nice cluster for that but hey you also get more insta aoes that way. (Because you should talent for that but they like their surge on DoTs too much).

 

On a game where AoE heals doesn't even get close to heal that much on 12 seconds.

 

/facepalm.

 

Yeees, you see massive spammage of that particular skill in WZs

 

And if you think healers dont like weak aoes to pad their own numbers, well. Its easiest way to 300k medal.

 

I dont think you even played lvl50 bracket yet.

 

I only agree for sorcerer's aoe damage. When I realized a sorc casting aoe from a high ground I interrupt , cc or force pull them. Sorcerers are beatable when interruption abilities not wasted. Healer sorcs are a little bit tougher but they are healer they supposed to survive.

 

No, no, no, you see, this is a thread about terribads vs. good sorc. Terribads complain their button mashing didnt pwn the sorc.

 

You are doing it WRONG! ;P

Edited February 22, 2012 by GrandMike

[pathiss]

Any sensible nerf will be against your hybrid specs, and your bubble.

 

The bubble doesnt need a nerf. It counters a single hard hit from an enemy and has a 20 second (17 will pvp heal set bonus) debuff it places the prevents it from being cast on the target again.

 

The ability is balanced. People just likme to whine when they dont see damage numbers over someones head when they mash thier dps abilities.

[sweatbox]

The bubble doesnt need a nerf. It counters a single hard hit from an enemy and has a 20 second (17 will pvp heal set bonus) debuff it places the prevents it from being cast on the target again.

 

The ability is balanced. People just likme to whine when they dont see damage numbers over someones head when they mash thier dps abilities.

 

 

make it a 2 or 3min cd and take away your speed increase and your spammable slow and reduce the dmg and call yourself a trooper, o yeah but troopers wear heavy armor.....

[pathiss]

Sadly most of the nerf sorc whines are do to people wrongly thinking bubble is all of that, due to lack of understanding and due to the lightning slow. Hell half the whines I see about 'sorcs' are due to confusion with assassins, lmao.

 

The only thing that really should be done is moving the immobilize on knockback to high up in the heal tree and maybe nerfing the blind after the bubble pop or moving it to high up in the heal tree as well.

 

The fatal flaw is as such:

 

1. Sorc/Sage dps/hybrid is too tanky

 

2. Sorc/Sage main healers are too squishy without guard against anyone with half a brains that uses interrupts/cc to negate the healing.

[Panzerbase]

So the OP downplays the effectiveness of AOE, what a sad and stupid lie, aoe has so many uses it's not even funny. No you need to have your hybrid specs utterly decimated and forced to play the top tiers, and without compensation. Maybe then you will learn to play your class with skill.

[pathiss]

make it a 2 or 3min cd and take away your speed increase and your spammable slow and reduce the dmg and call yourself a trooper, o yeah but troopers wear heavy armor.....

 

There isnt a spammable slow. The instant slow is on a long cooldown and the channel slow isnt effective at allowing you to gain distance because you have to stay immobile to channel.

 

My merc vastly out damages any spec sorcerer specced for damage, and grossly out survives a sorc healer in heal spec... and that without relying on someone else to guard me. The only place a sorc out heals me in in voidstar where they can easily rack up numbers with the gtaoe heal pool.

[pathiss]

I only agree for sorcerer's aoe damage. When I realized a sorc casting aoe from a high ground I interrupt , cc or force pull them. Sorcerers are beatable when interruption abilities not wasted. Healer sorcs are a little bit tougher but they are healer they supposed to survive.

 

Actually the healer is even easier to drop. Try stopping innervate with CC, locking out the big heal, and pulling them out of the heal puddle. They dont have the defensive tools the dps sorcs do (bubble blindness and immobilze on aoe knockback).

 

They are only seem tougher to drop because they are more likely to have guard. (but then thats two players you are trying to counter, not one).

Edited February 22, 2012 by pathiss

[thartman]

make it a 2 or 3min cd and take away your speed increase and your spammable slow and reduce the dmg and call yourself a trooper, o yeah but troopers wear heavy armor.....

 

Energy shield and static barrier and 2 totally different abilities. I see what you are doing but it doesn't make sense. Nerfing the damage on force lightning would be ruin pve. The snare and sprint are present because...you know...they don't wear heavy armor.

 

You are taking a few skills from each class and making them the comparison for "the total package".

[LenrocNewDawn]

I keep hearing that AoE damage is unimportant and doesn't really count towards victory. I don't wanna talk about objective defense advantages that AoE damage abilities offers but about the fact that combat in SWTOR is based on attrition. Your team's damage output vs the other team's effective hit points and vice-verse with CCs acting as modifiers. That being said I don't understand why some people state that AoE is not important towards demolishing the other team while they admit that AoE attacks racks them more damage then many of the classes that deals mostly single target damage. And yes I understand that in some situation single target damage is more suitable (like clashes between 2,3 people each side) but from that to extrapolate that AoE damage doesn't count towards winning is a very long way.

 

Cheers, Lenroc!

[EternalFinality]

I am responding to the direct quote of whats below

 

In which case YES we were talking about HEALING spec Sorc's

 

Healing apparently is getting a "Fix" since a skill isnt working intentionally.

Kinda like the maruaders bleeds.

 

So now we are not talking about healing, but about damage and utility?

 

Make up your mind about what discussion you want to have

 

You have a problem reading and understanding things, clearly. Let me spell it out for you.

 

Full healing Sorc = best healer = overpowered.

 

Hybrid healing Sorc = great healing, great utility = overpowered

 

Hybrid dps Sorc = great damage, insane utility = overpowered

 

If you start the slider on full healing Sorcs and slide it towards the hybrid dps Sorc, no matter where you stop it Sorcs are overpowered. No matter where you stop it, if you add up their healing, damage, and utility, it adds up to more than other classes.

 

I don't care whether you're talking about full healing sorcs, hybrid healing sorcs, or hybrid dps sorcs, they are ALL overpowered, regardless of the fact that they don't have every tool in every spec.

 

Get it yet?

[Barzarel]

You have a problem reading and understanding things, clearly. Let me spell it out for you.

 

Full healing Sorc = best healer = overpowered.

 

Hybrid healing Sorc = great healing, great utility = overpowered

 

Hybrid dps Sorc = great damage, insane utility = overpowered

 

If you start the slider on full healing Sorcs and slide it towards the hybrid dps Sorc, no matter where you stop it Sorcs are overpowered. No matter where you stop it, if you add up their healing, damage, and utility, it adds up to more than other classes.

 

I don't care whether you're talking about full healing sorcs, hybrid healing sorcs, or hybrid dps sorcs, they are ALL overpowered, regardless of the fact that they don't have every tool in every spec.

 

Get it yet?

And those utilities make up for ous being as squishy as we are compared to most other classes, plus our utilities are not that immensely more than a good deal of other classes.

 

Damage is great if we pump it with a AOE, and for most parts damage from hybrid dps runs on wrath procs from challenging Force lighting, given how squishy we are its great damage when left alone fair enough, but when we being hit and depend on moving to avoid damage or using line of sight its, rarely epitome for a class designed around kiting, and using utilities to be able to some degree have a succesful chance of winning fights doing so.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Barzarel

[Justgiveme]

Reason 1:

(Operatives for example less damage.. more control)

More control? lol

[PostalTwinkie]

AOE ability is absolutely a factor in wining. From range I can interrupt everyone on a node at once. In civil war I can get at people that are using the pillar as LOS to cap.

 

Not saying it needs a nerf but claiming it does nothing but pad number is extremely wrong.

 

Yea, it kind of sucks that one character can completely clear an entire node cap attempt...those damn AoE's! Though the simple(ish) thing to do is when you see that Sorc coming, go lock him down while someone caps....

 

Any sensible nerf will be against your hybrid specs, and your bubble.

 

BioWare has said several times they do not support Hybrid builds and will actively take measures to prevent them from happening. So I absolutely expect to see something done, but not until 1.2 at least.

[Aidank]

And those utilities make up for ous being as squishy as we are compared to most other classes, plus our utilities are not that immensely more than a good deal of other classes.

 

Damage is great if we pump it with a AOE, and for most parts damage from hybrid dps runs on wrath procs from challenging Force lighting, given how squishy we are its great damage when left alone fair enough, but when we being hit and depend on moving to avoid damage or using line of sight its, rarely epitome for a class designed around kiting, and using utilities to be able to some degree have a succesful chance of winning fights doing so.

 

People have already done the calculations on it

 

 

You need to be taking 80k damage over 20 seconds for the extra mitigation from HEAVY armor to outweigh the absorbtion of two bubbles. Completely unrealistic.

 

 

Sorcerers aren't squishy at all.

[CaptainInsano]

I keep hearing that AoE damage is unimportant and doesn't really count towards victory. I don't wanna talk about objective defense advantages that AoE damage abilities offers but about the fact that combat in SWTOR is based on attrition. Your team's damage output vs the other team's effective hit points and vice-verse with CCs acting as modifiers. That being said I don't understand why some people state that AoE is not important towards demolishing the other team while they admit that AoE attacks racks them more damage then many of the classes that deals mostly single target damage. And yes I understand that in some situation single target damage is more suitable (like clashes between 2,3 people each side) but from that to extrapolate that AoE damage doesn't count towards winning is a very long way.

 

Cheers, Lenroc!

 

AoE damage is mediocre damage spread out on multiple people so it has very low killing potential. It's like a basketball player padding his stats on a bad team. The damage doesn't actually make a difference in the battle because it's so easily healed through, it just shows up as big numbers on the score sheet.

[ademnus]

Any sensible nerf will be against your hybrid specs, and your bubble.

 

the class needs neither.

 

I'd accept a sorc nerf if they removed tracer missile and cut warrior dps by half.

[Natharon]

lol @ thinking ops were given something with their nerf, they weren't. The ability to chain CC came because they can't flat out justify cutting the knockdown in half without cutting the resolve from it in half. They gained nothing.

[KiranK]

I'd say troll thread is troll but... I still want Sorcs to get nerfed.