So you think other melee classes (with gap closers) have no ranged abilities and that makes operatives unique? OK. You also think we move at 130% speed while chasing someone in combat? OK. Need a better argument against MMO 101 melee design. Find a successful melee class, in any MMO, that does not have a gap closer. I don't know of any, but I would like to know if they even exist.

Yes, nitpicking here. If Merc/Commando are at a huge disadvantage because of lacking a gap closer (not sure why this would be useful to them) or interrupts, then I hope they are making these suggestions on their class forums too. Gap closer for melee is not a matter of haves and have nots... it is integral to melee class design. The alternative is to make suggestions to remove CC/snares from ranged classes since it effects operatives due to lack of a gap closer. Then gap closers would be over the top for those classes that have them.

Except that controlled burst is better for PvP. We'd be far better off having built-up burst since we can time it with interrupts and CC and having an execute. If you're trying to blow up healers - guarded at that, timing means a lot. Edit: Basically I am saying Assassins are better. Period. We NEED more in our toolset to stand out.

It truly baffles me when people say a melee class does not need a gap closer. You will quickly realize you need one when you get engaged by a competent ranged person out of stealth. They will not stand there and wait for you to get to them. They will not recklessly follow you around a pillar - they will keep a manageable distance all the while keeping you in combat and out of stealth. You live by cloaking screen or simply by not engaging in fights where others are around (go teamplay!).

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/03/06/prweb9254341.DTL The DFC report points out that the data is still preliminary given that SWTOR is so new. "While early signs are fairly positive, over the next few months the plan is to closely monitor usage and consumer reaction to gauge how well Star Wars: The Old Republic performs over time," said Miller. "The next three to six months will be critical to determine if the game can attract a large and sustained paying subscriber base." Make it or break it time, based on their research.

If they do, they sure have a lot of talent points to spend.

They will fix the bug and then nerf the class again because they "were found to be able to enter stealth more quickly than intended". There has been so many complaints of being stuck in combat as a large hurdle of playing an operative. Either they purposefully ignored them or they are incompetent. They need to assign class designers to monitor, post, and collect data from the class forums. It's a huge mismanagement issue here.

You're far too trusting of Bioware - 1. They released a "broken" class 2. They don't provide their metrics other than saying there is a magic formula 3. Their metrics seem to be very even numbers (e.g. 20% vs 18.3%) 4. Quotes of nerfing based on subjective data (not taking in to account skill/gear disparity, listening to forum whining) 5. Not understanding melee 101 (gap closer!) 6. Having other classes with the same damage output, stealth, and a lot more utility 7. Mirror class has huge issues with animation times hosing their ability timings I could go on, but I think Bioware just can't get this class right and it'll be stuck in beta-mode for a long time, at the expense of those who decided to roll a non-saber class. I am glad you enjoy it though - you are probably in the minority.

Operative... the class that never left beta.

I won't disagree totally. It was merely one example of how killing someone "in under 8 seconds" easily is a loaded statement. Based on your post, you're not killing many people in under 8 seconds either (prepping for being kited, using ranged).

My operative had full BM and I rarely was killing any equally geared folks in 5 GCDs, even with buff stacking. You need chain crits to get close to that and for them to not get off a knockback/CC between the knockdown and next GCD coming up for the stun. Only overpowered when I buff stack and get chain crits... can say the same about any class. Anyways, same story after each nerf. BW has yet to get the clue. Will remain unsubscribed and at this point, probably forever.

8 seconds had better be some undocumented change to 1.2 or it has been a bug forever.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"

From the interview with Georg: On the topic of nerfs, it’s obviously controversial if we decide we have to nerf something. I don’t expect people to throw us a parade. Ultimately, people are going to be very unhappy. Practical matter is you need a complete bird’s eye view of all eight classes — how they interplay with each other, how the entire health of the game is — to fully understand how things go. There is the small-minded approach of “so many people play Sorcerer, BioWare is never going to touch them.” No, that is not how it works. If we leave the Operative the ability to stun lock and kill people — yes, there aren’t many Operatives — but over the long term, that means people will quit the game cause it’s not fun. We have very measurable statistics that tell us if people lose a certain number of Warzones in a row being stun locked by a team of Operatives, then that might be part of that, and they will be not as likely to re-subscribe. We can nerf your class because it is unfun for others, but we'll do it in such a way that it's not fun for you. There are so many fun ways to solve this problem (if you even want to call it that....) and seeing BW choose the most unfun way is a bit revealing if anything. For example - a gap closer - every melee class has one in every mmo I have ever played. Except this one. Is this some revolutionary class that BW has made? Actually, no. Stealth DPS. Done many times before. Gap closers.

Saw this after my last post. You ARE NOT playing competent players if they break your 1.5s knockdown so you can use cloak to sleep dart them. Ridiculous.