jihn Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 MMO's are Meant to be repetitive, they cannot add endless different content. 3 of TOR planets = Skryim in size. I call bs on the size statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliff Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 EQ mindless you say? is that why without Alakazams community you could not and would have never found the vendors needed to collect your spells? or how about the method of questing an epic weapon? SWTOR is a joke get real Waiting for days to get a certain mob spawn only to be rushed by others when it finally spawned isn't a challenge. Sitting on the ground for a few minutes after every other fight and watching your health/mana bar go back to 100% isn't a challenge. Logging in, getting a group and fighting the same mobs for hours at an end until the group can move on to the next batch of mobs to get some more xp isn't a challenge. Want me to continue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDiggler Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 don't like the trolls tell you mmorpgs are not for you..... After all TOR was spose to break the mold and bring the single player fun of leveling into the mmorpg..... Sure they added alot of cutscenes, which the trolls will praise but if your going to attempt to blend single player and mmorpgs together at least get the questing right..... They might as well dropped the voice overs and cutscenes to because as it stands this games content doesn't match the worst of single players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJJAZZY Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 You must not have played many mmos then. The side quests in SWTOR are fantastic compared to some of the stuff I've played such as in Aion, Lineage 2, and others. Heck, even in LotRO I can't begin to tell you how sick I was of killing bears, boars, and wolves. I will say this though, I do wish there was more variety in the quests in SWTOR. Except for the class quests, they all feel pretty formulaic after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 It looks like MMO's aren't for you. You should keep playing Skyrim. in witch you usually kill x number of enemies (ok, you could just sneak past them), press z numbers of buttons to open a "secret" door and then kill a boss and loot him for whatever is needed to complete the mission... i dont get the whole "you need more variety in the side quests" arguments on these forums... most games that involve combat have these kinds of missions. Even KOtoR had them... They might not be explicitly "kill x number of baddies and kill the boss baddie then return" but most often they are dressed up as "go to spot A, press button (or talk to NPC), go to spot B, kill boss and get continuation of mission there" but you usually have to kill x number of enemies on the way anyway since you cant go around them. How is this different from MMO quests? well maby its because you have to go back to your questgiver and cant just keep slugging on in the same direction. I think thats mainly why people feel that these are "kill x number of baddies and come back" as opposed to most other singleplayer games' "go to point B from point A and kill any baddies inbetween" but theyre essentially the same :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maidel Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Not true. Some of the quests "templates" in Skyrim off the top of my head : 1) Kill boss in dungeon 2) Lure somebody to get sacrificed at some altar 3) Search abandoned house/fort whatever then fight to survive 4)Go to some npc to get something,either by stealing it,killing the npc,or persuade through dialogou to get it 5) pay money to somebody 6)rescue somebody from somewhere 7)kill somebody ( not boss in dungeon ) 8) fnd somebody who may or may not be in some dungeon 9) find something,usually just ONE THING which is reason enough for me to make this kind of quest much less repetetive. Honestly,which is more boring and repetetive, finding 1 thing or finding 7 things ? 10 ) escape from somewhere 11) listen to some old guy talk about magic,let him try it on you,then you demostrate your own magic prowess ( no,you dont kill him ) etc... As you can see,a lot of more variety You are having a laugh aren't you? All you did was provide more description to the quest. So let's see: 1) kill something 2) go collect someone 3) find area and kill baddies there 4) collect something by talking or killing 5) pay someone 6) kill some people and collect someone 7) kill someone who isn't a boss 8) search around aimlessly for someone 9) find 1 thing 10) escape 11) talk to someone Out of all of those things only 2 of them don't turn up in swtor and ones irrelavent and the other I'm so grateful for. I've never once paid credits in a quest, but that might happen in other classes and I've never searched around aimlessly for something, the game always tells you roughly where it is. I don't understand how anyone can possibly claim swtor has boring quests and other mmos are interresting when they are all the same! Even single player games are near identical, but sometimes have a puzzle element as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoMbY Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I've to say, I'm kinda disappointed, too. I think it should've been easy to add a little bit more variety to the quests. Maybe some puzzles, or guarding of something, etc. It would also be nice, if your decisions, your class, your standing, etc. would make more/some difference in the plot, or the way how to solve side quests. I would also like to see much more about the PvP. Maybe a planet, where you can conquer outposts and cities, and the longer one side holds them, the more the area changes (including for example more guarding NPCs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakushi Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Now problem I have with this is that single player rpg are not this much repetitive. Not even close. Take Skyrim for example. I just logged in to Skyrim and checked my quest log. I have about 20 quests there. NOT EVEN ONE quest involved killing random number of enemies or collectiong random number of crap nobody cares about. NOT ONE ! Whats saddens me is that bioware has made games which are not this boring or repetitive. Not one of their singeplayer games has side quests which consists only of those 3 templates I mentioned. Not dragon age,not mass effect none. Dont get me wrong,of course you have to kill enemies,its just in another games its not so blatantly in your face repetitive. In singleplayer games,you kill enemies to survive,to achieve some other objectives instead of killing enemies. There is no any counter which counts how many enemies you killed. Now I am not bashing just this game. I realize all MMORPGS I like this. I already mentioned WOW has same problem. What MMORPG genre needs to do is clear : They need to make sidequests on the level of singleplayer game. If single player games have managed to add variety to sidequesting,to make sidequest interesteing not just because of dialogue,but because of the stuff you actually do,I dont see why MMORPGs cant do the same things. What the problem exactly ? Huh? Did you just CompAre this game to SkyRim?? Also you cannot make and MMORPG anything like a Single player game... Its obvious that you have come from Console gaming. I see a lot of Console gamer frustrations and suggestions in your words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnisJunior Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 No, I am not trolling about the GTN, my main makes a good 20-30K almost every day. The fact that the GTN isn't a clone of WOW AH might have prevented you from actually using it properly, like most of the game. Face it, TOR isn't for you, it's for people who like GAMES for FUN, not for epeen powerlevellers for which the 'REAL' game starts at 50. You should go back to tardcraft ASAP. Pretty please? I don't like playing a game if people like you play it. It sort of ... depreciate it... Why on EARTH are you bragging about 20 or 30k a day dude. That is one 7 minute daily space mission worth of credits. Did you forget a zero? Or is your main level 15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chub Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Seeing that the main quests in a game such as WoW are like kill 20 of these and then 20 of these I don't think the sidequests in SWTOR are that bad seeing that they are optional. But that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maidel Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I've to say, I'm kinda disappointed, too. I think it should've been easy to add a little bit more variety to the quests. Maybe some puzzles, or guarding of something, etc. It would also be nice, if your decisions, your class, your standing, etc. would make more/some difference in the plot, or the way how to solve side quests. I would also like to see much more about the PvP. Maybe a planet, where you can conquer outposts and cities, and the longer one side holds them, the more the area changes (including for example more guarding NPCs). Sorry to jump on you here, but pretty much all of those things do happen. I'll admit there aren't any 'puzzle' quests, it's not particularly starwarsy anyway, but I have had 'guard' quests, either guarding a spot or a person. Also your choices DO make a difference, my choices in quests have clearly changed the outcome of quests later, the problem is without seeing what other people did its hard to always realise it. But the ones where it has been obvious for me is where I have completed one quest (saving a strike team) only to have that team turn up at the end of a later quest and help me with the boss. I've also had the oppertunity to kill numerous sith and passed over them for the lightside points, only for that sith to reappear and help me in a later boss fight, or send me items in the mail, one even turned up in a later Jedi council scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) I'll admit there aren't any 'puzzle' quests, it's not particularly starwarsy anyway, but I have had 'guard' quests, either guarding a spot or a person. Also your choices DO make a difference, my choices in quests have clearly changed the outcome of quests later trooper has some traps to disarm and stealth as bonus quests, compared to the jedi knight where everything is "go in and kill X" and once in a while persuade someone instead of killing him (which yes, makes him show up again, but I'm pretty sure if not him someone else would have shown up later). and I think he means the the choices do not change anything. what it changes is if you get a mail or a npc shows up. the outcome is still the same. It's like the choice of taking the train or the bus, but you still end up in the same city. in the end, it changes nothing. as for quests in general, all western MMOs did was to exchange the mobgrind for a questgrind ("look ma, I got a reason to kill all that mobs now!"). but seriously, how many damsels in distress can you save before it gets old? runescape did quests right, but OTOH, how would you fill the rest of the game (besides mob- or skillgrind?). Edited February 19, 2012 by Graburr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drednor Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 What worries me is when they are going to make future expansions, it must cost a fortune to do the voice acting, which i think is a waste of time and resources if u ask me, would rathr it that mney and time be spent on better gameplay etc, and I think eventually it they just wont make expansion the way say EQ does because it was just cost too much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) What worries me is when they are going to make future expansions, it must cost a fortune to do the voice acting expect the odd questgiver with rehashed text and your char using a lot of rehashed text (which already is the case, there are some lines I hear pretty often, especially in bonus questlines). Edited February 19, 2012 by Graburr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) I think that before TOR a lot of people didn't realize that when it comes to side-quests, not knowing the rationalization behind them is often actually better. I mean, let's fact it; we know why they're there. They are there to direct us to kill something specific or go somewhere specific so that the devs can use quests to throttle the rate of levelling. Basically, they're there to give us something to do other than run in circles in town or grind mobs in a group. When you start trying to add context to them and you actually don't skip reading/hearing about that context, you start to see just how ridiclously illogical and formulaic the whole experience is. Edited February 19, 2012 by Mannic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 When you start trying to add context to them and you actually don't skip reading/hearing about that context, you start to see just how ridiclously illogical and formulaic the whole experience is. this. one of the reasons I can't understand why people celebrated the dialogs like the 2nd coming of jesus. so in other games people don't read the questtexts with "random reason 354 to kill 10 boars", but as soon you get a cutscene where a random npc tells you to kill 10 boars because of random reason 354, it's all of a sudden 10 times better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudgersmith Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I agree with OP post, the quests yes theyhave voice acted npcs but they all have you killing 3-4 mobs to get to the quest goal. No variety at all. Very disapointed with the quests tbh. Actually disapointed with the game as a whole. Should have less voice acting and better stories. Class quest is good but it feels very linear, just a way of getting you to go to eqch planet as such and parts of it seem very pointless. Comparing to WOW. Yes wow has same repetitive kill x amount of this and x amount of that but at least u get to fly planes, drive tanks, escorting npcs, more interesting stories, blowup huge amaounts of mobs at once, theres more reward for questing in wow. The harrison jones questline was just simply epic, we need more stuff like that in swtor. Sooo much more character in the npcs even though they arnt voice acted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megaphys Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I am fan of rpg games and have played pretty much all rpg games out there,including jrpgs on consoles.I never was fun of MMORPGs for one simple reason-I found them more boring and repetitive then single player games. I tried playing wow quit about lv40 when I realized all sidequest involved doing same stuff over and over. I am big fan of bioware and loved both kotor 1 and 2. So I just had to buy this game eventhrough it was mmorpg. I hoped bioware might avoid some of the pitfalls those kind of game usually have. Boy was I dissapointed after only couple of hours of gameplay. This game pretty much has 3 quests and thats it. They are just repeated hundred of times,with different dialogue.Quests are : 1) Kill random number of enemies 2) Press random number of switches,or other objects in the world. 3) Kill random number of enemies and then loot them to find random number of random things. Whats worse even main class quests involve these 3 quests with addiotion of freeing somebody or killing some boss. Now problem I have with this is that single player rpg are not this much repetitive. Not even close. Take Skyrim for example. I just logged in to Skyrim and checked my quest log. I have about 20 quests there. NOT EVEN ONE quest involved killing random number of enemies or collectiong random number of crap nobody cares about. NOT ONE ! Whats saddens me is that bioware has made games which are not this boring or repetitive. Not one of their singeplayer games has side quests which consists only of those 3 templates I mentioned. Not dragon age,not mass effect none. Dont get me wrong,of course you have to kill enemies,its just in another games its not so blatantly in your face repetitive. In singleplayer games,you kill enemies to survive,to achieve some other objectives instead of killing enemies. There is no any counter which counts how many enemies you killed. Now I am not bashing just this game. I realize all MMORPGS I like this. I already mentioned WOW has same problem. What MMORPG genre needs to do is clear : They need to make sidequests on the level of singleplayer game. If single player games have managed to add variety to sidequesting,to make sidequest interesteing not just because of dialogue,but because of the stuff you actually do,I dont see why MMORPGs cant do the same things. What the problem exactly ? uhhh im not disagreeiing with your premise of having more interesting quests, but single player rpgs in general are not really that different, almost every quest in skyrim follows the same formula that you just talked about. kill bandit leader clear out bandit hideout. find X book/instrument/object in bandit hideout specifically i remember multiple clear out bandit cave quests, and i specifically remember the find the instruments in bandit caves, so its definately in there. As far as this game, there really arent that many real quests that ask you to just kill people randomly. there is a ton of bonus quests, but thats just bonus quests, you never have to complete a bonus quest to progress, its completely optional, in reality, most quests are optional. On my stealth charachter i routinely ignore bonus quests, and only kill people i need to complete the objectives. The main dif in skyrim is there is no leveling system, and the game adapts to your level, so they had no need of giving you exp for special objectives, you basically do quests for exploration and fame, and some way to train your skills without realizing you are training your skills. they had more exploration, in that you would find cool things in weird places sometimes, like shouts, or an interesting side quest, but essentially every rpg formula is kill little things kill big things interact with objects/find objects they all just hide it differently, or may make the experience feel fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eklipzze Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Thats eaht MMO's are kill stuff, loot stuff, kill more stuff! Thats the model for most if not all MMO's. Looks like MMO's are not for you mate! Yeah, I have played over a dozen MMOs and that is what they ALL are.... the same type of quests over and over. The only difference here is that I don't have to make them even more boring by reading a wall of text. The voice acting reduces my pain a bit. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megaphys Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I agree with OP post, the quests yes theyhave voice acted npcs but they all have you killing 3-4 mobs to get to the quest goal. No variety at all. Very disapointed with the quests tbh. Actually disapointed with the game as a whole. Should have less voice acting and better stories. Class quest is good but it feels very linear, just a way of getting you to go to eqch planet as such and parts of it seem very pointless. Comparing to WOW. Yes wow has same repetitive kill x amount of this and x amount of that but at least u get to fly planes, drive tanks, escorting npcs, more interesting stories, blowup huge amaounts of mobs at once, theres more reward for questing in wow. The harrison jones questline was just simply epic, we need more stuff like that in swtor. Sooo much more character in the npcs even though they arnt voice acted. i disagree here, i think overall, you specifically just dont care why you have to do anything, or what the context is. Overall i think this game does a pretty good job with context, which gives you a much better feeling of the environment you are in, and why things happen. If you think of all quests as kill this trash kill this boss interact with this item, sure, but if you think of it as, work your way deep into the base of some gang, find out why they are attacking soldiers, disable their weapons, and defeat the imperial Captain who was behind it all, that was actually a much more interesting sequence of events, for me, for you it was just an annoyance you did so you could get experience. Fact is anything a game does story related or context related, and lore related probably isnt something you find that interesting, which probably means you dont like the RPG aspect of this game, you probably prefer the pvp, or just a game where you can get stronger. to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtusesDorne Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 mmmm yes the endless grind. Well at least for me the story gives context to the grind and i enjoy unless i have to go back to the same area i was before and fight the same mobs. The levelling system... well all/most MMO's have it. its like a carrot on a stick that we chase for hours until we finally get it. It keeps us entertained until we have eaten it and then complain as to why there is no more carrot left. Maybe they should put in title system or something the whole concept of levelling is i guess to keep people in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairMagpie Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I agree somewhat with the OP. More variety in objectives wouldn't have hurt. It seems to me they were somewhat limited in what they could actually implement with their technologies. I am saying that to give them the benefit of doubt not wanting to accuse them directly of lack of creativity which comes next. For instance I really liked the quest in Tatooine where you were on a timer for a quest. It would be nice if instead of entering a code via click you would actually have to memorize and enter it in first place. It would be nice if you could actually *fail* quests. It would be nice if you could actually have more interactivity with objects within the world. You know instead of sticking a lightsabre into a console, how the option to actually disable it (adding bonus xp) over the standard method of "sticking a lightsabre into it" How about quests where you have to kill your bonus objective would about getting to the objective without killing anyone? You would get an item where you would have to incapacitate opponents but still would have limited charges only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissakias Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 funniest thread of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaviourEQ Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I am big fan of bioware but this game is really terrible and unoptomized in every aspect..from code, to the loot tables, to the content. ^there i fixed that part for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxmendacium Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 You obviously haven't played wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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