Vydor_HC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I've always wondered what PvP is like on the RP servers. We don't hear much about it. I've always played on RP servers, and the competition is generally really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 odd, I guess I just never noticed. But I also don't play a game to pretend to be something I'm not. I play a game because it's fun. Role playing is extremely fun for a lot of people, hence this genre of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamajawn Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I've always played on RP servers, and the competition is generally really good. Thanks for the info, I've been considering rolling an alt on one. How's the faction balance on your server, and what server is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Thanks for the info, I've been considering rolling an alt on one. How's the faction balance on your server, and what server is it? I'm on Lord Adrass, the balance is in favor of the Imps and they squash us when they zerg, but that's not always the case. The Republic side has some good players and when we get organized it can be a lot of fun. But, I'd say its like most other servers, the Imps have the advantage with gear and numbers and it really is a underdog battle for Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamajawn Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm on Lord Adrass, the balance is in favor of the Imps and they squash us when they zerg, but that's not always the case. The Republic side has some good players and when we get organized it can be a lot of fun. But, I'd say its like most other servers, the Imps have the advantage with gear and numbers and it really is a underdog battle for Republic. Sounds good, I'd really like to play something besides Huttball and would roll a Republic character this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Santa Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) i also like how people call quitters griefers. lets examine why the ones who stick around call them that... quitters are leaving losing matchs, leaving the people who stick around to be run over without resistance. hence they are griefers, yes? hmmm, seems to be a logical fallacy somewhere in there... a) the match starts. the quitters see the match going south and turning into a loss. b) the quitters leave, the ones who remain get run over even more easily than they already were. c) the match is lost and the ones who were left behind are angry. if the match was going well, the quitters wouldn't be leaving. they are only leaving when the match turns into a lost cause. which means, the quitters aren't really griefers. all the people complaining about the quitters are just pissed that they're losing all the time, and looking for a scape goat to pass the blame to, instead of manning up and learning the tricks to winning more often. bottom line, the quitters are not the reason the ones staying behind are losing all the time, as the matches they leave are already lost before they even leave. if anything, the quitters are just speeding things up, so both you and them waste less time in lost causes. adding a debuff penalty isn't going to do anything to make things better because the reason you lose has nothing to do with the quitters. Your logic is half-true. A.) People see a match going south so instead of trying to turn it around, they quit. That's what i've observed a lot of times, and half the time a better player comes in and we win the match. (If just one person quits) Yet you agree that people quitting and causing those who stay losses results in anger, how is that not greifing other players? Edited February 21, 2012 by Evil_Santa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdarpa Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Your logic is half-true. A.) People see a match going south so instead of trying to turn it around, they quit. That's what i've observed a lot of times, and half the time a better player comes in and we win the match. (If just one person quits) Yet you agree that people quitting and causing those who stay losses results in anger, how is that not greifing other players? Likewise, people with poor gear and no will to work toward the objective causes a loss and results in anger. Using your poor logic, this is also griefing. A.) I see bad players with bad gear not working toward the objective. I quit. 1 well geared person working toward the objective is not equal to 3 poorly geared people working toward the objective. Surely as someone who speaks about "logic", you have the logic to understand that. 1 well-geared player is worth 12.5% of a win. 3 poorly geared or non-objective minded individuals are worth 37.5% of a loss. All your fallacy aside, I'd like you to go ahead and explain exactly how you would plan to successfully "turn a match around" when 4 players are farming medals in a warzone and ignoring objectives, 2 players have bad gear, the enemy team has completed half of the objectives needed to win with ease, and you and 1 other player are properly geared and working toward the objective. In this scenario, 6/8 members of the enemy team are well geared and working toward the objective, and 2 players are poorly geared and not working toward the objective. The enemy team is a full PUG, as is your team. Be precise, and don't skip a detail. Edited February 21, 2012 by drdarpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmy_DB Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Played an Alderann match yesterday. Around 5-6 of our side quit. One straight away because people ignored him, 2 soon after when the imps held 2 turrets, 2 a bit later when they held 3 turrets (surprise - 3 men down and all). So, once all the bads were gone, the new joiners came in, all the turrets went green and we won. Moral of the story? Those who won't stay, won't ever learn how to survive when the cards are stacked against them nor how to turn around a losing game when the opportunity comes. In short, they will always be bads. Edited February 21, 2012 by Lemmy_DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdarpa Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Played an Alderann match yesterday. Around 5-6 of our side quit. One straight away because people ignored him, 2 soon after when the imps held 2 turrets, 2 a bit later when they held 3 turrets (surprise - 3 men down and all). So, once all the guys that didn't want to put up with my piss-poor playing and medal farming were gone, the new joiners came in, all the turrets went green and we won. Moral of the story? Us bads got lucky and leached off of 6 people. HOORAY FOR WELFARE!!!1!!111one!!11! WINNING!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!! So you came here to brag about how you and the other bad leached off of 6 other people. Grats. Edited February 21, 2012 by drdarpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Played an Alderann match yesterday. Around 5-6 of our side quit. One straight away because people ignored him, 2 soon after when the imps held 2 turrets, 2 a bit later when they held 3 turrets (surprise - 3 men down and all). So, once all the bads were gone, the new joiners came in, all the turrets went green and we won. Moral of the story? Those who won't stay, won't ever learn how to survive when the cards are stacked against them nor how to turn around a losing game when the opportunity comes. In short, they will always be bads. That's why I say if people want to get out of a warzone, just let them go, don't try and force them to stay because they will not be in the mood to fight for the team. At least with new comers you have a 50/50 shot at them willing to participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmy_DB Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 That's why I say if people want to get out of a warzone, just let them go, don't try and force them to stay because they will not be in the mood to fight for the team. At least with new comers you have a 50/50 shot at them willing to participate. /Agree. They still deserve a kick in the nuts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nureddin Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don´t mind if people quits the battle when someone takes his place. The problem is that last Sunday I tried to PvP three times in a row and for three times the game ended because there were not enough players. When the empire was losing, empire players quit. When republic was loosing, republic players quit. In the end some players could not play because some players keep getting out. After three times I decided to do something else. The best way to avoid a PvP player to quit is to forbid him to join another pvp fight, even if this is only for 2 pvp battles time (30-40min). Any other punishment is void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I don´t mind if people quits the battle when someone takes his place. The problem is that last Sunday I tried to PvP three times in a row and for three times the game ended because there were not enough players. When the empire was losing, empire players quit. When republic was loosing, republic players quit. In the end some players could not play because some players keep getting out. After three times I decided to do something else. The best way to avoid a PvP player to quit is to forbid him to join another pvp fight, even if this is only for 2 pvp battles time (30-40min). Any other punishment is void. People have a right to be upset when others leave, but they shouldn't take it out on the players, the target of their animus should be Bioware and all the reasons in the game that encourage people to leave. We don't need to punish other players, Bioware needs to change the system so that leaving is not beneficial. And I think they are taking steps in that direction in 1.2 from what I've read. Edited February 21, 2012 by Vydor_HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamajawn Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) People have a right to be upset when others leave, but they shouldn't take it out on the players, the target of their animus should be Bioware and all the reasons in the game that encourage people to leave. We don't need to punish other players, Bioware needs to change the system so that leaving is not beneficial. And I think they are taking steps in that direction in 1.2 from what I've read. That's my take on things as well. The incentive system has to be fixed because that's what many players respond to. They don't play for "honor" or "the team" because the game doesn't really provide an incentive to do so, at least in their minds. Having better incentives to play through matches will help some. Relief from the pressures of daily wins will also help. I'd like to see these changes made prior to implementing a punishment for leaving to see how they affect the game. As I've said before, I fear the unintended consequences of AFKrs and the like if a debuff is put into effect. However, there will still be differences of opinion between gear progression PvPrs and those who favor "naked" PvP. I think that difference will segment the MMO community for some time until a company finds a way to resolve it. Edited February 21, 2012 by Bamajawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaidan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Your logic is half-true. A.) People see a match going south so instead of trying to turn it around, they quit. That's what i've observed a lot of times, and half the time a better player comes in and we win the match. (If just one person quits) Yet you agree that people quitting and causing those who stay losses results in anger, how is that not greifing other players? if the definition of griefing is causing anger in other players... i would be just as justified to call the people who incited me to leave the match early griefers because their lack of coordination, teamwork and situational awareness made me angry. im not saying your wrong, in that someone leaving opens a spot for someone with the patience to try and turn the match around, and that does happen sometimes. more often than not, in my experience when i have stuck around, that hasn't happened though. its a numbers game... there are more bad players than good, and chances are that spot would be filled with a bad player instead of a good one. now... to be clear, without a deserter penalty, that sort of scenario, where person A leaves and person B shows up and turns things around, can happen. put in a deserter penalty, and the majority of people who leave (the leeches, not the folks who are looking for a good match but didn't find it)... won't leave, they'll just find a corner and jump in it every minute or so, and you'll never get someone who wants to put in the effort in to take their spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaidan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Played an Alderann match yesterday. Around 5-6 of our side quit. One straight away because people ignored him, 2 soon after when the imps held 2 turrets, 2 a bit later when they held 3 turrets (surprise - 3 men down and all). So, once all the bads were gone, the new joiners came in, all the turrets went green and we won. Moral of the story? Those who won't stay, won't ever learn how to survive when the cards are stacked against them nor how to turn around a losing game when the opportunity comes. In short, they will always be bads. no offense... but you're exactly the kind of player i leave matches because of. you didn't start winning till other, better players showed up to carry you. if it hadn't been for better players showing up in the match, you would have lost. if i had been in that match and never left, either A) you would've dragged me down (with no hope of salvation because there's no open spot for a better player to make up for you) or B) i would've carried you, which i honestly have little desire to do... its just not worth the effort on my part. the only lesson you learned was to rely on other, better players supporting you. since i can't make you leave the match, id rather just leave you to your fate and move on. if other people want to carry you to a win, so be it, no skin off my back, except it just promotes you never learning and still polluting the pvp queues with your inability to win on your own merits. edit: there are occasions where i'll stick around in a match. ive been doing this long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a newbie and noob, usually within the first few moments of a game. when i see the way they pick their targets, where they move, their situational awareness and ability rotations, i can pick out the ones with potential and the ones who are just going to drag the team down. the former im willing to tolerate, they just don't know better, and may actually learn from the example of more experienced players... the latter (usually the ones who post on forums whining about one thing or another), are a blight on the pvp community and are to be avoided at the first sign of their existence, for the sake of my own sanity. Edited February 21, 2012 by Jaidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I play PvP in two different situations, one with a group of 4 premade from my guild, and secondly solo when there's minimal guild activity and usually to complete my weekly/dailies. When I play in my group of 4, we play to win obviously but don't generally quit unless we come across something out of the ordinary (speed hacking or someone helping the other side etc). That said, we also usually win nearly all these games, as we are on Vent and know each other's game styles. If we do lose, this is normally due to the other 4 players on our side being very poor and/or a very good Republic side. When I play solo, I'm not looking for Valor, I'm looking for wins and this is fundamentally different to the premade mentality mostly due to Bioware's crappy reward system. I will leave a group if it gets steamrolled for the first 2 points in Huttball, or if we go 2 bases down in Alderaan or if we lose a gate instantly in Voidstar. I don't care if anyone hates that, because I've played more full games than I've left early due to my premade situation. Now the unfortunate thing is that the premades are getting less and less frequent (now about once a week) due to people leaving the game (and there has been around 30 people leave the game in my guild) or having reached BM rank, can't be bothered anymore. So I'm left to mostly solo, which means I will leave a lot of games. I suspect there are a lot of people in the same situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenrocNewDawn Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) One thing is sure, if you lose and people start to leave and you turn it into a victory after others join , the players you are getting as replacements are better then the players that left. I hope this is clear for everyone w/o further explanations. On the other hand is hard to judge a player's skill when he fights outnumbered solely on the fact that his underdog team is losing. I also agree that the final objective of human competition is winning. But in order to win one have to compete and admit the possibility of defeat. Also the best champions out there are the ones that love what they do and they are not doing it just for the money. Edited February 21, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkniner Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Simple fact is now, If i can't leave, I WILL AFK. Now the spot I would have left for someone wanting to join when I leave will be filled by me doing **** all. Happy? nice fix bioware. Same here. That or I will still leave, and just AFK off whatever bogus penalty they put on me. I do not have time to waste on losing games because some nub wants to run around trying to duel every sith in the warzone instead of trying to win. Some of us have busy lives, and cannot sit on Mommy's computer all night playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaidan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 One thing is sure, if you lose and people start to leave and you turn it into a victory after others join , the players you are getting as replacements are better then the players that left. I hope this is clear for everyone w/o further explanations. On the other hand is hard to judge a player's skill when he fights outnumbered solely on the fact that his underdog team is losing. I also agree that the final objective of human competition is winning. But in order to win one have to compete and admit the possibility of defeat. Also the best champions out there are the ones that love what they do and they are not doing it just for the money. im self-aware enough to know my limitations. there are times i get outplayed, no ifs and's or buts about it. sure, those turn arounds after i left were because other players better than i showed up to take my place and were willing to carry the players who were worse than me. not being the best doesn't bother me. knowing that the reason those turn arounds happened wasn't because the baddies got better, but because people better than myself took my spot... that's priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronnick Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Me too! If my team is getting steamrolled...SCREW IT! Im OUTTA there! OR /afk it! WHO enjoys losing? If you ARE going to lose... Which we ALL KNOW is going to happen after a certain amount of time in the game... There is NO reason to continue.. UNLESS you are a MASOCHIST! I'll stick around in fairly "even" matches... OR ones I am winning... BUT if the OTHER team has COMPLETE control of the game and is ENSURED of the win. There is absolutely ZERO reason OR incentive to stick around... again UNLESS you get your kicks from losing... I will be better off re-queuing and hopefully get a more "evenly" balanced match. NO I DO NOT EXPECT TO WIN ALL THE TIME! BUT NOR DO I feel obligated to play a losing match through to the end... the "losing" team may as well ALL quit and concede defeat.. rather than WASTE time we have paid for to have fun... NOT to have a miserable time getting steamrolled. SO.. What people are saying is: "Its OK if there are four 50th level players playing against four 12 level players" The four 12 level players CAN WIN if they try hard enough or play well enough!...SO they should stick out the entire match." (Even though they are currently losing and are completely certain to lose the match.) SCREW THAT NOISE! The losing team should quit as quickly as possible to get to the NEXT match they have a EVEN chance of winning... Like a team hooked up on VENT playing against a team NOT on vent is STILL UNFAIR! The "vent" team have a MUCH greater chance of winning and steamrolling" the other players.. AGAIN the second that a "steamroll" is in play.. I as well as MOST people will naturally NOT want to hang around getting their faces pushed into the mud over and over and over again.. YOU HAVE TO BE A MASOCHIST TO ENJOY LOSING! AND you MUST have SADISTIC tendencies if you really "enjoy" "steamrolling a weaker team. I personally PREFER matches where the game is SO even... that NO ONE knows who is going to win until the game is actually over... NOW THAT.... is FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 YOU HAVE TO BE A MASOCHIST TO ENJOY LOSING! Only if losing is somehow painful to you or causes anguish...some of us just roll with it and enjoy playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRamette Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It annoys me too, what I do not like is being thrown into a losing match already. If I que up and start a match and lose I can handle that, I just get annoyed at being thrown in a match already underway that is lost before I get into it. That being said I have never left a match, in fact I have no idea how you do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) once again, the general feeling in this thread is that these losses are caused by quitters. 9 times out of 10, again judging by the responses people have posted here, the quitters aren't leaving until the match is already all but lost... so the quitters aren't the reason for the loss and a penalty isn't going to fix things 9 times out of 10. If people left once the game was "unwinnable" I'd agree. The problem is, people leave the very instant the game isn't going their way. Huttball: Game starts, a minute in the other team scores, BAM 5 people leave. Rest of the game is often a steamroll since one team is just stuck with a cycle of people joining, seeing they're losing, leaving right away, repeat. Alderaan: Game starts, each team gets one turret, then fights over the third. Team that doesn't get the third turret has half of their team quit instantly. Although with the tempo of this game and the way the rezzes work, this is is actually easy to salvage. Voidstar: Game starts, eventually the attackers plant a bomb, half of the defending team quits instantly, making it a steamroll since the newcomers will usually be stuck behind a rez wall or one door behind the battle. I guess the way the daily/weekly quests work encourages people to do this, but damn. Most of these people probably queue up hoping to get lucky and join a game where they're already winning or something, or at least hope to get carried by a premade. Just quitting the very instant they're not getting their way is...well, it's just pretty sad. It annoys me too, what I do not like is being thrown into a losing match already. If I que up and start a match and lose I can handle that, I just get annoyed at being thrown in a match already underway that is lost before I get into it. That being said I have never left a match, in fact I have no idea how you do that. And yeah, that's another aspect of it. Oh, someone doesn't want to deal with the loss that they're at least part of causing, so they quit and let some other poor sucker take the queue and find himself in a losing game. Nice. If nothing else, the impact it can have on at least one - but probably as many as 8 - other players is a good reason to impose some sort of penalty for just quitting. Edited February 22, 2012 by Bovinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't have time to be farmed in a WZ all day with nothing to show for it. All this will change is when I leave a WZ were being steamrolled in is I'll log out and do something else, if I do this often enough I might just forget to resub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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