heh, when you get quests that require you to infect other players so you can complete the quest... it actually really is all about you. its about you disrupting their playstyle and enjoyment just so you can get a reward... it is absolutely about being a selfish *****... because you enjoy the event, others must be forced to participate as well. ****... that... ****.

ive found the best immunization is simply not to log in while the event is on-going. course, if these events keep occurring regularly, that might lead to a cancellation of my subscriber status... but hey, it seems that alienating paying customers is the new business model. after all, introducing features that people didn't like worked for swg didn't it? didn't it?!

like i said... piss poor business decision.

since i refuse to be forced to participate in this event, and especially in the negative aspect of getting infected, i simply don't log in. let the folks who will happily force their playstyle onto others enjoy the game during the event, i won't be forced to participate by being anyone's plague victim. im a sub, which doubly annoys me about this, since i feel i have no other option but not to play while the event is on-going... enough of these sort of events and my sub status will get cancelled, as its not worth the money to pay for a game that forces me to participate in events i don't find enjoyable. piss poor business decision for a company whose game isn't living up to pre-release expectations and is suffering from a lack of paying subscribers.

my experience with these events is completely negative. i was there when wow had the ZG plague... and i didn't find that at all enjoyable when it was unintentional. i certainly don't find it enjoyable now that is is intentional... im forced to take part in the event, and more particularly, the negative aspects of the event, even if i don't want to. that is unacceptable on any level. my issue is that because of this damn plague my playstyle has been completely disrupted. im an avid pvp'r, and there is nothing worse than experiencing a damn coughing fit at a clutch moment in a fight. yes, i understand that there are vaccines... but the principle is that i should not be intentionally handicapped by the game, i should not have to buy a vaccine simply to play as i normally do (normally, im not even asking for anything special... just that i can experience the gameplay i enjoy 99% of the time). sucks, but because i refuse to pay out to rectify what i essentially see as a terrible mistake by the devs, i simply won't be taking part in this event, or even logging into the game while it is going on. ill happily relog after it ends... but as a subscriber who's been a part of this game since the beta, there's only so much i can take before ill eventually say, "**** it" its not worth it. if these continue, ill probably go like many others have and simply become a ftp player... but even then, if these sort of disruptive events continue, its likely ill stop participating even in that capacity. to make an analogy, my experience with this event feels like if my internet provider intentionally introduced a feature that created a service outage without any sort of compensation for the irritation and annoyance. yea, its a minor gripe, but minor gripes add up over time.

Because, OP, I like to play with people who are intelligent enough to use the English language properly. If the people who aren't playing this game, and are going elsewhere, are like you, and can't be bothered to type "you people" and say "u ppl" instead... that's all the more reason for me to stay here instead of finding another game.

and where is your consideration for my fun? you continue to play poorly and make the game unenjoyable for me... and demand i be punished for going elsewhere to find fun in the game that i pay for... but you continue to call me selfish for it?

you wanted a bunch of people to feed your ego and tell you you're right. but the quitters are the egotistical and selfish ones, right?

same question to you. are you aware there are other people on your team and you are ruining their match when you ignore the objectives? you have no regard for them? call it an excuse, or whatever... but if you are so narcissistic that you can't even comprehend that the other side's argument may be valid, then neither you, nor your opinion deserves any consideration. if you aren't willing to consider the other side's opinion, then your opinion warrants the same treatment in return.

so what sort of punishment is fitting for you? im wiling to try my hardest at the start of every match? if you aren't doing the same thing, aren't you just as guilty of poor sportmanship as i am when i quit or afk? the difference between you and i is that i start the match doing my best, you start it doing your worst. and when i start playing on the same level as you... you dare to want to punish me? that's punishing the victim, not the guilty.

you call others selfish... yet when i start a match, always giving it my all, at least at first, and you are content to sit back and **** around and ignore objectives... you disrespect me and the effort im giving to win. newsflash... i don't quit, or stop trying, until it becomes obvious that you, and the other selfish players like you, do not appreciate my efforts towards winning, because you only care about playing the way you want to. yet you call myself and others selfish for leaving. people like you only call something teamwork when others are doing your job for you, so you can sit back and jerk off and still reap the rewards of other people's hard work, while not putting in the same effort yourself. hypocrisy for the win.

as far as im concerned the people who incite me to leave matches are far worse than me leaving. if they were putting forth the effort to win, not to mindlessly deathmatch and ignore objectives, then i'd put forth the effort as well. ill start every match giving it my best. but as soon as my randomly selected teammates decide to show me that they obviously do not care about winning, then i stop caring about winning. once i stop caring about winning i stop caring about medals and coms. right now ive got the luxury of simply leaving the match and hoping the next one has people who share my views about putting in the same level of effort. but if a deserter penalty is put in, then im not going to leave. the whole reason i leave is because my team proves to me, through their lack of effort, that my effort is neither appreciated nor deserved by them. giving me a deserter debuff is like putting the raep victim in jail. no way in hell will i do that. do i feel bad about afk'ing in a corner after a deserter penalty is implemented? nope. reason being, that's the reward my incompetent teammates earned through their lack of ability. id prefer to just be able to leave and continue to spend my time how i find it fun, but if i must stay in a bad match... then ill only give as much as my teammates give, which if it was a match i was going to leave anyways, equals me standing in a corner waiting out the loss. oh, and as for calling me selfish for leaving, or going afk if forced to by a deserter debuff... i call you selfish. i call you selfish because you want me to keep putting in high levels of effort, while you don't do the same. if you want me to try, then you dam well better try also. don't you dare call me selfish without being willing to do the same thing or more than i am (because, again, i start every match willing to try my best... its only after you show me you don't feel the same that i stop doing my best), while at the same time implying you're some sort of paragon of altruism. hypocrisy is the worst sin.

yet the bad players (aka... just about every single person who queues up nowadays) treats it like that. arena, or any mere deathmatch style pvp, is just dumbed down pvp. i mean, lets look at it objectively. you've got the deathmatchers already, people for whom any objective above and beyond "kill it with fire!!!111" is too complex and confusing. now, if your only goal is to get more people pvping... sure, arena is awesome. but if you want quality pvp that involves actual strategy (im talking long term strategy that extends far beyond simply, if i use this ability, i need to use this one next, then that one). lets be honest here, most of the people who left wow because of its crappy pvp system, do not want a carbon copy of the same pvp system that disgusted them in the first place.

you're right. i am being an ***. but only when presented with these kids who demand i be punished for leaving. im perfectly happy to let them fail on their own by dropping out of the match. but if their whining leads to a deserter debuff... then im not going to take that debuff. ill just afk. making me take a debuff because of their lack of ability is like putting the raep victim in prison. ive explained it in other posts. i understand the difference between lack of effort and lack of skill. unfortunately, after doing this sort of thing for far longer than i should admit to, ive come to the conclusion that bads will always be bad. no amount of explanation, cajoling or bribery will ever make them wake up and get better. the only thing that will make them get better is themselves. nothing i do will change how they play. its all up to them. as for the gear factor. even more blatantly obvious about their lack of caring and effort if they're going into a match wearing lvl 48 oranges instead of at least mere recruit gear. yea... like i said, its on them to show me they care even a little about winning. if they show me something that they want to win instead of just farm medals or deathmatch... then ill show them something productive in return. if not... well, plenty of corners to wait out the loss in.

yep. the good players will see me putting in an effort and doing everything i can to help them win. the bad players will see me sitting in a corner. i don't particularly care what the bad players think about me.

i like how the op points out that maras/sents aren't good for playing the objectives in warzones. i also like how most people gloss over this and just focus on how quickly they die to maras/sents. just goes to show how many people focus on the wrong things in pvp. thank you, op, for showing me that there are still at least a few decent pvp'rs with the right mindset out there.

once again, do your homework before chiming in. said it before, and ill say it once again. if its a close match, where the team of randoms i get stuck with actually makes an effort, ill give them my best.... even if its a loss. a well fought loss is fine and can be fun, not as fun as a win, but still fun. a curb stomping is not. ill start every match doing my best. which, even though you're obviously too frustrated and biased by your own opinion to realize, is exactly what just about everyone who says they leave a match does as well. but once its apparent my effort is being wasted due to the incompetence, and/or simple lack of caring, of my randomly selected teammates, im not going to put in any more effort than they do. which basically means standing in the corner. as for a vote-kick. not concerned. first, any team bad enough to make me want to sit and afk is going to be so uncoordinated that the chances of them getting enough votes together to kick me is pretty slim. and second... no vote-kick system will instantly remove you from the group. ill have, at worst, 30 seconds to find an enemy and do a basic autoattack to negate the vote. so yea... all you have to do is show some effort to help yourself and ill help you. but if you're just that hopeless, and show me that you can not carry your own weight, and even more importantly, don't even care to try to carry your own weight, then you are no longer worth my time helping. you show me that its all about you, and my time and effort changes from it being a team game to being one all about me. sorry kids, but the ball is in your court. you'll get what you give. edit: a little confused here now that i think about it. you all keep whining about how i don't put in the effort (even though im making it very clear im going to put in the same effort towards winning as you do)... but you keep insisting on adding penalties that do nothing but encourage me to find ways to not do so. wouldn't it be smarter to find the root cause and correct that? i mean, if you want me to try harder for you, shouldn't you be shifting your focus to punishing the people who are the reason i don't put in any effort when i see you in my matches? oh, wait, that's right, they tried doing that. you all complained that you weren't getting anything when you lost. my bad, i forgot that you can't stand being held responsible for your own actions.

this is why i love the people saying "30 minute penalty for leaving" with a penalty... they just get me sitting in a corner watching tv while waiting out the loss, instead of simply leaving and opening up a spot for either a sadomasochist who likes losing or a pro player with the patience of a saint. if its not worth my time and effort to try and carry them without the penalty... what in heaven makes them think that adding a deserter penalty will suddenly change my mind and make me think its worthwhile for me to start propping them up?

not quite true. im not pvping for the community. no more than any athlete plays a sport for the community. ask any athlete who has seen a championship and he'll tell you he plays for himself and his team. but here's the rub... he plays for his team because he respects them. he respects them because he knows they are just as dedicated to improving themselves and winning the championship as he is. but when you get random people thrown together, there is no respect, and it won't be earned until those randoms show each other that they have some level of ability. if they never show that ability, they will never be respected. which means that pro will never play for his team... he'll only play for himself at that point. is it any wonder why the pro players, who get stuck with these special olympics rejects, get disgusted with their "teammates" during the championship matches?

well then, to make it fair... we should go back to giving out zero rewards for losing. you know, like they tried to do a couple weeks back. after all, if im going to be punished for not "being a teamplayer" shouldn't you be punished for the same thing? because lets face it... there's more to being a teamplayer than simply showing up to practice. if you aren't going to put in the effort to get better, then you should be punished for wasting my time. you say im not a teamplayer because i leave you behind, and want to punish me for it. ok. but that means you need to be punished for when im forced to stick around and you continue to underperform. you want to punish me for leaving, i won't leave, so long as you get punished for playing badly match after match after match. after all... fair is fair, right? or are you one of those people who only see selfishness in others but refuse to take responsibility for your own faults?

came to that conclusion long ago. its the old "its my 15 bucks a month, i can play how i want to!" argument. well, that's fine. just don't ask me to also play the way you want to until you pay my 15 bucks a month.

for the most part im pretty sure the people who leave have no problem with spending time in a close match, even if its a loss. its just that experience allows many of us to judge pretty early in the match, based off of the actions of our randomly selected teammates, the odds of it being a close match or a pure and simple curb stomping. an example: did a novare last night. i stuck around. about 3 minutes into it we were holding 1 bunker, we'd get 2, but instantly lose the second one as my team was doing nothing but zerging and letting the repubs just take the bunker we left undefended. i went ahead and decided to try and defend. when someone yelled about me "not fighting", i couldn't help it. i told him that "this match is already lost, i might as well get some coms out of it by defending." his reply was that "its not over till the end" at the end, when the final score was 0-96... i mentioned that id been right earlier, he just didn't know it. experience counts for alot. sometimes my instincts are wrong, but more often than not, when i know the match is lost early on, but stick around anyways, im proven right in the end.

two points. first. i learned how to pvp on my own, and continue to do so. i do it by watching decent players and trying to do like they do. i do it by noticing patterns in the way the other teams react. i do it by drawing on past experience to judge where to be at the right time. but mostly... i do it myself. two. i don't owe it to anyone to make them better. they either want to improve on their own and will make the effort to do so, or they won't. its not up to me to teach them. that's just another form of carrying, and if i don't ask anyone else to carry me, why should i be expected to carry them, in any way, shape or form? i don't ask much. just that you make an effort to improve yourself. ill sit in a losing match if i can tell the people there are trying. but when they're doing nothing but deathmatching in the middle of the field and ignoring the objectives... sorry. if you show a bit of effort to help yourself, ill help you. if you don't make any effort to help yourself though, don't ask me to help you. i don't have the patience to deal with playing alongside bad players who aren't capable of helping themselves... i sure as hell don't have the patience to become their mentor.

maybe if you, who call others ADD, checked back a page or two in this thread you'd notice my other posts. ive said it very clearly. i will give the same effort my team puts forth. if its a close match, even if it ends up a loss, i have zero problem with that and will stick around and do my best. but if i get jammed in with a team that is so uncoordinated and/or clueless about the objectives that we're 3 capped within the first couple minutes of ald, or the score in huttball is 0-3 in less than 2 minutes... you get what you give. you give me nothing, you'll get nothing in return. and i take back what i said... i won't stop pvping. instead ill just sit and afk in a corner. chances are i won't get vote kicked that often because the teams i leave are so damn uncoordinated that i doubt they could even get enough votes together to boot me before the match ends. you want to drag me down and force me to play on your level by putting in deserter debuffs, that's fine with me... i have a tv right next to my pc. i can watch a flick and still contribute more to a win than you. but, if possible, ill do everything i can to make sure you lose. not that it would take much effort, since if you had had a chance of winning in the first place i wouldn't have considered leaving the match. i would have been content to let you suck on your own, but since you insist on dragging me down with you... you'll get the opportunity to reap what you sow. enjoy.

but, but... who would you blame when you keep losing?!