5 months to get full Battlemaster gear. Working as intended..

[FarizAA]

One advice to you, never play poker. -) You will tilt and lose all your money.

 

Seriously, 25% brings very high variance. I am too lazy to calculate everything, but lets say, people, who will be within "normal" distribution (expected number of tokens from 100 bags +- 10%), will be a minority to people who will be "lucky", or "unlucky".

 

As it was said, BM gear effect is marginal. After you get full champion closing just one gap in your rotation can bring you much more than a full BM. After you get a full champion what is really important is to work your game.

[Lupious]

It is flawed and it is broken when it can take one person 2 weeks to fully gear up and someone else 5 months.

 

^^

This

[FarizAA]

It is flawed and it is broken when it can take one person 2 weeks to fully gear up and someone else 5 months.

 

Yeah, I really hear you. I understand this kind of frustration. I am sure it will be addressed some way to make it less frustrating. When? Who knows, BW still do not fix many game breaking issues.

 

There is some ways to make it less frustrating, and lets all hope BW will do something about it. They changed system for champ/centurion, and it was a nice change. May be BM is coming soon too.

[Axien]

I'm not the OP but obviously he would give everyone a full BM set with 1st month sub.

 

Where exactly did the OP say or hint at anything remotely like that?

 

What he did state was that he'd prefer to accumulate gear steadily through consistent rewards for participation rather than the luck associated with RNG. There was no allusion to the length of time that grind would take.

 

I, for one, agree. The negatives in this kind of progression far outweigh the positives.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Axien

[Squarez]

11 for 70 here, the RNG system is complete garbage. They made us pre1.1 BM grind through RNG champion bags, then proceed to make ilum an easy valor farm and change champion bags to fast grind to full champion. Now they expect us to grind out the RNG BM bags just so that they can change them a few weeks later? No thanks, I will just not play until you realize the RNG system is a terrible way to encourage gameplay.

[xNear]

Is welfare champion gear not enough? Do you honestly want the entire pvp gear selection out there and have nothing to play for? Whats the point then? Having a tier with minimal stat upgrades as an RNG incentive and everyone else running around in the next best set of gear seems optimal for an MMO.

[maximusedward]

Is welfare champion gear not enough? Do you honestly want the entire pvp gear selection out there and have nothing to play for? Whats the point then? Having a tier with minimal stat upgrades as an RNG incentive and everyone else running around in the next best set of gear seems optimal for an MMO.

 

roflmao champ gear considering if someone hasnt earned their lv 60 it would probably take a month or more to get full champ and if it wasn't for the expertise the first set of PvE gear would be the better choice

Edited February 16, 2012 by maximusedward

[Jaisen-Naritus]

Opened about 78 bags as of today (hit Battlemaster before the commendation change), and if I include the Battlemaster gear tokens I got before the switch as commendations then I've managed to get a grand total of 8. I'd gladly take a lengthy grind toward guaranteed rewards over this RNG nonsense anyday.

[Acindo]

I have opened 6 bags and got 3 tokens.

 

Sorry guys.

 

I was also fully geared in champ gear before the commendation change in about a week.

 

I PvP a lotttt. I just figure the game likes me.

[Moosestick]

11 for 70 here, the RNG system is complete garbage. They made us pre1.1 BM grind through RNG champion bags, then proceed to make ilum an easy valor farm and change champion bags to fast grind to full champion. Now they expect us to grind out the RNG BM bags just so that they can change them a few weeks later? No thanks, I will just not play until you realize the RNG system is a terrible way to encourage gameplay.

 

It takes something like 1.5 months to get full champ with the new bags. If you already "ground" out champ gear, then dont worry about the extra 5%. It will come.

 

Sorry you didn't get what you wanted, when you wanted it.

[KronikInsomniak]

I thought they were RNG. With that said, you can't "expect" anything. You could have full BM by the end of next weeks weeklies. You never know.

 

EDIT: Perhaps you need to learn what the laws of percentage really are. It isn't I have a 1 in 4 chance of winning therefor 1 in 4 bags WILL give me a token. Hell, you could get 1,000 bags and even at 50% have all 1,000 give you nothing.

 

You are just reinforcing his point, the system is broken from a game design perspective. Statistically speaking with 1.7 million players there will be a ton of players go on ridiculous dry spells for tokens. The laws of percentages just show how broken this RNG system is when applied to in game rewards.

[PloGreen]

1 token in 28 bags. Ye what a great system. It's bloody awful, how is it fair someone can get 4 tokens in 5 bags and I get one in 28?

 

Random is random. It is also a bloody stupid system.

[KilllerRock]

Is welfare champion gear not enough? Do you honestly want the entire pvp gear selection out there and have nothing to play for? Whats the point then? Having a tier with minimal stat upgrades as an RNG incentive and everyone else running around in the next best set of gear seems optimal for an MMO.

 

No thats not the point. The point is its frustrating as can be when you have been BM for a month and have 1 piece of BM gear after opening 40 bags. and someone who is BM for a week has 4 pieces of gear after opening 12 bags.

 

I'm not upset that its going to take me 5 months to get a full set of BM gear. I'm upset that its going to take me 5 months to get BM gear and other people who are fresh ilum kill traders 2 weeks to get theres.

 

From the start all bags should provide their respective tokens and just had high prices on the gear. Its still a carrot if BM items cost 60 tokens and you only get 4 tokens a day. But its way more fair as you know the people who have the gear put in the grind time to get it. Not just lucky while i and others are unlucky.

[Kelticfury]

To recap: 5 months to get full Battlemaster is working as intended. Do not reply to this post with a statistics lecture. Nobody wants to hear it. The point of this thread is to draw attention to how absurd this system is. It needs to change.

 

To recap: Don't point out the absurdity of the assumptions in my post.

[Purge]

yeah i started keeping track 28 BM boxes ago...... No tokens in last 28. Would say its just bad luck, but my guildies are having the same problem. Didn't read all the posts (sorry, dont have the time.) They sure they didnt make it 2.5% on accident? lol. Stopped going to Ilum all together. Not worth getting farmed by the 99999 imps there for what seems no chance for top gear.

[MuscarKrone]

4 out of 28 bags....

 

CSR told me it was a "Known issue" but here we are post 1.1.3

 

3 other guys in my guild hit BM a week after me and all have 7+ comms now, I'm in Rage Quit mode.... I seem to be getting

 

Mathematically my luck is in the 1/100th least lucky, I seriously doubt a RNG would roll that low for me constantly. Seeing so many people having this many issues, it appears the RNG gets stuck at a low drop rate for people and Bioware is so sure of itself that its working fine....

[Caribroo]

There's nothing above Battlemaster, so quit the QQ already. There's your endgame for you.

[DariuszPol]

I'm at 3 bm tokens out of 36 BM boxes. That's 1 token per week. It takes 20 tokens to get a full set of BM. The drop rate is supposed to be 25%, but for me and a lot of others (who have made dozens of similar threads) I'm around 9%. If the trend stays current then it will take me 5 months straight of daily/weekly pvp quests.

 

Over on the Customer Service forums there was an official response to this concern:

 

 

Unfortunately there was a followup response later in the same thread:

 

 

To recap: 5 months to get full Battlemaster is working as intended. Do not reply to this post with a statistics lecture. Nobody wants to hear it. The point of this thread is to draw attention to how absurd this system is. It needs to change.

 

Then how people already run in BM set ?

[Ortof]

You are just reinforcing his point, the system is broken from a game design perspective. Statistically speaking with 1.7 million players there will be a ton of players go on ridiculous dry spells for tokens. The laws of percentages just show how broken this RNG system is when applied to in game rewards.

 

No his point is that the RNG system is broken. It is not. I mean seriously, you guys are attacking the laws of percentages and blaming them for not giving you that 1 out of every 10 that it says (or in this case 1 out of every 4). The system is not broken and it is not flawed, it is what it is, numbers. The numbers are not incorrect by any means (unless there is a big in the coding).

 

Now, before someone nerd rages and punches their monitor. Can a better system be put in place? By all means yes. Can a more user friendly one be put in place? Yup. I am not arguing the fact that a different system would probably behoove the entire community.

 

What I am arguing and finding funny is that people are blaming the numbers for not getting their gear. What, they are what they are. They didn't change because it was you. They have no biased to anyone. And like I said, if this is such a huge issue (RNG) why not march on down to your local lottery and demand some money or a change? I mean average lottery to win around here is 1 in 3.4. Those are good odds wouldn't ya think?

 

Come on now guys, think before you attack RAWR "it's all flawed", "it's all broken", NO, no it's not. The system they put forth is working properly without flaw. Is it the best system? Nope, but people still want to blame the numbers for working properly.

[MuscarKrone]

No his point is that the RNG system is broken. It is not. I mean seriously, you guys are attacking the laws of percentages and blaming them for not giving you that 1 out of every 10 that it says (or in this case 1 out of every 4). The system is not broken and it is not flawed, it is what it is, numbers. The numbers are not incorrect by any means (unless there is a big in the coding).

 

Now, before someone nerd rages and punches their monitor. Can a better system be put in place? By all means yes. Can a more user friendly one be put in place? Yup. I am not arguing the fact that a different system would probably behoove the entire community.

 

What I am arguing and finding funny is that people are blaming the numbers for not getting their gear. What, they are what they are. They didn't change because it was you. They have no biased to anyone. And like I said, if this is such a huge issue (RNG) why not march on down to your local lottery and demand some money or a change? I mean average lottery to win around here is 1 in 3.4. Those are good odds wouldn't ya think?

 

Come on now guys, think before you attack RAWR "it's all flawed", "it's all broken", NO, no it's not. The system they put forth is working properly without flaw. Is it the best system? Nope, but people still want to blame the numbers for working properly.

 

I agree with your post, but you have to understand most people here posting are in the 1/

100th or less percentile of getting such low RNG odds. I dont think this many people would be in that boat.....

 

Yes a better system needs to be put in. I see people hit BM and I examine them 5 days later... they are in full BM gear. Some of us that have been BM for weeks... get nothing for our work. Id rather a longer and slower but more sure gring to gear.

 

I seriously HATE that any gear chance this high end in the game is all luck...

 

I mean has anyone had this bad of luck in Operations? Its a 25% chance in ops that a gear peice for your class will drop.... that 25% RNG seems to be working just fine IMHO.

[Ortof]

I agree with your post, but you have to understand most people here posting are in the 1/

100th or less percentile of getting such low RNG odds. I dont think this many people would be in that boat.....

 

Yes a better system needs to be put in. I see people hit BM and I examine them 5 days later... they are in full BM gear. Some of us that have been BM for weeks... get nothing for our work. Id rather a longer and slower but more sure gring to gear.

 

I seriously HATE that any gear chance this high end in the game is all luck...

 

I mean has anyone had this bad of luck in Operations? Its a 25% chance in ops that a gear peice for your class will drop.... that 25% RNG seems to be working just fine IMHO.

 

It's been around 3 weeks since I received my last "in bag" piece of champ gear. While I understand that BM takes tokens and such, perhaps they put tokens and gear on the same looting table. Dunno, but it still stands man.

 

25% is 75% not to get anything. If you ain't first, you're last. Numbers are what numbers are. Hell, I've played hundreds of lottery tickets at the 1 to 3.4 to win ratio in my life. I haven't won the money back that I have put forth.

 

While there will always be the guy or guys that "OMG look, I got 5 bags and 4 piece of gear" on the flip side there will be the "I've opened 40 and nothing". Good/Bad

[patatt]

I thought they were RNG. With that said, you can't "expect" anything. You could have full BM by the end of next weeks weeklies. You never know.

 

EDIT: Perhaps you need to learn what the laws of percentage really are. It isn't I have a 1 in 4 chance of winning therefor 1 in 4 bags WILL give me a token. Hell, you could get 1,000 bags and even at 50% have all 1,000 give you nothing.

 

Right, cause RNG is the best way to prove any form of skill.

 

This just further proves the point that BW has no *********** clue what they're doing in the PvP realm, and are totally catering to the PvE players who will ultimately abandon this game once they've played all the classes they care to play. This should last upwards of about a year, by which time other MMOs will have devoured the market.

 

But thank you for your usesless statistics post. It really meant about 99% of nothing to half of one third of the population who use this forum.

 

Without as much massive bashing as I could possibly do, the law of percentages are not meant to govern such things as skill and hard work. When a person works hard at their job, they are not given a 1/4 chance to recieve a raise each year. Equate that to how the BM RNG system works and you'll realize why this PvP system is a *********** failure and must be changed.

[rbguy]

4 BM bags tonight and nothing, of course. 2/20, working as intended. Yea all night wasted for absolutely no gain in anything. Talked to a guy that hit BM today and got 3 tokens out of 4 bags, so naturally based on time and effort he should be better geared, again working as intended.

 

Seriously if BW knows there is a problem, why not bring down the servers to hotfix it?

I bet if there was a billing problem and we were being underbilled they would be on it in seconds.

[patatt]

No his point is that the RNG system is broken. It is not. I mean seriously, you guys are attacking the laws of percentages and blaming them for not giving you that 1 out of every 10 that it says (or in this case 1 out of every 4). The system is not broken and it is not flawed, it is what it is, numbers. The numbers are not incorrect by any means (unless there is a big in the coding).

 

Now, before someone nerd rages and punches their monitor. Can a better system be put in place? By all means yes. Can a more user friendly one be put in place? Yup. I am not arguing the fact that a different system would probably behoove the entire community.

 

What I am arguing and finding funny is that people are blaming the numbers for not getting their gear. What, they are what they are. They didn't change because it was you. They have no biased to anyone. And like I said, if this is such a huge issue (RNG) why not march on down to your local lottery and demand some money or a change? I mean average lottery to win around here is 1 in 3.4. Those are good odds wouldn't ya think?

 

Come on now guys, think before you attack RAWR "it's all flawed", "it's all broken", NO, no it's not. The system they put forth is working properly without flaw. Is it the best system? Nope, but people still want to blame the numbers for working properly.

 

I'm glad that your sardonic approach to how a PvP system could work can make light of the fact that people put effort into possibly recieving nothing, but the losses you create by making this kind of system outweight the gains of a legitimate PvP reward system.

 

You are catering to the weak by creating an RNG system, and discouraging the hardcore PvPers who are NOTORIOUS for keeping games alive throughought diversity, which SWTOR has been undertaking.

 

It's not the best system, by far. It's a system that allows for people who haven't earned what they deserve to have better gear than those who HAVE earned it. That, my friend, is unfair in all regards, RNG or not.

 

You want to make an MMO with pvp that will last? Get rid of any situation where RNG has any influence. From then on out, you'll be starting from the right point.

[MuscarKrone]

It's been around 3 weeks since I received my last "in bag" piece of champ gear. While I understand that BM takes tokens and such, perhaps they put tokens and gear on the same looting table. Dunno, but it still stands man.

 

25% is 75% not to get anything. If you ain't first, you're last. Numbers are what numbers are. Hell, I've played hundreds of lottery tickets at the 1 to 3.4 to win ratio in my life. I haven't won the money back that I have put forth.

 

While there will always be the guy or guys that "OMG look, I got 5 bags and 4 piece of gear" on the flip side there will be the "I've opened 40 and nothing". Good/Bad

 

I understand them building luck into the game, and chance is fun, but 50/50 or something.... I mean basically this current system makes me want to Stop pvping for a few weeks.... Its not like I will miss out on anything with my luck

 

BTW I got my first 4 BM Comms in the first 10 bags, the next 19 bags in a row... nada....