The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

[Calista_ZK]

HI THERE MR TROLL MAN!

 

Stun? All classes get a 4 sec stun (except OP, which is 1.5?)

-marauders : force choke

-Jugg: back hand

-Merc: Electrodart

 

Knockback? All classes (except OP and PT) have a KB

Jugg/Sent: Force push

Merc: Jet Boost + Jet punch (what ever that punch **** is called)

Sniper : (idk what that skill name is)

 

Bubble:

Marauders/Juggs: Guarded by the force

Merc/PT : shield

and since you are really bad at SWTOR, ill correct you in the fact that you can only have the bubble every 20secs...not ALL THE TIME.

 

Speed buff:

-juggs/marauder: Force leap + the other leap they have.

-PT : Jet charge

 

Heal:

( this is why i KNOW you are an idiot in swtor)

Merc/OP both get heals in their DPS spec. (since they are both healing classes)

 

 

 

and since when did population = OP?

 

GG come back again!

 

best post of the day !

[biowareftw]

HI THERE MR TROLL MAN!

 

Stun? All classes get a 4 sec stun (except OP, which is 1.5?)

-marauders : force choke

-Jugg: back hand

-Merc: Electrodart

 

Knockback? All classes (except OP and PT) have a KB

Jugg/Sent: Force push

Merc: Jet Boost + Jet punch (what ever that punch **** is called)

Sniper : (idk what that skill name is)

 

Bubble:

Marauders/Juggs: Guarded by the force

Merc/PT : shield

and since you are really bad at SWTOR, ill correct you in the fact that you can only have the bubble every 20secs...not ALL THE TIME.

 

Speed buff:

-juggs/marauder: Force leap + the other leap they have.

-PT : Jet charge

 

Heal:

( this is why i KNOW you are an idiot in swtor)

Merc/OP both get heals in their DPS spec. (since they are both healing classes)

 

 

 

and since when did population = OP?

 

GG come back again!

 

So much wrong with this post. Marauder/sents get a stun huh? A channeled stun??? Also learn the difference between a RANGED stun and a melee stun. Big difference. This is why Blizzard didn't give mages hammer of justice or kidney shot and kidney shot required setup...Ranged stuns that are in other mmos (that don't fail) last half as long are subject to diminishing returns and usually require a proc to do.

 

Healing? What about it? If you are healing anyone other then yourself on a scoundrel/op you are screwed. 1) you can't spec into those talents and be viable. 2) healing other people screws you out of stealthing which = dead. 3) Why the hell would you heal other people on a melee spec when you self kite yourself from any target lol.

 

Merc/Commandos? Sorry they don't have stupid hybrid specs where they have infinite force, and they don't throw bubbles on people which is the best INSTANT heal in the game, since there is no purge/dispel in this game. They also don't auto CC people when their shield breaks. They also have to cast their soft CC.

 

The hybrid spec gets a ranged stun, a knockback (that you can talent to root but most skip it for more dmg), a INSTANT soft CC, and when their shield breaks it automatically cc's people around them (plays for you).

 

LOL at you comparing bubble to defensive cooldowns as well. All the other heal hybrids as dps suck at healing. Hybrid spec excels at it (bubbling other people and having way too much resource efficiency for offhealing), is the best CC class in the game, can burst with anyone with procs, and is the hardest class to bring down. Not that it can't be done, it just takes way too long due to all the stupid CC you get as hybrid.

 

I suggest actually trying to play other classes before you talk about them. I played sage in beta. The hybrid spec was OP as hell, boring as hell and it needs to go. You can't be good at everything as dps. Sorc/sage is. The other hybrid was nerfed (shadow/assassin) and wasn't nearly as powerful.

 

If Bioware/EA doesn't do the same to the sage/sorc hybrid is just makes them look incompetent and biased.

Edited February 10, 2012 by biowareftw

[da_krall]

Well, by moving core abilities higher up in the tree... Voila! You got yourself a NERF

 

I totally agree however. The utility/dmg/healing of this class ALL AT ONCE is too much compared to what other classes can do and needs to be toned down.

 

+1

 

What a load of rubbish...all the melee classes do alot more damage, have a number of gap closers, loads of CC and a lot more resists.

 

Sorcs haev they CC because they need their CC to have any chance to RUN AWAY when 1 or 2 people pay attention to them.

[da_krall]

You really did not get my point did you? Or maybe you don't want to.

 

The only thing that I said is that Sorcs/Sages are probably the hardest class to kill in PvP compared to ALL OTHER classes.

In other words: Sorcs/Sages have a much better chance to survive an Op/Scoundrel's stealth attack than other classes.

 

Ok?

 

Thats BS, any tank class or a healing merc will in no way be in any danger from an operative. 0. Zilch, nada, none.

[Crummosh]

So much wrong with this post. Marauder/sents get a stun huh? A channeled stun??? Also learn the difference between a RANGED stun and a melee stun. Big difference. This is why Blizzard didn't give mages hammer of justice or kidney shot and kidney shot required setup...Ranged stuns that are in other mmos (that don't fail) last half as long are subject to diminishing returns and usually require a proc to do.

 

 

Frost mages have a stun.

[GunnarL]

No sorry the message is out that the class is OP. Too much utility combined with good damage.

 

Heres a video of a good Sorc. I would recommend putting it on mute but you can really see how many tools he has at his disposable combined with good damage and no downtime.

 

At time he has 2/3 guys on him and survives with his bubble/rebubble/sprint/heal/cc.

 

 

First and foremost they have a roll group and they are facing a pug..... That and the pug group is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE.

 

Second did you notice how many other republic players died that round.......

 

Third and finally, he was guarded quite a bit in that match which automatically makes you take tons less damage AND he was getting heals.....

 

IN conclusion you need to find better research material......

[da_krall]

 

2) Stuns need to fill a resolve bar instantly as in you get stunned you pop a trinket and you are under resolves effects. Getting stunlocked from operatives/scoundrels (who now hit like girls) is fine. Getting stunlocked from range and not being able to pop a defensive cooldown while stunned, and using a trinket and getting immediately stunned again? Total utter crap. Takes any skill out of the game and just promotes stacking only classes with a ranged stun as dps other then the token well played marauder/sent for Mortal strike. Want to know why the entire 40-49 bracket has classes with ranged stuns stacked in them? Cus this game is broken.

 

How exactly are you getting stun locked in your made up fantasy world? They have 1 4 second stun which will 3/4 fill your resolve bar and a sleep with a two second stun that will fill your resolve bar? So basically your making it up.

 

4 seconds isnt enough to kill anyone unless you are trying to kill an Op or Sorc.

[Zynellan]

Bump for justice.

[jtfone]

 

It is not OP that he can run away from you, you just aren't good enough at the pretty basic forumla for killing a sorcerer:

 

1. Break the initial bubble (do not use burst)

2. Break the second bubble (again, do not use burst)

3. CC Sorcerer and burst him

4. Reapply CC when/if he escapes/it wears off (you probably won't have to)

5. Finish him off during the second CC if needed.

6. If you really suck at DPSing, you will now watch him force speed away from you. Use your gap closer now (you didn't use it earlier like a noob, did you?)

 

Sorry your a joke. Did you even watch the video I posted. 4k + short bursts at times from the Sorc in addition to his super abilities. I love how you make it sound like it is so easy to go through bubbles lol.

 

Yes the class is op and the baddie Sorc's like you are terrified there super class will be adjusted.

 

Watch at 8:00 to 9. No Sorc's have no burst right?

 

Edited February 10, 2012 by jtfone

[biowareftw]

Frost mages have a stun.

 

That takes setup is subject to diminishing returns? What happens when you trinket their stun. Are you immediately put in another stun (since this game isn't one on one and one of the 5 other sorcs/mercs in the warzone will stun you again) and do you die during the duration of that stun? Hell no. The second stun lasts for jack. This is why resolve fails and why it stuns in this game should give you a full resolve bar. As far as frost mages?

 

Do they throw bubbles on people which is the best instant heal in the game?

Can their bubbles be dispelled?

Do they require no combos just spam and hitting a proc?

Is their sheep instant?

Does thier shield breaking put a FULL soft cc on people (not just a root)?

Can their CC be cleansed non stop?

Are they among the best or the best class for total warzone dmg?

Can they offheal?

 

Please don't compare the faceroll ranged in this game to a frost mage. Not that frost mage is super hard, but you can't be a total derp and do well on it.

 

The only ranged even close to as hard to play as any ranged class (that is actually a good pvp spec and not a raiding spec) in WoW is a slinger/sniper.

 

Any decent frost mage from WoW knows the two most prominent ranged classes you see in this game are the most dumbed down ranged imaginable. The only mage who would claim the hybrid sorc/sage spec as balance is a 1500 arena hero who pvped as arcane.

 

Add to all this? Many classes can go immune to CC in WoW or get buffs to prevent roots. Does this prevent frost mages from doing well? LOL no. They have been among the best pvp classes for years, they just can't be played by herp derps and excel.

Edited February 10, 2012 by biowareftw

[Faat]

A sorcerer/tank combo is pretty easy to kill if you approach them with tactics.

 

1. Burn the Tank's shield (time it so that his debuff is pretty deep still).

2. CC the Sorcerer.

3. Burst the tank.

4. Reapply CC on the Sorcerer.

5. Finish the tank.

6. Sorcerer will run away.

 

 

 

Oh, it's you again. How have you not been banned for trolling yet? For real, please answer this question, it is really bothering me.

 

Anyway, a good sorcerer can avoid death for a long, long time. He cannot "win" though, only escape.

 

It is not OP that he can run away from you, you just aren't good enough at the pretty basic forumla for killing a sorcerer:

 

1. Break the initial bubble (do not use burst)

2. Break the second bubble (again, do not use burst)

3. CC Sorcerer and burst him

4. Reapply CC when/if he escapes/it wears off (you probably won't have to)

5. Finish him off during the second CC if needed.

6. If you really suck at DPSing, you will now watch him force speed away from you. Use your gap closer now (you didn't use it earlier like a noob, did you?)

 

Sorc + tank combo pretty easy kill, gimme a break.

 

Both have CC they can stun lock you 'till you're dead meat. Sure, if they both suck and don't LoS RDPS, they'll die, but a good sage / sorc + a good tank, cycling CC , taunts, pull, assisting targets, is simply too much. Also, BURST THE TANK LAWL.

 

What if... Another tank uses guard on said focused tank. Just gimme a break about HOW EASY IT IS TO KILL A TANK + SORC combo.

 

No, theorycrafting is in favor of the tank + sorc combo if you don't have a similar duo in your group. 2 DPS won't take down a good tank + sorc combo. They have all the tools to mez 1, taunt the other one and take him out in less than 10 secs. If said DPS is guarded, then it's closer, but then the only combination that can compete with Sorc + tank is similarly specced / geared Sage + tank.

[Sirolos]

Bump for justice.

 

STOP THAT -_-.

 

 

Also..Has anyone ever thought to make Wrath proc for ONLY Crushing Darkness...Like the Assassins Raze only procs for crushing Darkness.

 

 

If Wrath worked like its AC mirror

 

-Hybrids lose the ability to instant Chain Lightning

-You lose all reasons to make a hybrid.

[GrandMike]

How exactly are you getting stun locked in your made up fantasy world? They have 1 4 second stun which will 3/4 fill your resolve bar and a sleep with a two second stun that will fill your resolve bar? So basically your making it up.

 

4 seconds isnt enough to kill anyone unless you are trying to kill an Op or Sorc.

 

He already said that getting stunlocked from operative/scoundrel is ok, and getting stunlocked from sorc/sage is not ok

 

Aside a fact that you cant be stunlocked ;P

 

No sorry the message is out that the class is OP. Too much utility combined with good damage.

 

Heres a video of a good Sorc. I would recommend putting it on mute but you can really see how many tools he has at his disposable combined with crazy burst 5-7k dmg at times and no downtime.

 

At time he has 2/3 guys on him and survives with his bubble/rebubble/sprint/heal/cc.

 

 

Highest damage that i saw is 2,6k. Yes, uber burst lol Apparently you dont know what you talk about

 

Only good thing about that video is noob imps getting crushed by "vet" reps.

Edited February 10, 2012 by GrandMike

[Crummosh]

Sorry your a joke. Did you even watch the video I posted. 4k + short bursts at times from the Sorc in addition to his super abilities. I love how you make it sound like it is so easy to go through bubbles lol.

 

Yes the class is op and the baddie Sorc's like you are terrified there super class will be adjusted.

 

Watch at 8:00 to 9. No Sorc's have no burst right?

 

 

Highest number I see is a 2200 something, op number there. The 2.2ks u see together are on different targets.

 

On the other hand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwLo3st0rqg

[da_krall]

Three reasons:

 

- Mobility skills rule in Huttball, sorcs have heaps of them, and 90% of PvP is Huttball

 

 

yes they have heaps if by heaps you mean two.....a two second speed boost with a 30CD and a pull ally spell. I can see why with your ability for exageration why sorc are doing 6K hit on you..........

[GunnarL]

Highest number I see is a 2200 something, op number there. The 2.2ks u see together are on different targets.

 

On the other hand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwLo3st0rqg

 

look someone did some good research!

[RahlLegacy]

The problem is that WZs are flooded with bad players. I farm them all game. If you exclude just me from the screenshots you'll get a clearer picture of a typical WZ. I'm not saying I'm a godly player or anything because there are at least 8-9 others on my server that are about as good as me but everyone else is either not good or not geared enough to be good.

 

They should start a religion were everybody prays to you... and then everyone in that religion should drink some magic kool-aid or try to catch a ride on an alien spaceship comet that is leaving earth.

[da_krall]

 

At time he has 2/3 guys on him and survives with his bubble/rebubble/sprint/heal/cc.

 

 

Like most people who PvP you have totally forgotten about the healers. You know those green numbers that help you get all your 'solo' kills. This guy was being spam healed throughout the video in a gmae where his premade team where wiping the floor with a pug. Biased video is biased.

[Precurso]

yes they have heaps if by heaps you mean two..

 

That is infinitely higher than zero

[Zarthorn]

The TRUTH is that in geared level 50 PvP, sorcs aren't all that, and marauders are.

 

Marauders are very gear based and thus don't really begin to shine until they get a very high amount of weapon damage, which takes a lot of time investment to do.

 

Sorcerors are not geared based and shine without as much emphasis on gear because of the stupidity of the hybrid spec.

 

Not to mention for the most Maras are glass cannons that need to get in melee in a very melee unfriendly environment, if one gets on top of you, they deserve to get the reward for it.

 

For me they need to do a lot of rebalancing of talent trees, there are a lot of messed up hybrid specs that screw up balance (merc/commando hybrid is also notoriously good) but the problem is most evident in the Sorc/Sage hybrid spec.

 

As a Guardian player I absolutely loathe the fact that in order to tank to the fullest degree, I have to hybrid Vigil/Defence because Defence is massively lacking in base mitigation, in the case of the Guardian, this is mainly because the defence tree is grossly underpowered at the top tier (Guardian slash is an absolute joke, Cyclonic sweeps is a useless talent and Inner peace is nowhere near as good as commanding awe)

[da_krall]

That is infinitely higher than zero

 

Who has zero CC? is this another one of those fantasy made up classes created in a pperson head to prove their invalid point?

Edited February 10, 2012 by da_krall

[Darth_Philar]

Sorc + tank combo pretty easy kill, gimme a break.

 

Both have CC they can stun lock you 'till you're dead meat. Sure, if they both suck and don't LoS RDPS, they'll die, but a good sage / sorc + a good tank, cycling CC , taunts, pull, assisting targets, is simply too much. Also, BURST THE TANK LAWL.

 

What if... Another tank uses guard on said focused tank. Just gimme a break about HOW EASY IT IS TO KILL A TANK + SORC combo.

 

No, theorycrafting is in favor of the tank + sorc combo if you don't have a similar duo in your group. 2 DPS won't take down a good tank + sorc combo. They have all the tools to mez 1, taunt the other one and take him out in less than 10 secs. If said DPS is guarded, then it's closer, but then the only combination that can compete with Sorc + tank is similarly specced / geared Sage + tank.

 

You have to burst the tank, the Sorcerer will be invincible as long as he is alive. Lock the Sorc, burn the tank. It's pretty simple. Also, bringing a 3rd tank into the equation to support a 2v2 argument? Total fail.

 

If your two DPS are timing their interrupts and abilities correctly, they can kill a sorcerer/tank combo. It won't be fast, but it will be a success.

[Delavager]

This thread and the Original Post are all assumptions and thus this is really pointless.

 

Why do you assume that 31pt specs are supposed to be the best spec?

There is a reason you can put points however you want, a hybrid spec being the best spec is completely viable option.

 

You A) Assume sorc/sages are overpowered, and on top of that you B) Assume any one of those skills is the reason.

 

I'm not saying sorc/sages are over powered, balanced or anything. I'm just saying this is all heresy and opinion.

 

Balance is really subjective. Really really subjective.

[Methenu]

The reason Sorcs/Sages are OP in PvP: The are highly visible.

 

Perception has a lot to do with the whole "Sorcs/Sages are OP" crowd.

 

Lightning, TT, bubbles, pulls, etc.

 

Sorcs/Sages aren't about burst DPS, they are about sustained DPS. Whether it is a channeled ability or a DoT. If you don't follow the trail to them and take them out, yes, they will probably pwn you. Why? Because you didn't do anything about an enemy that was out to destroy you.

 

Same could be said about any other ranged DPS class. If you let a Sniper/Gunslinger make you an easy target, you deserve to get pwned. Those classes are about burst damage and big crits, though, unlike the Sorcs/Sages.

 

The sheer amount of Sorcs/Sages also feeds into the whole "they are OP" mentality. If you have half a dozen of ANY class primary'ing you with no backup, you'll get pwned as well.

 

Bottom line: It's more about population than actual ability. If you had dozens of Scoundrels/Operatives swarming around, people would be QQing just as hard.

[Calista_ZK]

The reason Sorcs/Sages are OP in PvP: The are highly visible.

 

Perception has a lot to do with the whole "Sorcs/Sages are OP" crowd.

 

Lightning, TT, bubbles, pulls, etc.

 

Sorcs/Sages aren't about burst DPS, they are about sustained DPS. Whether it is a channeled ability or a DoT. If you don't follow the trail to them and take them out, yes, they will probably pwn you. Why? Because you didn't do anything about an enemy that was out to destroy you.

 

Same could be said about any other ranged DPS class. If you let a Sniper/Gunslinger make you an easy target, you deserve to get pwned. Those classes are about burst damage and big crits, though, unlike the Sorcs/Sages.

 

The sheer amount of Sorcs/Sages also feeds into the whole "they are OP" mentality. If you have half a dozen of ANY class primary'ing you with no backup, you'll get pwned as well.

 

Bottom line: It's more about population than actual ability. If you had dozens of Scoundrels/Operatives swarming around, people would be QQing just as hard.

 

Well said. People literally cannot see the forest for the trees here (substitute sorc for tree).

 

Meanwhile, the sorcs are quietly dotting and freecasting, while someone's health is dribbling away, and they claim the class is OP , when in actuality the players teamed up, used the surroundings to their advantage, and outplayed them.