The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

[Vesperr]

I think one reason why sorcs are so sturdy is that bubble isnt affected by trauma. Its too good, srsly.

 

p.s. They killed assassin hybrids but not sorc hybrids... GJ BW, GJ.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Vesperr

[Vales]

he recommends to simply move the good skills on higher tiers of the trees not to nerf sorcs/sages. acoording to your saying none of you is an oped hybrid, then whats your problem with that?

 

Make TK viable and we have a deal. As long as TK is bad you won't get any sympathy,

Edited February 8, 2012 by Vales

[Vales]

1. Did you even read the OP?

 

2. Marauders don't have hybrid options. I wouldn't care if you moved around some talents.

 

3. Marauders have some of the lowest burst DPS in the game. We're sustained damage.

 

4. Read. The. Original. Post.

 

---

 

I really dislike how all the sorc/sages are now using attacks against me to try and discredit this thread. Please have some decency and actually respond/reply to the issues I have raised in the original post. Enough with the BS.

 

/loled

[boobaffet]

Not even worth my time to upload pics so I'll just use the ones I posted before. I don't "get destroyed" by anyone. That doesn't mean I don't understand when a class is imbalanced and needs to be fixed.

 

https://imgur.com/a/P3lM4#0

 

yes, nerf marauder.

[Vales]

this.

 

Too bad it would pigeonhole us into 31 Balance/+X because TK is crap. But hey what would you care it is better to whine on forums than to L2P.

[Vesperr]

BTW guys, do you know why sorcs have their aoe knockback on 20sec CD while other ranged classes are stuck with 30sec CD knockbacks? They get static shield instead of armor and free speed boost to get away.

 

 

p.s. sorc is the only healing class which can heal himself when not specced for healing without wasting so much energy that he'll become useless.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Vesperr

[DarthNorik]

BTW guys, do you know why sorcs have their aoe knockback on 20sec CD while other ranged classes are stuck with 30sec CD knockbacks? They get static shield instead of armor and free speed boost to get away.

 

 

p.s. sorc is the only healing class which can heal himself when not specced for healing without wasting so much energy that he'll become useless.

 

What I wanna know is why sorcs get all these great "don't hit me I'm squishy abilities" when an assassin gets none of them and we wear the same armor, and as madness spec we have the EXACT same moves....

 

I mean, why do sorcs get a bubble when we wear the same armor and have to attack at 4-10m and they get to attack at 30m, what makes us less squishy? They can even aoe knockback, root in place and heal when a lot of dps is in their face, I guess I can aoe knockback and go dark charge?(After waiting for my force bar to fill to full ofcourse)

 

I mean seriously Bioware, look at your game. Range DPS'ers with high survivalbility should not have high dps, simple as that. And healers, please someone look at healers of all classes.

[mausty]

What I wanna know is why sorcs get all these great "don't hit me I'm squishy abilities" when an assassin gets none of them and we wear the same armor, and as madness spec we have the EXACT same moves....

 

I mean, why do sorcs get a bubble when we wear the same armor and have to attack at 4-10m and they get to attack at 30m, what makes us less squishy? They can even aoe knockback, root in place and heal when a lot of dps is in their face, I guess I can aoe knockback and go dark charge?(After waiting for my force bar to fill to full ofcourse)

 

I mean seriously Bioware, look at your game. Range DPS'ers with high survivalbility should not have high dps, simple as that. And healers, please someone look at healers of all classes.

 

if only i had taken the red pill. grrrr

[Valketh]

Don't blatantly lie. Going hybrid means you give up lackluster 31 point talents and some minor crit damage boosting talents. The hybrid spec is by far the best in both PvE and PvP. It's not intended, they just made the higher talents so unappealing in comparison to the lower talents that the hybrid is now the most popular spec.

 

I completely agree with you which is why I rolled a Sorc. This will be my spec:

http://knotor.com/skills#AgcAFxJLaXqCiZKaobK60ttieZOZoqq6y9oA

 

Ridiculous amount of utility and the synergy between these trees is beautiful. I'm just glad there are SO MANY sorc that BW won't touch them!

[Natherillen]

Return of the Whiners. Edited February 9, 2012 by Natherillen

[ColdStormx]

I'm sorry...what is wrong with hybrids exactly? When have the devs said "hybrids are unintended" If you think that then we should not have specs at all but instead pick 1 of 3 set roles. There will be no different specs and you can be happy with your 31/0/0 specs I guess?

 

You are a joke. This forum is a joke. This game is quickly becoming a joke because of people such as yourself.

[Vales]

Here something I put up from a seasoned Sorc player maybe it puts some perspective into all these whiners:

 

Lvl 50 Prime-time vs other geared 50s is a COMPLETELY different animal.

 

No Sorc or Sage is going to get away from an Assassin or Shadow. They have every single piece of utility that you have (which come with better cds due to talents) sans shield which will be taken care of with one of their shock/project crits. They now have 20 seconds to crit crit crit your health away while you try and channel 800-900 Force Lightning ticks.

 

Merc/Commandos have the same range as sorcs (nullifying some of their utility) and one tracer missile/grav round drops shield. Even if Grav/Tracer is interrupted enjoy being Unloaded/Rail Shotted for 3-4k+ while your Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw hits for maybe 900 a tick, which is also easily interruptible.

 

Maras/Sents DESTROY Sages/Sorcs in a matter of seconds, not tens of seconds. Bleeds, Aoe slows, healing debuff, AOE mezz, leaps, 2 defensive CDs (one makes you invulnerable, other makes Force attacks worthless), speed boost (lasts longer than Force Speed), in combat stealth, accuracy debuff, MASSIVE single target burst dps AND hot healing offer FAR AND AWAY more utility than ONE single target stun, ONE single target mezz and one semi-spammable aoe KB and weak *** shield. Get real.

 

Even DPS specc'd tank AC's outburst Sorc/Sage DPS i.e. Pyrotech PTs and Vanguards. They also do not lack for utility with AOE stuns and grapples. DPS specc'd Juggs/Guards are able to AOE Sweep for 4-5k crits w/o costing resource, reducing (light) armor and rage bursting continuously.

 

Sorcs/Sages were getting out and out facerolled vs Operatives/Scoundrels before their nerf, and now while you MIGHT still have a fighting chance, their burst still far outweighs anything a sorc can do without casting a channeled spell. Which you're going to try and kite them, but any reasonable Op will Sever tendon, which puts a slow on you - which CAN'T be dispelled by a Force user, and by time they catch up to you their CDs have refreshed so its: Flashbang, Backstab, Shiv, Laceration for the final set up of burst.

 

Sorcs/Sages vs Snipers and Gunslingers isn't even a fair argument, using one UP class vs another UP class who's abilities can be easily LOS'd is just being disingenuous and not fit for discussion.

 

Out of ALL the classes in TOR, you knuckleheads want to NERF the one that has lowest single target BURST out of all of them, who as healing isn't even capable of outhealing a competent geared DPS on them, i.e. one using Interrupts and CC, and who doesn't have quite as much utility as you think they do.

 

GG. If you listen to these guys BW your PvP will be proven to be exactly what I think it is already: jack ****.

 

Also fun fact he forgot to mention that Assasins/Shadows can be immune to all Sorc/Sage damage and CC for 3 seconds.

 

I completely agree with you which is why I rolled a Sorc. This will be my spec:

http://knotor.com/skills#AgcAFxJLaXqCiZKaobK60ttieZOZoqq6y9oA

 

Ridiculous amount of utility and the synergy between these trees is beautiful. I'm just glad there are SO MANY sorc that BW won't touch them!

 

The thing is it is only TK which is lackluster. Full Balance is just as good as Hybrid, it just puts more emphasis on DoTs and self healing something the avarage QQer will never notice anyway because his tears are too clouded while trying to type in forums instead to learn to play.

By the way other classes also specc hybrid strange no one whines about that for Juggs/Guards for instant Choke/Stasis plus a second Jump just to name one of the many possibilties other classes have just as well.

Also other classes can burst in fact much higher sespecially single target and/or have higher consistent damage.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Vales

[mamosh]

--------------------------------------

 

Here is an example of a hybrid spec.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZfcMMdRbZcrcRsMk.1.

 

he is right my boyfriend who was a pure spec before tryed out this spec yesterday and all he does is PVP and is very good at it just with this spec his damage done jumped from normaly 300-350k to 500-600k insane spec

Edited February 9, 2012 by mamosh

[Tumri]

Here something I put up from a terrible Sorc player maybe it puts some perspective into all these whiners:

 

The guy you quoted was just spewing nonsense that showed how little he knew of other classes let alone his own. He also seemed to not be using the hybrid spec(which is the ONLY thing OP about sorcerers) since he didn't mention the 5s root on knockback or the 3s immobilize on bubble pop. The part where he said "marauders...AoE slows" made me laugh. He's even confusing ACs of other classes. If I were to argue with him I might as well say sorcs have stealth.

 

 

 

Also fun fact he forgot to mention that Assasins/Shadows can be immune to all Sorc/Sage damage and CC for 3 seconds.

 

 

 

The thing is it is only TK which is lackluster. Full Balance is just as good as Hybrid, it just puts more emphasis on DoTs and self healing something the avarage QQer will never notice anyway because his tears are too clouded while trying to type in forums instead to learn to play.

By the way other classes also specc hybrid strange no one whines about that for Juggs/Guards for instant Choke/Stasis plus a second Jump just to name one of the many possibilties other classes have just as well.

Also other classes can burst in fact much higher sespecially single target and/or have higher consistent damage.

 

If hybrid spec isn't even better than Madness/Balance then why would you care if JUST the utility talents were moved up the tree? All the sorc defenders saying "We don't even use those OP talents" aren't answering this question.

 

Hybrid juggs/guardians are mediocre at best. A large percentage of their damage and mitigation depends on their stance. They can only use one at a time and they lose all their rage when they switch. It's pretty bad.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Tumri

[Tumri]

I'm sorry...what is wrong with hybrids exactly? When have the devs said "hybrids are unintended" If you think that then we should not have specs at all but instead pick 1 of 3 set roles. There will be no different specs and you can be happy with your 31/0/0 specs I guess?

 

You are a joke. This forum is a joke. This game is quickly becoming a joke because of people such as yourself.

 

Let me make this abundantly clear...

 

I don't care if hybrid specs exist.

 

I care when those hybrid specs break the game by making a class disgustingly overpowered.

 

I'm not asking for an end to Sorcerer hybrids.

 

I just want the hybrids to not have access to the utility talents in Lightning so they're not so incredibly powerful compared to the 31-point specs.

 

In their current state they're overpowered in every way.

 

With this change people wouldn't feel stupid for NOT using a hybrid spec because right now anyone using a 31-point build is gimping themselves as Sorcerers.

 

With this change people would still have the option to spec hybrid and do the same damage, they just wouldn't have disgustingly overpowered utility from BOTH trees.

 

It's incredibly stupid for hybrids to be like some ultimate fusion of two specs that's far more overpowered than either 31-point build. This isn't Dragonball Z.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Tumri

[Nythain]

If hybrid spec isn't even better than Madness/Balance then why would you care if JUST the utility talents were moved up the tree?

 

I don't know what you proposed get moved up where, but as a 31 point madness sorcerer (yeah yeah, not as awesome dps, whatever) some of them become completely inaccessible to me, such as Exsanguinate (which is pretty much made to go hand in hand with madness) and Static Barrier (which is pretty much a must for almost any sorcerer builds).

 

Just moving utility up a tree isn't the best solution to balancing hybridization. Moving some abilities to different trees, changing some abilities in trees to either have different effects or require various other factors, and even outright strengthening/weakening abilities are all probably better solutions to balancing hybrids than just moving utility (which non hybrids also rely on) further up various trees. This is about the same sort of logic as the person who proposed to balance sorcerer/sage healing with merc/commando and whatever the agent/smuggler classes are, they should just cut the sorcerer/sage force pool down to 200 force and give it a 10 force per second regen.

[EthicsGradient]

One issue that bugs me a little is that it's so much easier for sorc/sage to top healing done meters in warzones due to the shield.

Shield absorb counts as healing done, but isn't reduced by pvp trauma debuff like all other heals are.

[Nythain]

One issue that bugs me a little is that it's so much easier for sorc/sage to top healing done meters in warzones due to the shield.

Shield absorb counts as healing done, but isn't reduced by pvp trauma debuff like all other heals are.

 

Jug/Whatever guard also counts as healing. It's implemented as a way for non healers to gain those medals too. It wouldn't be very fair if there were medals that only one specific spec/role/advance class could get their hands on. And honestly, a DPS spec'd sorcerer/sage is pretty much only gonna get healing points from the bubble... our heals when not spec'd are just about as fail as everyone elses heals when they aren't spec'd for it.

[Tadshackles]

I found some flaws in your breakdown... Here, I can fix it...

Merc/Commando having the same CC as a Sorc/Sage? Can I please come to your fantasy land? Because that statement is just factually untrue.

 

Just to compare:

 

Shield(Insta cast heal, awesome scaling, appliable to others, run speed buff(talented)) -> TRACER MISSLE

aoe knockback(20s cooldown, 8m range), with talents immoblizes for up to 5s, unlimited targets -> TRACER MISSLE

speed boost -> TRACER MISSLE

30m 6s slow, 12s cooldown -> TRACER MISSLE

30m Ranged Interupt, 4s(6s talented) lockout, 12s cooldown-> TRACER MISSLE

Extrication -> TRACER MISSLE

4s stun 60s cooldown(50s talented), deals damage -> TRACER MISSLE

3s 50% channeled slow -> TRACER MISSLE

force armor aoe sleep(talented) -> TRACER MISSLE

in combat rez -> TRACER MISSLE

 

FIXT.

[Vales]

Let me make this abundantly clear...

 

I don't care if hybrid specs exist.

 

I care when those hybrid specs break the game by making a class disgustingly overpowered.

 

I'm not asking for an end to Sorcerer hybrids.

 

I just want the hybrids to not have access to the utility talents in Lightning so they're not so incredibly powerful compared to the 31-point specs.

 

In their current state they're overpowered in every way.

 

With this change people wouldn't feel stupid for NOT using a hybrid spec because right now anyone using a 31-point build is gimping themselves as Sorcerers.

 

With this change people would still have the option to spec hybrid and do the same damage, they just wouldn't have disgustingly overpowered utility from BOTH trees.

 

It's incredibly stupid for hybrids to be like some ultimate fusion of two specs that's far more overpowered than either 31-point build. This isn't Dragonball Z.

 

More rubbish.

[Vales]

Just wanted to add:

 

That's how Sents/Maras can destroy Sorcs/Sages.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Vales

[Tumri]

Just wanted to add:

 

That's how Sents/Maras can destroy Sorcs/Sages.

 

Did you even pay attention to what he did in the video or did you just google "Sentinel Marauder Killing"? He's in full PvP gear killing hilariously bad players in greens/blues. Right at the start of the video he solo's two Marauders as a Sentinel because of his gear and the incredibly obvious skill gap. He then goes on to entirely different games and shows clips where he faces some quadriplegic players rolling their faces on their keyboards.

 

 

I don't know what you proposed get moved up where, but as a 31 point madness sorcerer (yeah yeah, not as awesome dps, whatever) some of them become completely inaccessible to me, such as Exsanguinate (which is pretty much made to go hand in hand with madness) and Static Barrier (which is pretty much a must for almost any sorcerer builds).

 

Just moving utility up a tree isn't the best solution to balancing hybridization. Moving some abilities to different trees, changing some abilities in trees to either have different effects or require various other factors, and even outright strengthening/weakening abilities are all probably better solutions to balancing hybrids than just moving utility (which non hybrids also rely on) further up various trees. This is about the same sort of logic as the person who proposed to balance sorcerer/sage healing with merc/commando and whatever the agent/smuggler classes are, they should just cut the sorcerer/sage force pool down to 200 force and give it a 10 force per second regen.

 

 

I'm not proposing a change to any of the talents 31-point specs need. Electric Bindings for example is only available to those that hybrid or play a full lightning spec. Backlash is hilariously overpowered in the hands of a mobile character. I -DO NOT- want 31-point specs to be nerfed in ANY way. It's the hybrid spec that's OP. The reason for this is that the hybrid has more damage than either 31-point specs while also having even MORE mobility than madness, even MORE burst than lightning, and even MORE control than either spec. It's too much.

 

 

---

 

@Vales - You can't just cry and say you "I LIKE IT SO IT SHOULD STAY THE SAME". That's stupid. It's pretty obvious you're raging at the thought of hybrid specs being brought down to the level of every other class. It was cute at first but now you're just spamming overly defensive BS. Either write informative/intelligent posts or stay out of my thread.

 

P.S. - After watching the entire video I noticed not a single sorc was hybrid spec. I also saw a lot of them keyboard turning. Try harder.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Tumri

[ColdStormx]

Let me make this abundantly clear...

I don't care if hybrid specs exist.

 

I care when those hybrid specs break the game by making a class disgustingly overpowered.

 

I'm not asking for an end to Sorcerer hybrids.

 

I just want the hybrids to not have access to the utility talents in Lightning so they're not so incredibly powerful compared to the 31-point specs.

 

In their current state they're overpowered in every way.

 

With this change people wouldn't feel stupid for NOT using a hybrid spec because right now anyone using a 31-point build is gimping themselves as Sorcerers.

 

With this change people would still have the option to spec hybrid and do the same damage, they just wouldn't have disgustingly overpowered utility from BOTH trees.

 

It's incredibly stupid for hybrids to be like some ultimate fusion of two specs that's far more overpowered than either 31-point build. This isn't Dragonball Z.

 

Why back peddle on what you are saying? You keep claiming you don't want to nerf hybrids and you are all for them but go right back into saying they need changing and anyone who takes the time to create a spec from more than 1 tree by picking and choosing the best they can with the limited number of points we have may as well be cheating the system. I am sorry you picked a class that has either forced you down the road 31 point talents only but some of us like to pick talents from multiple trees! (omg I know.....)

 

You need to reroll a class that makes you happy as you are obviously locked into one that is not suited for the play style that you require.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Paralassa
removed insults

[Tumri]

Why back peddle on what you are saying? You keep claiming you don't want to nerf hybrids and you are all for them but go right back into saying they need changing and anyone who takes the time to create a spec from more than 1 tree by picking and choosing the best they can with the limited number of points we have may as well be cheating the system. I am sorry you picked a class that has either forced you down the road 31 point talents only or that's all your tiny mind can handle but some of us like to pick talents from multiple trees! (omg I know.....)

 

You need to reroll a class that makes you happy as you are obviously locked into one that is not suited for the play style that you require. (brain dead drone)

 

Also your huge font stunt only make your mega douche status more apparent.

 

Petty insults seem to be all the sorc community can add to this thread.

 

Marauders are far more difficult than Sorc could ever be just FYI. I really don't know what the Brain Dead Drone part is about. Are you saying I'm a drone for not making a hybrid spec as a Marauder or something? Those don't work with the stance system. I tried at launch and it was terrible. We have 3 full DPS trees though.

 

I don't care that Sorcs have hybrid options. I care that their hybrid options make them overpowered. They're cheating the system by taking talents the devs obviously overlooked from a hybrid standpoint. Moving the Utility talents up the tree doesn't kill the hybrid. It brings them closer to being balanced. It also doesn't change their viability from a PvE standpoint.

 

It's apparent you want to be overpowered. That's something I'm saying "NO" to.

 

You seem to think having a stupidly overpowered hybrid spec adds more flavor or choice. It doesn't. It locks people into a hybrid that's so powerful that 31-point specs look like something only a moron would use.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Tumri

[Crossbwnz]

Oh, look. Thread number 10 000 about how somebody got destroyed by some class in PvP and decided to make a topic about it.

 

I concur.

 

Hmmm.. It's a mage class like other MMOs.. meaning they have to stand still to do most of their damage.... so if i interrupt them and cc them while they are casting... it should.. cause.... no... damage?

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm