Methenu Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Planetside 2 will be out this year. Skill-based FPS MMO with character progression and open world PVP objectives. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient_karp Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Planetside 2 will be out this year. Skill-based FPS MMO with character progression and open world PVP objectives. /thread Planetside 1 was fun for a month IF you had a dedicated team to play with. I'm not going to hold my breath on the sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Because the gear is what makes an RPG? Since when? Ever since WoW took gear inflation/welfare epics to a new level. Now people take the high-ground of "this is right because it worked for WoW", even though other companies have tried to copy it and failed. Sadly, I'm sure that if Blizzard made a sandbox MMO that it would be crazy popular also, but I digress. It makes sense at a glance, but with that sort of logic every MMOs should plan to add Pandas at some point. The extra stupid thing is expecting the infinite gear treadmill to work for any game like it did for WoW, whenever that game doesn't have other key components that WoW has. It's like taking a nice engine that is proven to perform and putting it in the wrong kind of car. Battlegroups, arenas/rating, and thus match-making with a massive pool of players are like the intake, the exhaust, and the fuel. Edited February 1, 2012 by BDutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SourD Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Do any classes in this game have reactionary abilities? Like off of dodge, parry, etc? I miss that aspect of gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indelible Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 LOL Guild Wars IS gear based PvP. The only reason people think it isn't is because ArenaNet offset their "carrot on a stick" mechanics with "you can buy it all for one price through our cash shop". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greennunu Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 There are many skill based PvP games out there. Street Fighter, Mortal Combat, Tekken, ect ect... Or did all the flunkies from there rush over to the MMO in hopes they can find glory elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagaNerezza Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It's hard to make a mmo with good pvp that doesn't rely on gear, i mean people get bored when there's nothing to work towards. PvPer's need a gear goal. It shouldn't be a 20% statistical advantage. Arguing at this point whether pvp gear should have an advantage is irrational. The developers/designers/bosses made that decision. It's asking they make it reasonable for everyone that has to combat these players to not feel like the effort is a pointless endeavor. Now I have zero experience in the 50 bracket. I know enough people who do and its the same issue. Expertise is broken. I am about to get there on my main and have 1000/1000 for bags. I am at 26ish rank. I heard enough and read enough. I even have a plan to get that 250 expertise with the 46 pvp weapons if I find it unbearable to play in the bracket. My List Ranking System Meaningful Guilds Social Aspect Meaningful World Based PvP Better Combat Mechanics More Viable Tactics I won't cry nerf, but there is a few professions that have multiple rolls/abilities that make it appear impossible for them to balance. As most developers find once they think they can be the ones to figure out hybrid classes. Its next to impossible to let someone play a tank/healer or dps/healer. You don't want them to be ineffective in either roll and if someone chooses the role that was secondary they always complain about it and request it be fixed. So you end up with 1 very powerful list of special abilities. That is BH and Inquizator in a nutshell. Now I am not here to QQ these horses, but just pointing on that there is fundamental design issue. I can go up multiple skill trees and advance both heal and damage. Then you have the CC issues. I am just going to tell you that CC makes your game feel laggy. People do not fundamentally like having movement stopped or slowed in today's games. You have to realize the console markets influence is dictating your expectations and frankly these people don't understand the mechanics or need of CC. It means you need to make your combat system able to have cc like abilities in pvp without movement impairment. Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) There are many skill based PvP games out there. Street Fighter, Mortal Combat, Tekken, ect ect... Or did all the flunkies from there rush over to the MMO in hopes they can find glory elsewhere? That makes even less sense than people saying "play an FPS instead". RPG combat/team play is about as close to FPS gameplay as it is to a RTS. You might as well tell people trying to play flag football that they need to put on pads get serious or play golf instead. Edited February 1, 2012 by BDutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hardcore PvP is all about one thing: Prestige MMOs have made the mistake* of conditioning their players to believe that gear = prestige. * I say "mistake" from a player's perspective. The idea of creating a grind is a good idea from the developer's perspective, though gear is still a bad idea as it causes imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagimpster Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 or instead of complaing use this time to get your own gear... in 2 months when everyone is Battlemaster the pvp is skill based.. its the start up that is gear based Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redderic Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 best pvp game based on skill vs gear was and always will be old school UO. if you had gear congrats i would kill you and take it. then i had your gear in my bank collecting dust and your head locked down on my porch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greennunu Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 That makes even less sense than people saying "play an FPS instead". RPG combat/team play is about as close to FPS gameplay as it is to a RTS. You might as well tell people trying to play flag football that they need to put on pads get serious or play golf instead. That makes no sense, if you wore pads to play golf then it becomes gear related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meko Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 These games are essentially role playing games, WoW, Tor, even that old Everquest (is that even still alive?) PVP is not the purpose of the game, it is an optional aspect of the game. All I am hearing on here is people complaining about 'unfair' advantage of other players having better gear because they worked for it. If you had two gladiators in ancient rome facing off would one of them say hey this is unfair because he only spent 10 days training for the fight while the other guy spent 6 months? No thats on him for not going out and training for it and its no diffrent in MMO's. You can't just jump in and be given all the same stuff that other guy spent weeks putting together, how about you leave the pvp arena, go out and explore the world, practice your timing, learning your hotkeys, rebinding your buttons, learn your rotations, remember your CC's, visualize your CC-breakers and practice all that on a few hundred npcs untill you can do it blindfolded and then come back when you got some better gear from all your adventures and then you will be that guy you are complaining about. If you are not willing to work for your stuff you shouldn't be playing these types of MMO's at all. I joined a hutball match as a level 11 murader who barely understood most his skills, had completely inappropiate hotkeys (aftersight) for what I should of been focusing on in pvp and while fighting against people in their 20's and 30's thanks to the balancing system in TOR I finished a few spots up from the middle in everything a muaradar does. kills, damage, ball carrier kills, the only difference I seen was my obvious lack of abilities I have not unlocked yet so guess what? I need to go out into that vast semi-open world and learn my classes abilities, unlock the ones I need, learn my talent tree, get some better gear, build some better lightsabers and then come back when I can more proactively deal with all the stuns, throws, grenades and grappling hooks. Complaining because your too lazy to work is a terrible position to have in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretha Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The people that want skill-based PvP are the people that enjoy PvP for PvP's sake. The problem is that's a small minority of the customer base. Catering to us would be business suicide. You better warn EA before they throw any more money on Warhammer Online fused with Team Fortress 2 (aka Warhammer Wrath of Heroes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Is that all you have to say? Go dwell on the past some more. Like that one time you almost topped the charts in something. Ah... the pee-bottle delusion. You see, what he is trying to explain to you is that YOU are not topping the charts at anything. YOUR GEAR is. And that is not a measure of anything but one's patience and free time grinding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shendaar Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) LOL Guild Wars IS gear based PvP. The only reason people think it isn't is because ArenaNet offset their "carrot on a stick" mechanics with "you can buy it all for one price through our cash shop". A small price to pay considering the game has no monthly fee. Even then you would unlock most of the good stuff just doing PvE anyway. The point is that there is a way out of the "grind" and for the vast majority of the players, getting your gear was a non-issue. Guild vs Guild in GW is the best PvP in any RPG/MMO that I have seen. The skill cap is so high that it is pretty much the reason why it is dying now. Edited February 1, 2012 by Shendaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 All I am hearing on here is people complaining about 'unfair' advantage of other players having better gear because they worked for it. If you had two gladiators in ancient rome facing off would one of them say hey this is unfair because he only spent 10 days training for the fight while the other guy spent 6 months? No thats on him for not going out and training for it and its no diffrent in MMO's. You can't just jump in and be given all the same stuff that other guy spent weeks putting together Your analogy is terrible. Here's what actually happens. You are a skilled gladiator in ancient rome, but this is only your second fight. You're facing an older gladiator who has been fighting for 6 months. You get a sword and shield, but because your opponent has fought for 6 months, he starts out with a gun. FIGHT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Your analogy is terrible. Here's what actually happens. You are a skilled gladiator in ancient rome, but this is only your second fight. You're facing an older gladiator who has been fighting for 6 months. You get a sword and shield, but because your opponent has fought for 6 months, he starts out with a gun. FIGHT! That's... quite an analogy I think an easier example is: WoW's tournament servers give everyone the same gear for Blizzard's arena tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzeentcho Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 These games are essentially role playing games, WoW, Tor, even that old Everquest (is that even still alive?) PVP is not the purpose of the game, it is an optional aspect of the game. All I am hearing on here is people complaining about 'unfair' advantage of other players having better gear because they worked for it. If you had two gladiators in ancient rome facing off would one of them say hey this is unfair because he only spent 10 days training for the fight while the other guy spent 6 months? No thats on him for not going out and training for it and its no diffrent in MMO's. You can't just jump in and be given all the same stuff that other guy spent weeks putting together, how about you leave the pvp arena, go out and explore the world, practice your timing, learning your hotkeys, rebinding your buttons, learn your rotations, remember your CC's, visualize your CC-breakers and practice all that on a few hundred npcs untill you can do it blindfolded and then come back when you got some better gear from all your adventures and then you will be that guy you are complaining about. If you are not willing to work for your stuff you shouldn't be playing these types of MMO's at all. I joined a hutball match as a level 11 murader who barely understood most his skills, had completely inappropiate hotkeys (aftersight) for what I should of been focusing on in pvp and while fighting against people in their 20's and 30's thanks to the balancing system in TOR I finished a few spots up from the middle in everything a muaradar does. kills, damage, ball carrier kills, the only difference I seen was my obvious lack of abilities I have not unlocked yet so guess what? I need to go out into that vast semi-open world and learn my classes abilities, unlock the ones I need, learn my talent tree, get some better gear, build some better lightsabers and then come back when I can more proactively deal with all the stuns, throws, grenades and grappling hooks. Complaining because your too lazy to work is a terrible position to have in life. Your post makes no sense. You clearly have no idea how PvP gear is obtained in this game. You can "work" towards getting PvP gear for twice as long as another guy, but because it's purely luck based you can end up with less gear than him. Then, because the game is completely gear based, you're stuck at a disadvantage because of BAD LUCK. Time invested and skill factor play NO part in obtaining gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunari Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I personally would work toward vanity items, experience and in-game currency. I PvP mostly for fun so I would trade the gear grind for a skill based combat system any day of the week. If gear only accounted for 10% of a players damage output then it would be a non-issue. It would be 90% skill and 10% gear but most MMO developers are silly imo and always go for the 50/50 route. PvP is suppose to be about player vs player anyhow, not gear vs gear. ^^- Plus 10000000 to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 That's... quite an analogy I think an easier example is: WoW's tournament servers give everyone the same gear for Blizzard's arena tournaments. You need to pay extra for that too, thats another fee above the $15 monthly fee. Also, I believe you receive real life rewards too. If SWTOR had a ladder tournament where the #1 team got a $1000 USD prize, then yes, gear should be equalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannythefool Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) All I am hearing on here is people complaining about 'unfair' advantage of other players having better gear because they worked for it. If you had two gladiators in ancient rome facing off would one of them say hey this is unfair because he only spent 10 days training for the fight while the other guy spent 6 months? Actually the way that translates to SWTOR is one gladiator who trained 10 days, powerleveled to 50 and got his first few pieces of champion gear (after 10 days you potentially completed two weeklies and several dailies). The other actually played the game for 50 levels, but even if he didn't do anything but PVP, he would have no gear to show for it. However, the other player with ten days of training gets a mechanical advantage. Comparing gear grind to training, or working for your victories, IMHO just shows that you don't fully grasp how the system works. In a perfect world you would maybe train for six months and then be better, by way of your skill and experience you acquired during these six months, than someone else who just did it for ten days. In SWTOR and MMOs with similar systems, instead you find yourself on a pre-destined path to greatness, you don't actually have to train, you just have to sit through a specific amount of time, and then you get a mechanical advantage over players who did not do that yet. The system is making you feel like you got better, when in reality you didn't, because you're winning with help from a mechanical advantage and not skill or experience you acquired through training. And everybody gets the exact same canned experience completely regardless of actual skill, experience, or effort. This is what people complain about. Half these complaints aren't even about having the disadvantage. Having the mechanical advantage is just about as bad because you can't honestly look at your face in the mirror and say to yourself that actually got better at the game. You win more often, but you know it's because you have an advantage that solely comes from spent time, not actual effort you put in. Edited February 1, 2012 by dannythefool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lydeck Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I can't believe I just read some PvP kiddy getting on someone for "being lazy" and not "wanting to work" by playing a video game for 5+ hours a day to grind out Battlemaster gear so they won't get facerolled. Oh people of the internets, I love you so. Fact of the matter is that gear based PvP is total trash. That's why 49 and below is extremely fun, and once you hit level 50 the PvP turns into a gigantic **** sandwich. As far as the carrot-on-stick thing people are talking about, you could easily turn the PvP gear into a cosmetic reward rather than a statistical one. Of course I'm sure people wouldn't like that, because God forbid PvP be based anything other than how much of a life you don't have. Edited February 1, 2012 by Lydeck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) It's time people just kept reminding these individuals who seek a vehicle to shield themselves from insecurity about how pathetic their lives at home are that just because they spent hours grinding out gear that they are not actually "good" at anything. That they are not "accomplishing" anything resembling competition. They get all elitist, pat each other on the back and set up the ego boost circle jerk. It actually reminds me of a strange bastard child of the behavior of jocks in high school only replacing roid rage with nerd rage. (And at least sports require real work and skill). They come to MMO's and see a chance to click buttons rather then doing push ups and sit ups and practicing a real set of skills. They want the fact that they don't have girlfriends or social lives to be something that makes them strong instead of weak. It's pathetic. If a guy picks up a gun and shoots a 8th degree black belt in Karate he did nothing that measured any skill. He was lucky enough to have a piece of gear. Bioware. Take note. People are leaving the 50's bracket to RE-ROLL new characters because PVP is more enjoyable WITHOUT gearflation. This is pretty obvious. Edited February 1, 2012 by Torleen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copasetic Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I don't know if you realized this, but there are Quests, Flashpoints, etc where you can get better gear in the game. So, you are basically asking that everyone PVP's in the same gear and everyone is "equalized". So then, what would be the point of PVP bags, WZ and Merc Commendations then? Whats the point of PVP gear if everyone has the same gear. Go ahead and tell yourself GW2 won't be gear based either. the only games where PVP or competition is NOT gear based are Console Games. "Standardized Gear" in PvP means nobody has a huge advantage from having better gear, such as Battlemaster gear with far more expertise and stats than any other gear. By standardizing it, everyone is on an equal playing field and the only way to defeat the opposing team is through strong teamwork and coordination. My ideal PvP system would be to standardize all PvP gear. Whenever a player enters a Warzone and is in the 2 minute "waiting zone" before the WZ begins, the player must choose a set of gear from multiple different choices. Each set of gear will have different itemization stats so that the player can decide which role he wants to fulfill, such as more Endurance to be tankier or more Strength/Cunning to do more DPS or more Willpower to have more Force to heal more. The stats from these sets of gear will also change depending on what class the player is playing (Sith Warriors obviously need more Endurance/Strength while Bounty Hunters need Aim/Endurance). This appeals to both PvE players that raid every day and have far better PvE gear than other players and PvP players that do Warzones all day and have full Battlemaster gear. Both of these types of players will be on the same playing field when they enter a Warzone due to having standardized gear. The rewards for winning Warzones and gaining Valor can be cosmetic rewards, such as unique looking sets of gear that are still standardized with the other sets, unique titles that can only be gained once, unique mounts and/or social gear, unique schematics for gear that only that player would be able to create and sell, etc. The rewards are fine as long as rewards aren't giving distinct advantages over other players in PvP. Edited February 1, 2012 by copasetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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