I don't care about how a race looks and you shouldn't either. I'm sure there are plenty of prepubescent kiddies that will love to roll one of them but I couldn't care less. I only care about the gameplay and PvP both of which I thoroughly enjoyed.

Umm did we play the same game? My friends and I found the leveling to be very good in the last closed beta weekend. I went from 1-22 in about 5 or 6 hours. And from what I hear from my friends that play KTera, the leveling curve stays roughly the same to 58 (now 60). The grind is nowhere near as bad Aion was don't blindly assume it's going to be the same.

I actually enjoy not being able to cancel an attack because it means you are forced to use each ability carefully and wisely instead of blindly using any ability you see that comes off cooldown. If you see an opening for a long animation ability, you better be certain you can aim it correctly and land it. This is just another element of skill in the game and if you don't want to adapt, then don't play it. And your point about dodging boss special attacks being too easy, this doesn't bother me at all considering I never said anything about the PvE in the game. I'll judge that once I've tried it more. But from the PvP I've done, I really enjoyed how skill based it was due to having to aim everything.

Actually, I'm more looking forward to Tera Online than GW2. After playing in the last Closed Beta test for Tera, I'm really enjoying the combat system and the PvP. The Guild vs Guild feature is something I'll never get tired of. I only mentioned GW2 because I know a lot of people are looking forward to it.

OP you are 100% correct. I seriously doubted Bioware would be this dumb but it appears they proved me wrong once again. See this link for proof: http://i42.tinypic.com/jzf708.png "Solo Ranked" and "Party Ranked" Bioware said 8 man Ops groups queuing is not going to be in 1.2. Here is a quote from a guy blogging the entire event: ranked warzone: full 8 people group allowed. timeline is TBD. Timeline TBD so for all we know, 8 man Ops ranked queue may not be till May or even June. By then, Tera Online will have been released and Guild Wars 2 is not far behind. GG Bioware. It was fun while it lasted.

They said it's not going to be in 1.2. Here is a quote from a guy blogging the entire event: ranked warzone: full 8 people group allowed. timeline is TBD. Timeline TBD so for all we know, 8 man Ops ranked queue may not be till May or even June. GG Bioware. It was fun while it lasted.

Hahahaha Bioware never ceases to amaze with their decision making. I think they are honestly trying to kill off their entire PvP population. I guess they are trying to keep enticing PvP players with promises of awesome additions that are coming "in the future." If 8 man Ops groups can't queue at the release of 1.2, there will be plenty of more unsubs coming your way Bioware.

I agree OP. You're right. The sad part is how they can't simply admit their failure with Ilum. I've lost all hope for Biowares PvP team and keeping telling myself that GW2 or even Tera (thank god US Closed Beta is next weekend again) can't come soon enough.

OP you are 100% correct. I seriously doubted Bioware would be this dumb but it appears they proved me wrong once again. See this link for proof: http://i42.tinypic.com/jzf708.png "Solo Ranked" and "Party Ranked" Unless Bioware suddenly changed the meaning of "Party" from a group of four to an Operations group of 8, they are NOT allowing 8 man Ops groups to queue. I don't understand why they aren't at least having the OPTION to specifically queue against other 8 man Ops groups. Why not satisfy everyone and give Solo Ranked, Party Ranked, and Ops Ranked? More options can never hurt.

[quote name='Noldat']What about the screenshot confirms the 4 person only?[/QUOTE] The fact that the screenshot only shows "Solo Ranked" and "Party Ranked" means there is no option for "Operations Ranked." A Party consist of FOUR people. Party =/= Operations Unless their UI is worded incorrectly or if Bioware suddenly changed the meaning of "Party" so that it means 8 man Operations groups, then I think it is safe to assume they aren't including 8 man Operations groups to queue.

I suggest you all read this carefully since it seems many of you are overlooking this: http://i42.tinypic.com/jzf708.png And this screenshot just confirmed my fears and might be the final nail in the coffin for SWToR for me. I kept thinking that BW can't be that dumb and would not allow full Operations to queue for Ranked Warzones but it seems I was wrong. It's already bad enough that you can't queue with more than 4 friends in WZs. But not allowing full 8 man Operations to queue for Ranked Warzones thus removing any incentive to keep playing? Sorry Bioware but this was the last straw for me. I'm sure others are thrilled about solo queue Ranked Warzones but I just can't keep overlooking Biowares mistakes. Why not at least add the OPTION to queue only against other 8 man Ops groups? More options never hurts.

Yep. And this just put the nail in the coffin in SWToR for me. I can understand having a solo ranked queue and a four man group ranked queue but why not at least give the OPTION of an 8 man Ops group (full guild/friends premade) queue? Bioware has been killing themselves over the past couple months (especially with all their "Ilum fixes" rofl) and this may be the final straw.

SWToR has already failed considering the majority of the stuff in 1.2 should have been in the game at launch. I love how James Ohlen is saying that 1.2 is going to be the biggest patch in any MMO yet it looks to still fail so hard. - Legacy system is basically useless for endgame. Who cares about a few extra races when races don't mean anything anyway (no racial skills/perks/benefits)? Legacy abilities only usable in PvE while leveling so this is pointless. Mailbox in ship saves me about a minute of time. Target dummy in ship to test my DPS without a combat log is pointless as well. I guess I can look closely at the numbers and keep writing them down on a piece of paper/put in an Excel spreadsheet? - Rated Warzones are going to be limited to two separate four man groups thus not allowing 8 man Operations (full guild/friends premade) to queue. This was the big nail in the coffin for me. - New Warzone will become stale in a couple days, especially if you already have Battlemaster gear. - New Operation will most likely too easy. It wouldn't surprise me if guilds started on Nightmare right away and cleared it in one night. - New Flashpoint is useless. Why run Flashpoints anymore when once you get in a raiding guild, you get all the gear/Biometric Alloy you need?

Surprised more people aren't noticing the fact that BW is not allowing 8 man Ops groups (full premade) for Rated Warzones and are instead doing two separate groups of four. I don't mind them allowing the option for a group of four to queue but why not allow a 8 man Ops to queue? They could even add an 8 man only queue specifically for these. I just don't understand why they aren't doing this.

1.2 is basically a huge fail for me so far and is the final nail in the coffin for SWToR. The biggest fault I've seen with 1.2 that is killing my hope for this game is the fact that full 8 man Operations not allowed to queue for Rated Warzones and it is instead going to be two separate groups of 4.

OP, you can't compare an MMORPG to an FPS or RTS, especially when both Counter-Strike and Starcraft are the premiere competitive games in e-sports. I'm not going to dive too much into Starcraft since I've never played it seriously but what I will say that it has going is a very well done ladder system. Every single ranked game you play matters as you keep climbing that ladder of whatever division you are in. It gives you that sense of accomplishment when you finally move out of the Silver to Gold or Gold to whatever is above that. This is non-existent in SWToR. I realize the Ranked Warzones are suppose to replicate this feeling but after seeing that they aren't allowing full 8 man Operations to queue, I'm already very disappointed in BW. Pubbing in CS was always fun because CS is a game that has a relatively large skill ceiling. This means once you got good enough to a certain point, you could single-handily dominate any public server/pick up game/match. That rush of adrenaline you get when you win a 1v3 while defusing the bomb is something that you can ONLY feel in CS and is one of the many reasons why I played that game for so long. You can't replicate that feeling or is there anything remotely close to this in an MMORPG. It isn't possible because SWToR isn't a very skill-heavy game. There is very little skill involved other than knowing your rotations to maximize DPS and survivability, knowing how to LoS, and knowing who to focus and what objective needs focusing. All of this is mainly knowledge-based skill. The problem with knowledge-based skill is that it can't win you a Warzone all by yourself. You can find the proof of this by looking at any of those e-peen screenshots people have posted showing off their 900k+ damage or healing in a Warzone that they LOST. Since this feeling of accomplishment of knowing you are improving (ladder system) or rush of adrenaline of winning a crucial fight (CS clutch situations) don't exist in SWToR, the only real incentive for me to PvP is for the pure enjoyment of PvP and the next tier of gear. Once I got the majority of my BM gear, the enjoyment of PvP could only keep me going for so long before I got bored.

I play for a challenge. All of the current Operations aren't challenging at all. The level of satisfaction you feel after downing a very difficult boss that has given your guild trouble for weeks is something you really can't describe. That feeling doesn't exist in this game. I hate to use WoW as an example but I'm being forced to. When Ulduar first came out in WoW, this is when they first introduced Hard Modes (correct me if I'm wrong). In order to stand a chance against Hard Modes, you NEEDED to have the necessary gear in order to meet DPS requirements (killing the boss before he enrages) and to meet the HP requirements to survive some of the fights mechanics. Both of these are gained through acquiring better gear. These fights were very difficult and often took WEEKS just to kill one boss. Not to mention the fact that the gear you received from these Hard Mode bosses were far better than your current gear unlike in SWToR where Rakata/Battlemaster gear are barely considered upgrades (and sometimes downgrades depending on the horrid itemization of mods). In one NIGHT of raiding Operations in SWToR, we could clear Nightmare Mode of both Karagga's and Eternity Vault (assuming our Soa attempts were bug-free which is extremely rare).

Thank you for posting this. I was waiting for someone to do this. And this screenshot just confirmed my fears and might be the final nail in the coffin for SWToR for me. I kept thinking that BW can't be that dumb and would not allow full Operations to queue for Ranked Warzones but it seems I was wrong. It's already bad enough that you can't queue with more than 4 friends in WZs. But not allowing full 8 man Operations to queue for Ranked Warzones thus removing any incentive to keep playing? Sorry Bioware but this was the last straw for me. I'm sure others are thrilled about solo queue Ranked Warzones but I just can't keep overlooking Biowares mistakes.

Flashpoint - Don't need to bother with at all if you're in a raiding guild. You can get all the gear you need from normal/hard runs of any current Operation. I stopped doing FPs the second I started raiding. I hate to use WoW as an example but at least in WoW, instances were still worth running since you could use the tokens for dual spec gear/Biometric Alloy equivalent/crafting materials/Reputation for more gear or crafting stuff/etc. Operation - Will most likely be extremely buggy with annoying issues that I expect to be similar to Soa's issues (that they still haven't fixed yet, btw). Warzone - Sure it will be fun for the first couple days but will quickly become dull and boring once you realize there's no point in doing this, especially if you're already decked in Battlemaster gear. Rated Warzones are what BW should be focusing on and it looks like they are already failing in this category since as everyone feared, they are only allowing Parties to queue instead of Operations (meaning two separate premades instead of one Operation).

This guy said it best. Who cares about this? Leveling is already a joke as its incredibly easy to hit 50. They should be focusing on ways to make endgame more worthwhile through the Legacy system instead of making an already easy-to-level MMO even easier.

Hah that's a nice catch. I even paused on that specific part to get a better look at the PvP box details and still couldn't read it due to this work computer being so bad I'm extremely disappointed if this is true. And I agree with what a few other posters have said that everything BW is announcing in 1.2 should have been in the game at release. The problem isn't the amount of the endgame content the game had at release. The problem is that the content is too easy and is quickly consumed by even your average MMO player. Wait for it.......here it comes...the typical response to this: "Maybe you should stop playing and get a life! I've played for X amount of hours on my main, have X amount of alts at max level, and am enjoying all the story!" What you fail to realize is that every casual MMO player I know that played/plays SWToR agrees that the content is far too easy. What's the point of Normal/Hard/Nightmare modes when they are basically all the same? The only notable difference is bosses do a bit more damage and have a bit more HP. The only boss we had trouble with on Nightmare was Soa and that was mainly due to how buggy the encounter is. The first non-buggy attempt we had was a kill. PvP-wise, they should have had some form of Ranked Warzones or Stat Tracking system in place already. There really is no point to doing WZs once you get the majority of your BM pieces. The few who do continue PvPing past Valor Rank 60/70 for the pure enjoyment of PvP itself are a very small minority. The majority of us need some other incentive to keep playing, such as a simple Stat Tracking/Ladder system. What makes this even worse is how easy BW is making it to achieve Valor Rank 60. With Ilum and the new WZ changes, you can get it far faster than you could before Valor gains were added to Ilum and you had to grind WZ after WZ. If what the above poster said in the quote is true, this will be the final nail in the coffin for SWToR for me. That is simply unacceptable. And I'm not even going to get into how big of a fail Ilum was/is. The UI customization should have been in at launch although this one doesn't matter to me that much since I've never had any issues with the UI. The only part of this patch that I can understand needing time to polish is the Legacy system. I don't care about the new Flashpoint at all since there's absolutely no reason to run them if you're in a raiding guild. You get all the gear/Alloy you need from raids so whats the point in running Flashpoints? I expect the new Operation to once again be far too easy with guilds clearing hard/nightmare modes in the first week.

Not going to comment on other peoples builds but instead will simply post mine and the reasoning behind it: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cZhMoZGMRbdrMdGR.1 I feel this build gives me enough Rage generation between Sundering Assault, Unyielding (as a Rage Jugg, you are "stunned, put to sleep, and knocked down" very often), and 2/2 in Relentless while still maximizing my damage between Smashes and Force Screams. I can consistently do above 400k damage as long as the WZs aren't complete stomps with my highest (post surge nerf) being 712k. I'll go into a few of the questionable abilities I skipped on: Payback - I have around 16.7k fully buffed HP in full Battlemaster except offhand, relics, and headpiece. Payback will heal me for 1670 HP and 3340 if it crits. I feel this isn't enough to justify putting 2 points into it (and to the one build someone linked where they had 1/2 in Payback: why in the world would you do this? This is a talent you where you either go 2/2 or 0/2). This 1670 health is worth about one special ability attack from any class and the 3340 is worth around 2 or 3 special abilities. This will give you a few more seconds of survivability. I understand that these few more seconds could be the difference between living and dying in certain situations but these scenarios are extremely rare and most often you will die quickly in a group (assuming you're actually fighting near an objective). Brutality - Not worth it at all, even as a rage dump. I hardly ever use Vicious Slash. The only times I do are when I don't have 4 Shockwave charges and my Force Crush and Choke are on CD, Force Scream is on CD, and Ravage is on CD. Relentless 2/2 and Unyielding 1/2 and Sundering Throw 2/2 - These combined give me plenty of Rage both for my opener after using Enrage/Sundering Throw and after my opener during the fight when I'm getting CC'd/slept/etc. I am never rage starved. This is why I feel like I don't need 2/2 in Enraged Sunder. The 2/2 in Improved Sundering Assault also allow me to quickly put up Sunder stacks for my teammates as well (instant 4/5 stacks with Sundering Throw). Unbreakable Rage - Garbage talent. If you're smart and know when to use Ravage, it shouldn't be interrupted anyway. The only way it should be interrupted is if they run out of range or if someone else interrupts you to help his teammate. Gravity - I'm only mentioning this because I've seen a few builds without a point in this. You guys do realize this ability lowers the rage cost of Force Crush by one since it is considered a slow right? I admit that I wasn't aware of this when I first started speccing Rage and want to be certain you guys are not making the same mistake I was. Force Choke - Just like Gravity, I just want to touch on this talent. This is an absolute must-have if you want to maximize damage. Think about it. This talent reduces the cooldown of Force Choke which reduces the time it takes to gain 4 stacks of Shockwave which means more frequent fully buffed Smashes. That 10 seconds shaved off on each Choke adds up and can make a considerable difference in total damage. Battle Cry - My Force Screams can crit for up to around 3600. This is nothing to laugh at, especially if its after a 4.5-5k Smash. That is nearly 9000 damage in a span of seconds. Being able to combo a Smash and Scream (when it crits) is often enough for me to get enemies low enough for a Vicious Slash to finish them off. Even if the Scream doesn't crit, its a nice extra ability to use after every leap for free. I thought of this way: what talent would I put these 3 points in if I didn't get Battle Cry? Probably Dreadnaught for higher Smash damage and I guess 2/2 in Unyielding for even more rage generation? I felt the constant Screams add up to more overall damage than I would get from 2/2 in Dreadnaught for slightly better Smashes. I realize that there is no "perfect" build and I'm sure you guys can find flaws in mine. Just wanted to share mine and my thoughts. Feel free to comment.

I agree with this guy. I don't mind Marauder's insane consistent damage but they shouldn't also have the best defensive CDs in the game. Give them one or the other but not both. I play a Rage Jugg and I admit I have insane burst damage with Smashes but my defensive CDs are arguably the worse in the game. - Endure Pain is a glorified Medpac that allows us to soak one or two more hits - Saber Ward is good but it is also on a 3m cooldown (roughly 3 to 6 uses per WZ depending on which one it is) and doesn't provide as much mitigation as you think when focused by multiple players These two combined allow me to live for maybe an extra 4 to 6 seconds while all the Marauder/Sentinel defensive CDs allow them to live for up to an extra 15+ seconds when they are used correctly. Marauders/Sentinels are sometimes below 20% HP for me more than they are above it due to good players utilizing their defensive CDs correctly. Of course, if you can catch a Marauder/Sentinel without their CDs, they are very easy to kill. However, this is rarely the case since the majority of them are on short CDs (other than Saber Ward).

After playing in the Tera Online CBT this past weekend, I'm definitely cancelling my SWTOR sub which will run out in March. Tera's combat makes PvP far more fun than TOR, especially considering how little CCs there are and how it is skilled based due to having to manually aim everything. Every duel I did in Tera lasted quite awhile since there is very little burst damage (at least at the in the low 20s). Fighting BAMs (Huge "elite" monsters that are soloable if you are good at dodging their attacks. It'll just take awhile) was also very fun and interesting. I can see how it can be fun to try and solo some of them.

I play a Rage Jugg and this happens to me all the time as well. It's extremely frustrating when it happens because its already difficult enough to land Sweeps/Smashes with how buggy/easy to avoid they are. I noticed this problem is even worse for my Sniper alt. I'll Leg Shot an enemy who is running to LoS me and on my screen, he is still a good 5-10m away from LoSing me but when I spam Snipe/Ambush, my game keeps saying "You cannot see the enemy!" and sure enough, the game suddenly "updates" and the enemy is indeed behind the pillar LoSing me.