stem Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) This is your classic themepark MMO. The rides are all there. All you have to do is wait in line, take a seat, and wave your hands around. Sandbox MMOs (UO, SWG, ect.) offer players tools and an open world to use them as they see fit. Most MMO players now a day are 'WoWers'. They don't want or know how to create their own entertainment in game. They want a clear path laid out before them from ‘A’ to ‘B’ with a shiny at the end. Sandbox games let you create your own path based on your own desired outcome. That said, I enjoy the mindless direction of a themepark game. It’s like playing out a book were a Sandbox game is more like writing one. Edited January 30, 2012 by stem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbrex Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 In the days of mainstream gaming, development has to be paid for. And the people with money care about what people will pay for...and that is where we get our conclusion. Games like these are not developed to be good games, they are developed to be games that SELL well. Unless you are trying to create a new IP (Franchise/Series, like Elder Scrolls, or Call of Duty) In which you really have to hammer in an innovative idea, like Assassins Creed, one of the more recent IP's to gain mainstream/AAA status. Once you hit that point that people will buy your game, you don't have to put as much creative effort into the game. Comes down to number crunching and profit. Quite simply, your "MMO World" and your fans (Our fans really, I agree with you) do not consist of enough of the market share to get the product you want. Unless there is a developer or manager in Bioware or a similar company that holds enough authority to make those decisions and agrees with you, you will not see it until the majority of players want a world, instead of the linear model we are seeing today. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magron Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I was one of the first, if not, possibly, the very first 100 skill smith in UO. Ah.. the good old days, hammering at the town forge.. chatting.. even helping newbs because we hadn't all learned to hate each other at that time. Why didn't they ever finish AO? what was up with that? Lots of potential there and they just seemed to walk away from it. Other posters have the truth of it. 'Investors' these days are completely risk adverse. Everybody wants their fortune for sure so it's 'lowest common denominator' Ho! Marketing people design the games these days. Edited January 30, 2012 by Magron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbrex Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Other posters have the truth of it. 'Investors' these days are completely risk adverse. Everybody wants their fortune for sure so it's 'lowest common denominator' Ho! Marketing people design the games these days. That's a very good summary of what I said. The investors don't want to take risks, so they design games that go to the market share of consumers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamus_Divinus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I'm having a blast playing TOR. On my 3rd toon now. However the most fun I had was making my own Acklay mutant combat pet in SWG. Was the 2nd person to get one on my server (and only 30 were made before the game ended). Took me 5 months even knowing the combo to the enzymes/DNA to use. The whole SWG mutant minigame was addictive. Just one aspect of SWG that is missing from TOR. The ability to have various 'downtime' projects. By that I mean some projects you do part-time inbetween group quests/pvp etc. Mine on SWG were usually space farming, resource collecting and combat mutant pet making (175 different pets for deco/combat) and decorating my many houses. These were great 'distractions' and kept me playing 10 accounts for 7 years. Hopefully they'll add similar systems to TOR one day. If anyone is interested in how the SWG pet game worked the main website for it is still up. http://www.swgpets.com ...and these were my combat pets.../cry http://www.swgpets.com/profile/Jamus+Divinus Edited January 30, 2012 by Jamus_Divinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Perhaps some of you should take a look at the Star Wars galactic map. There are plenty of other planets to be added to the game. Who's to say there won't be some completely open worlds added in? Or that they can't expand the ones we already have in-game? Luckily the designers and developers aren't as short-sighted as some of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areto Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I hear Second Life is still going strong. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixit Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) If only TOR could handle 100 v 100 battles like other games, but sadly it cannot so you will never see it ever get anywhere. EQ1, SWG, Rift, WoW, DaoC, Aion, etc etc could/can... But not TOR. I will be blunt and say this game is the best single player MMO ever created. One day they will have a true sandbox, I hope. Sick of themepark MMOs, problem is the masses just don't have the imagination for that type of MMO systems. But w/e, if it's niche it's niche and I would play it still. No this isn't SWG2, that is clear. I would love to play SWG2, dang it! Now I just stand on the fleet (which I now call Ogrimmar v3.0) and twiddle my thumbs. Great game play! Edited January 30, 2012 by fixit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I'm having a blast playing TOR. On my 3rd toon now. However the most fun I had was making my own Acklay mutant combat pet in SWG. Was the 2nd person to get one on my server (and only 30 were made before the game ended). Took me 5 months even knowing the combo to the enzymes/DNA to use. The whole SWG mutant minigame was addictive. Just one aspect of SWG that is missing from TOR. The ability to have various 'downtime' projects. By that I mean some projects you do part-time inbetween group quests/pvp etc. Mine on SWG were usually space farming, resource collecting and combat mutant pet making (175 different pets for deco/combat) and decorating my many houses. These were great 'distractions' and kept me playing 10 accounts for 7 years. Hopefully they'll add similar systems to TOR one day. If anyone is interested in how the SWG pet game worked the main website for it is still up. http://www.swgpets.com ...and these were my combat pets.../cry http://www.swgpets.com/profile/Jamus+Divinus Another Bria player Probable not as well know as you but was bria also. The sidegames are what makes the game fun. Spent plenty of time decorating. ACtually won the showcase for my hotel. Edited January 30, 2012 by Emeda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 SWG was a sandbox game, SWTOR is a themepark game. Two different types of games. Neither is better than the other. Nope. One is much better than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmaguz Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 One of the great things in EQ was; You could login saturday morning, join a group and be with the same group for the rest of the day. You could go have your lunch, dinner, run to the shops, and the group mates would hold your spot. When you finished one camp, you'd move to the next. You knew each others abilities and failures and helped each other through the day. There were no real rules. They weren't needed. You just got on with the job (grinding mobs) for hours and then at the end of the day, congratulate yourself on .5 of a level /shout Need SoW for corpe run ! /shout KEI, bank, 5 mins How is the bold part fun in any way whatsoever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How is the bold part fun in any way whatsoever? Maybe it seems strange but playing with people and making friends is a fun part of a MMO no matter what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmybob Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Maybe it seems strange but playing with people and making friends is a fun part of a MMO no matter what you are doing. Not to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devon_mckay Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I've been playing since beta and i can honestly say that i have yet to feel like i was actually standing in an area with people. If you've played any EQ game you know what i mean. Sure, there are people standing by the daily pvp box, and some dude running to his trainer, but it just feels like you're standing in a crowd alone...if that makes sense. There is nobody trying to sell their crafting service, very little talking, just feels like everyone is playing the same game solo. I can remember standing in Freeport in EQ when i first started and not having a clue how to get somewhere. i had to ask and someone who had been grinding all day and about to go to bed actually ran me all the way there. Also countless times of people giving SoW and ports for a donation if you could spare it. Also guilds ment something. i've yet to find a decent one out of the 8 i've been in. nobody wants to help with a quest or do a flashpoint, everyone is just scooting along doing their own thing. The last thing i'm going to say is the world. It isnt massive if i can click and instantly be within a 5 minute run of anywhere in the game. i remember having to run to Freeport (EQ again) from my starting city which took like 40 minutes. it made the world seem real which was the most important part to me. running through the woods and stumbling on a werewolf hunter for the first time was awesome "werewolf hunter? omg is there a werewolf around...holy **** its a werewolf!" or stumbling on a giant cave with monsters all around it. it just has more impact in a massive breathing world then...whatever TORs planets are. All that said its still a good game and alot of room to fix some mistakes...and i hope it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Makes you wonder though. All those people who can remember all the good things. All that was better, so long ago. Yet everyone just keeps ignoring the progress that was made. Why forget all the horrible, horrible things players had to endure in old school mmos? Because of nostalgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slteath Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I read all the posts, and I was an EVE player. What I see is this, in WoW or TOR, when you hit lvl 50, you just seems to be grinding out for your gear to try harder raids/FP. And you do that everytime you log in, the path is there, just walk that path, slow or fast, you will get there. EVE, there is no path, you decide on the path, and even if you walk, you are not guarantee to get there because there are people in the game that can push you back. The best gear/mod in EVE does not gurantee your sucess, nowhere near, it is really base on the teamwork of players / leadership, planning, and a lot of other factors. In WoW, you are playing against the content, try to kill that dungeon/boss In EVE, you are playing against other players, to expand the territory you control, to hold valuable resources to the whole community. And since that it is against players, it is dynamic. things always changes. Imagine that WoW is like studying for an exam, and you study specifically for that exam, while EVE is more like, Here are some stuff you should read on, now go make something out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slteath Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Too lazy to find the post and quote, but someone reference the crafting professions, or profession in that matter. TOR, 8 classes, you are one of the 8. Sandbox game, if you can think of one, go try. I read some news on EVE website, someone is selling other guild's information, they sit in a cloak ship and literally record every activities that the guild has. oh, and crafting in SWG, I still remember paying some low levels to grind some quality 950+ avian meat, so I can give some to my friend and sell some on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakamp Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I remember the first time.. Ultima Online 2nd Age. It was awesome! my 1st is UO2A too, but i dont miss it, neither do EQ1, EQ2, WoW SWTOR is good in single player story line, but bad in bugs, performance, pvp, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevev Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 ITT.... jilted ex-SWG players that haven't accepted reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdarius Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 My MMO experience goes back to Everquest 1 beta. Grind, power-leveling and being gear orient have always been a part of it. They just come in different flavors. Who remembers Rubicite armor from EQ? Cazic Thule, baby! I'll take EQ's more open world where you could just enjoy a dungeon with friends for 5-6 hours over this single-player MMO-faux game. At least in EQ1 you knew more than a couple other people on the server. That was back when community mattered (and kept you engaged). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdarius Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 How is the bold part fun in any way whatsoever? Why is gaining 5 levels in a day any more fun than .5 levels in a day if you're enjoying the experience? I had way more fun camping spots in EQ1, rife with danger and the risk of death, than I do grinding 38 simple quests that involve me mostly just running from one spot to the next on a map that lights up to show me where to go. Then again, I guess I just don't like games that my 4 year old nephew can play as well as anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) No power levelling, no grind, no gear tier, no concept of a content end or reaching reward limits. It was about living and existing in a world with others... I don't know when this was, but I've been playing MMOs for about as long as they've been around, and this fantasy past you have in your head never existed. Edited January 31, 2012 by Pink_Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleriastar Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I havent really played much of the old MMO'S, alltho all I hear from people is they were great and other people saying they was crap for "X" reasons to be honest it comes down to personal taste and personal experience and thats oki but all games now compared to some old mmo's and games have a diffrent taste in peoples mouth, because younger gamers like all this flashey bang bang special effects amazing stuff and some old gamers like the old amazing simple open world experience a secoendish life with friends etc. Not saying all young gamers and old gamers are like this but its a brief picture, the one thing I can say is if you combinded some of the new MMO genre and old MMO genre such as open world houseing etc, and some new stuff such as arena pvp etc would be amazing heart and spirit with mind and strength. But for some games these days it feels too on rails or too hit "x" target and have "x" good armor, alot of and yes I will mention this WoW players have said its all about dps and recounts and stuff and that I rember the days it was simple no grinding. No matter what there has allways been grinding and nearly every game will have some form of it, its how you add that grinding such as if you grind "x" mobs you will get this neat mount and grind "x" more mobs you can unlock this nice 20 pack colour scheme for it. Being that it feels more of a feat and reward for doing this. I enjoy all games cause they are games and meant to be fun, I may feel burned out or like sigh I wish they would add this or take this away or be like this that and other but... Ill allways find a way to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valadain Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't know when this was, but I've been playing MMOs for about as long as they've been around, and this fantasy past you have in your head never existed. I've played MMOs since before there were graphics. And by graphics I mean colored text. I agree with your response. They were always a game, with leveling and grind and loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I've played MMOs since before there were graphics. And by graphics I mean colored text. I agree with your response. They were always a game, with leveling and grind and loot. Heh... same here, actually, but I didn't figure I'd start waving the "I'm old enough to be your grandfather" flag. But you're right, even the precursors to today's MMOs were the same way. The grind isn't anything new -- it's really what makes the genre work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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