pinkfreudHC Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Rift has a good system for this: If you are facing the enemy at the start of the cast, they are hit at the end of the cast even if they run through you, but you do not autoface, so you need to manually track them to start your next cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belecfaron Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 That's not even remotely what I said. Did I say it was "crucial" for melee? No, I said it's something a good melee can do to gain the upper hand on slower players. And yes, a decent player can negate it. Imagine that, two good players using their skills against one another and coming up with an even fight. Personally I'd love it if collision detection were implemented as then I could block-dance in front of the ball carrier slowing them by another 20-30%. The fact of the matter is that SWTOR's engine already has huge latency issues. Guildwars I used to run at 6-11ms, whereas for SWTOR it's 30-40ms. It affects everything, interrupts, stuns and perceptions of where players are at crucial times. Until the client performance gets fixed, auto-facing needs to stay in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilim Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Reads please let me have easy kills by running in circles aren't I skilled with my controller.... NOT... As opposed to let me have easy kills point my character the right way for me no matter what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Populism Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 have not seen a fake cast yet in a warzone.... We need a real lockout on interrupts. This. Forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 cuz it wasnt an issue for me, i dont suck....... it shouldnt be an issue, it shouldnt exist....u either turn the toon so the cast lands or you dont and the player juked you.... how people would ever approve of autofacing is ridiculous.....it takes away manual dodging by melee players in melee range where they should have an advantage if they can juke people the player isn't juking you, the player is hoping to exploit the latency between the client and server to get a free interrupt. it was always a cheap tactic and I'm glad it doesn't work in swtor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterRilo Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I play a sentinel and a mercenary and pvp a lot. While the gameplay is totally difference I find that I perform just as well with either on both pvp and pve, I have not seen this melee disadvantage some people are referring to. I have a watchman sentinel and I find that I have a lot of tools to close the gap quickly and stay on top of ranged, not to mention with the exception of cover, my melee attacks do slow down their casting. With the long casts in SWTOR it wouldn't "even the field" it would tilt the field towards melee. SWTOR pvp already has a lot of depth between the cc mechanics, the wide range of skills and the complex energy management system with the decreasing regen if you use it up too fast. It doesn't need that silly running around gimmick. I had no problem doing that dance with my ele shaman on WOW, but it wasn't fun for me, I'm pretty sure it wasn't fun for the guy doing it and it looks really stupid having this guy running through you back and forth. People only did it because it was the most effective way to pvp as melee. I'm glad to see it gone here and I really hope it doesn't get implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenthletter Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Reads please let me have easy kills by running in circles aren't I skilled with my controller.... NOT... If a melee moving makes you an easy kill then you're just the type of player autofacing was made for. I hear the PVP in Toontown Online is pretty killer. You might want to check it out. http://toontown.go.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Quick reminder, this isn't wow. running through someone isn't an instant negation of their attack. Nor is it "skill" its just stupid mechanics being abused by bads. Edited January 30, 2012 by Kelticfury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) the player isn't juking you, the player is hoping to exploit the latency between the client and server to get a free interrupt. it was always a cheap tactic and I'm glad it doesn't work in swtor... no it was a juke....on my melee toons i juke people, on my caster toons i make sure i dont get juked......see what i did there, i played the game.....it didnt play for me Edited January 30, 2012 by Vegathegreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Jumping through someone like a rabbit with ADD is not skill. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) So basically what it seems like most of the people in this thread want is a game where we all just stand there in PvP and spam our PvE rotations because movement becomes increasingly meaningless, interrupts might as well not even exist for the most part, and all people do with CC is whine about how it shouldn't exist. Sometimes I'm embarassed to play MMO's. Should just stick to FPS games for my competitive fulfillment. No use real movement not stupid run in circles use los and physical obstacles not circle jerking for the win. Skill interrupting real kiting not running in circles. Edited January 30, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McVade Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Credentials (before I get trolled too hard). Played mele through 2 Wow expansions successfully (Dk and rogue didn't do much arena made videos). If you watch you can see I have a upper echelon grasp of the mechanics of a mele class http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=184375 Cut my teeth on warlock through 3 expansions with an average of 2.4k rating rival titles in wizcleave and non wizcleave seasons. http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=163905 I don't take myself seriously and know what its like to be OP (I always admit OPness in my own class) http://www.warcraftmovies.com/pv.php?lid=714289&movie_id=157327 Back to the issue at hand: Autoface has been standard on channeled spells since as long as I remember (7 years or so), but autoface on casted spells/abilities I have never even seen before. Having autoface for casted spells (plus the fact that you cannot lock out spell trees, just individual spells) is a very bad combination. This takes away one of namesakes of a mele class in an mmo: you don't want to engage them in mele range as a caster, kiting and opening distance is what skill as a caster is all about. My favorite example is if you white-bar my gunslinger: GG bro I'll shoot you even if your in my hitbox and I have higher dps, more defense as I spin rapidly firing off casted nukes. This will increase the game's skillcap with minimal repercussions (people will adapt) and give mele less excuse to QQ. (I play: Sage, Scoundrel, Gunslinger) I do have to agree with this. Great post OP. Range in this game is EZ Mode enough. They get to exploit terrain, have constant action in Ilum (and tag almost every other player for guaranteed credit on kills) and can factor in Positioning into their strategy much more effectively than melee, who more or less are restricted to where an enemy chooses to be. They don't also need this. Edited January 30, 2012 by McVade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 no it was a juke....on my melee toons i juke people, on my caster toons i make sure i dont get juked......see what i did there, i played the game.....it didnt play for me if you were skilled you wouldn't depend on exploiting latency to beat your opponent. l2p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slie Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Reads please let me have easy kills by running in circles aren't I skilled with my controller.... NOT... Truth. /end thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ranged isn't OP because of autoface, although it does take a basic disparity and make it even worse. Ranged will always have fundamental advantages over melee in PVP as long as they continue to balance to a PVE environment where ranged and melee are set to do the same damage. Range is a much bigger advantage in PVP than PVE. As long as that's true and as long as PVE is where dps is balanced melee are always going to suck in PVP unless they're balanced around being able to have close to 100% uptime. Woww achieved this by giving melee classes lots of snares + roots + charges. SWTOR does this, but it also gives ranged tons of snares + roots + stuns + knockbacks, thus defeating the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 if you were skilled you wouldn't depend on exploiting latency to beat your opponent. l2p dude think outside of the box, no one cares about a 1v1 situation, im gonna win that with the tools presented.....but it takes away an element to pvp, u cant force people to have to actually aim at you since it does it for them.....you cant juke a caster while you kill his healer with your interupts, you are limited, its dumb down so someone can spam a button with one hand and doesnt have to aim with the other..... if you dont see this you in a bubble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 No use real movement not stupid run in circles use los and physical obstacles not circle jerking for the win. Skill interrupting real kiting not running in circles. Yeah, and people whine and cry about "pillar humping" and such too. Everyone just wants their easy mode gameplay for everything and no one else should be able to play any better because that'd be "lame". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Wasn't until I rolled a Scoundrel that I realized how easy Range classes have it in this game's WZs. Just off the top of my head, the major advantages my Scoundrel has over my Shadow: 1. Opposing Snares are inconsequential. My Scoundrel can DPS any target whenever he wishes. No snare can slow down his DPS output. 2. Presently, WZs are so wide open my Scoundrel can just setup shop wherever he likes and have an unabated angle to unload DPS. 3. Animations are lightning fast. The longest animation I currently have to wait for is Back Blast and that is a positional skill. Everything else is faceroll instant easy, including my Scoundrel's internal damage DoT. 4. My Scoundrel's CC is as good as my Shadow's CC in melee range (I'm guessing this actually improves for my Scoundrel down the road). So there is no defensive disadvantage to being a Ranged class in the CC department. Keep in mind that I'm not trying to get anyone nerfed or anything. These are just observations I've made playing the two different classes so far. However, it's obvious to me now that PvP combat in this game is really made for Ranged classes. It's just so easy. My Shadow didn't hit the 200K+ DPS mark in a WZ until he was in the 40s. My Scoundrel accomplished this feat at level 13. Rather than seeing classes get nerfed, I'd like to see melee classes get some buffs. Right now, there is a significantly greater challenge playing a PvP melee class in this game. Range classes have every edge as far as I can tell, aside from some marginal mitigation advantages for melee tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qoaa Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I wish swtor was more like DAOC when it came to binding faces we really need /face /stick commands we can bind to keyboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Wasn't until I rolled a Scoundrel that I realized how easy Range classes have it in this game's WZs. Just off the top of my head, the major advantages my Scoundrel has over my Shadow: Words Words bullet points words words NERF SCOUNDREL! Oh wait.... HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slie Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 dude think outside of the box, no one cares about a 1v1 situation, im gonna win that with the tools presented.....but it takes away an element to pvp, u cant force people to have to actually aim at you since it does it for them.....you cant juke a caster while you kill his healer with your interupts, you are limited, its dumb down so someone can spam a button with one hand and doesnt have to aim with the other..... if you dont see this you in a bubble bad players play bad. L2P. Your exploit from wow doesn't work here. Get over it. It is an exploit, not a skill. You don't want skill, you want easy wins, from an exploit. In your feeble mind everyone has to play like you want them too. LOL this is a different game don't try to turn it into the broken game you left to come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsu Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) What I think is funny is how you get these genius players who don't seem to get it and strafe side to side like they are having a seizure. I bet when they suddenly find themselves in the respawn they are like wth!?!?!? I was juking and jiving like a CHAMP! Dammit you made me lol at work. You have to understand these wow pvprs have been brain washed into mouse turning, no one could possibly win if they cant mouse turn. Edited January 30, 2012 by sunsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Also, we need autoface because otherwise spamming tracer missile and lightning isn't a win strategy. And we couldn't have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealthsultan Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Here is a challenge: If you support autoface post a video of your pvp skills with a ranged class. If you would like to see mine: watch the second video I linked on my OP (first post, first page) From my experience in terms of searching for players to form a solid pvp guild; all the good ranged I know are for the removal of autoface from casted skills. It stays for channeled spells because channeled skills are a different mechanic than casted skills (lower dps, higher time-on-target demand). They reason they want it removed: it creates better mechanics in pvp and give the player more to do (and showcases skill on both sides). I have a serious problem with people calling mele classes who run through you bad: if they interrupt your cast are they bad? What if they are trying to backstab you? Whats "good" about you pirouetting in place npc like while casting? A player pissing you off does not make them bad, and in a lot of cases means they are doing it right. "You have to understand these wow pvprs have been brain washed into mouse turning, no one could possibly win if they cant mouse turn." Do you play a shooter with only the keyboard to aim? Mouse turning is the use of the mouse and keyboard to turn and allows a much higher range of motion than keyboard alone. I never give people crap about it: but I do encourage them to learn it. Edited January 30, 2012 by Stealthsultan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 bad players play bad. L2P. Your exploit from wow doesn't work here. Get over it. It is an exploit, not a skill. You don't want skill, you want easy wins, from an exploit. In your feeble mind everyone has to play like you want them too. LOL this is a different game don't try to turn it into the broken game you left to come here. is this guy foreal?... its not skill to kill someone while juking 1-2 other people? to actually have the composureto execute a kill on one target while still forcing others to make mistakes on there cast? i mean you think its more skill to press 1 and then watch if you get interupted or not in which case you just press 2 after and watch you toon turn and follow? i mean be realistic.....stop trying to defend autofacing, its terrible, latency does need to be worked on but autofacing should never exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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