Why do many MMO players not appreciate the story?

[Fiachsidhe]

When I want story I read a book, or even watch a movie. Video games absolutely fail to deliver the same experience... Not sure when or why story came into gaming.. to each his own I guess.

 

Because, OP, I'm playing a game. Not reading a book. Not watching a movie or show. A game.

 

I don't even remotely care about game story.

 

 

So you're THOSE types. The snobs who draw an arbitrary line where certain types of entertainment dare not cross. I'm sorry I really hate comments like yours. They're so myopic and ignorant.

 

For every person who denies the appeal of interactive storytelling in video games-

(and believe me, I'll put Silent Hill 2 and Fatal Frame up against any horror movie in terms of fright any day of the week)

-there's a guy right behind you, saying they should be limited to just books, and some guy saying not even books, spoken word, like our ancestors.

 

If you don't want story in a game, why are you even playing an rpg at all?

 

Songs, books, comics, film, dance, puppetry, paintings, drawings. All of these things tell stories, many of which were around before films and books.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Fiachsidhe

[Fiachsidhe]

the story ends at lvl 50 bro. Endgame pvp is where its at. but there seems to be none.

 

....Then..it really ISN'T "where it's at"...is it?

[ShaftyMcShaft]

I guess to many people are just used to playing easy mode click and shoot mmo's with no depth aka wow,, instant gratification generation have no time to enjoy a good story does not move fast enough for them.

 

Wut. This is the fastest leveling MMO ever. "Click and shoot?" That's all you do, and all you can do in this game, and you can pretty much kill everything at a sprint.

 

Another poster pointed out how static the world is, that you can't interact with anything. Can't play the gambling games, can't build a building, can't plant a flower, can't even sit in a chair. While yes, the world is the most static, easy mode MMO world ever...but NPCs are even more so.

 

"Easy mode point and click?" You can do that with every group of mobs in the game. Send in tanking pet. AoE. Done. No thought. In WoW (vanilla at least, they easyfied leveling with Cata) you might occasionally actually die while leveling because the mobs weren't complete simpletons. Like, dudes would run away when their health got low and maybe aggro another group of enemies who'd come kill you. In SWTOR, every single mob fights to the death. These pirates and smugglers and slaves are REALLY DEDICATED to their jobs, just sayin. In WoW at least sometimes you had to worry about positioning because the mob might fear you into another group or something. In SWTOR...yeah nothing's ever ran from me, mind controlled me, sent me screaming in fear, turned me into a frog, anything. And because of that, just about nothing ever killed me in this game. I died maybe 5 times on the way to 50, and it was never because the fight was difficult, but because I fell asleep with autorun on or something.

 

So, yeah, easy mode point and click? This is the easiest MMO in history because the monsters DON'T DO ANYTHING.

 

And on topic, the story is...all right, but nothing groundbreaking. I cared way, way more about the characters in Final Fantasy III (VI) or Chrono Trigger. 16-bit graphics, text and heart, yo. I LOVE YOU CELES!!!

[Fiachsidhe]

Wut. This is the fastest leveling MMO ever. "Click and shoot?" That's all you do, and all you can do in this game, and you can pretty much kill everything at a sprint.

 

Another poster pointed out how static the world is, that you can't interact with anything. Can't play the gambling games, can't build a building, can't plant a flower, can't even sit in a chair. While yes, the world is the most static, easy mode MMO world ever...but NPCs are even more so.

 

"Easy mode point and click?" You can do that with every group of mobs in the game. Send in tanking pet. AoE. Done. No thought. In WoW (vanilla at least, they easyfied leveling with Cata) you might occasionally actually die while leveling because the mobs weren't complete simpletons. Like, dudes would run away when their health got low and maybe aggro another group of enemies who'd come kill you. In SWTOR, every single mob fights to the death. These pirates and smugglers and slaves are REALLY DEDICATED to their jobs, just sayin. In WoW at least sometimes you had to worry about positioning because the mob might fear you into another group or something. In SWTOR...yeah nothing's ever ran from me, mind controlled me, sent me screaming in fear, turned me into a frog, anything. And because of that, just about nothing ever killed me in this game. I died maybe 5 times on the way to 50, and it was never because the fight was difficult, but because I fell asleep with autorun on or something.

 

So, yeah, easy mode point and click? This is the easiest MMO in history because the monsters DON'T DO ANYTHING.

 

And on topic, the story is...all right, but nothing groundbreaking. I cared way, way more about the characters in Final Fantasy III (VI) or Chrono Trigger. 16-bit graphics, text and heart, yo. I LOVE YOU CELES!!!

 

Wow...just....wow.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

If you don't want story in a game, why are you even playing an rpg at all?

 

Alternatively, if you want story in a game, why are you playing this one? As far as RPGs go, it's way less epic and interesting than just about anything Square's done.

 

And as far as interesting characters, with depth or dimension, those don't exist in any Star Wars game, and that's actually not BioWare's fault, that's just George Lucas' bizarre Star Wars Light Side/Dark Side non-sensical "morality" where if you're "dark side" you're super evil, and if you're "light side" you're super boring.

 

And worse still is the whole "falling to the dark side" thing. So if you hate somebody for being evil you then want to join them in doing the same evil you hate them for? Luke hates the Emperor for being evil and plotting to kill his friends, but Luke tries to "strike him down with all his hatred" he's then going to...join the Emperor and kill his friends? I get the idea that if you lose control and go seeking revenge you can become just as bad as the person you hate. Like, if you really hate Hitler for killing Jews, and went mad seeking revenge and turned around and started sending Germans to the gas chambers, you'd be just as bad as Hitler. But if you hate Hitler for killing Jews you don't then...become his best buddy and help him kill more Jews. Doesn't make sense.

 

And redemption? So Vader murders BILLIONS of people. Blows up Alderan. But because just before he dies he saves his own son, he's now a light side ghost and best buddies with Yoda and Obi-Wan...and I guess the ghosts of all the other people he murdered?

 

Yeah, if what you care about is "the story" in a game, I don't know why you're playing this one.

Edited February 6, 2012 by ShaftyMcShaft

[ShaftyMcShaft]

Wow...just....wow.

 

Am I wrong? What MMO in the last 10 years has more simplistic AI than the NPCs in this game? They all just fight to the death, never run, never try to call in help, blah blah blah. Basically easiest RPG ever.

[Fiachsidhe]

Am I wrong? What MMO in the last 10 years has more simplistic AI than the NPCs in this game? They all just fight to the death, never run, never try to call in help, blah blah blah. Basically easiest RPG ever.

 

Yes you are. WoW was easier. I could hit 75 in WoTLK without dying once in less than a week. If you're fifty and haven't died, than you aren't touching the end game content, like HM's and OPS. Definitely not HM ops.

EDIT: Oh, and then Blizzard listened to people like you, and Cataclysm is going down in history as the worst expansion of all time.

 

I die all the time.

 

But that really wasn't why I was indirectly /facepalming myself into a coma, over your post.

 

It was really how obnoxious you are, with your ridiculous cocktail of "I'm awesome at games, this so EZMODE!!!11!"

and your

"Me LUV Final Fantasy Cloud+Tifa4evr!!11!1!" nonsense that only managed to shave off, what little chance you had, of anyone taking your opinions seriously.

 

So yeah...you're really wrong, and you're also off topic.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Fiachsidhe

[usblues]

I'm not reading ~80 pages, but to respond to the OP I have one word for you:

 

Spacebar.

Edited February 6, 2012 by usblues

[krameriffic]

Yes you are. WoW was easier. I could hit 75 in WoTLK without dying once in less than a week. If you're fifty and haven't died, than you aren't touching the end game content, like HM's and OPS. Definitely not HM ops.

EDIT: Oh, and then Blizzard listened to people like you, and Cataclysm is going down in history as the worst expansion of all time.

 

How does any of this demonstrate that WoW was easier? First, the max level in WotLK was 80, you would do well to check your facts before trying to make points. Second, it's very easy to hit 50 in SWTOR in a week (TONS of people did it in the early access alone). Third, it's perfectly easy to wipe in endgame WoW dungeons when you're just learning them as well, so your point about dying in ops and HMs is meangingless.

 

Both games are pretty much equally piss easy. This is the nature of the modern MMO and its desire to cater to as wide an audience as possible. This isn't Dark Souls, people aren't here for the challenge.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

Yes you are. WoW was easier. I could hit 75 in WoTLK without dying once in less than a week. If you're fifty and haven't died, than you aren't touching the end game content, like HM's and OPS. Definitely not HM ops.

EDIT: Oh, and then Blizzard listened to people like you, and Cataclysm is going down in history as the worst expansion of all time.

 

I die all the time.

 

But that really wasn't why I was indirectly /facepalming myself into a coma, over your post.

 

It was really how obnoxious you are, with your ridiculous cocktail of "I'm awesome at games, this so EZMODE!!!11!"

and your

"Me LUV Final Fantasy Cloud+Tifa4evr!!11!1!" nonsense that only managed to shave off, what little chance you had, of anyone taking your opinions seriously.

 

So yeah...you're really wrong, and you're also off topic.

 

I've done HMs and Ops and pvp at 50 and died plenty. I meant the solo leveling 1-50...the mobs don't do anything. There are no mechanics. No WoW leveling wasn't hard, either, but compared to the swtor snooze-fest WoW was Legendary Mode.

[usblues]

I've done HMs and Ops and pvp at 50 and died plenty. I meant the solo leveling 1-50...the mobs don't do anything. There are no mechanics. No WoW leveling wasn't hard, either, but compared to the swtor snooze-fest WoW was Legendary Mode.

 

Nothing is stopping you from playing WoW.

 

Or maybe there is something? The fact that it's a poor excuse for a game that's been repeatedly butchered like a scene from Hostel? And is now on the way to becoming a game that only appeals to children?

Edited February 6, 2012 by usblues

[krameriffic]

It's very proper for Star Wars. Most people's problems with this game come from the fact they didn't play kotor, didn't read totj and some haven't even watched Star Wars, being here for the hype is going to disappoint people.

 

How does playing KotOR help a person feel like they fit into this world? It's 300 years later, the only relevant characters still living are Revan and the Sith Emperor, and they only fit into the stories of this game tangentially. You CANNOT expect people to read expanded universe novels for the already expanded universe either. 99.9% of people who PLAYED KOTOR won't know what happened to Revan after KOTOR 1, what happened to The Exile after KOTOR 2, who Vitiate is, who Scourge is, or how any of these things link to the overarching story of this game.

 

The stories in this game are personal ones driven by your own character with no link whatsoever to the KOTOR games or novels other than that you are part of the Republic or the Empire. Even taken as that, they feel less like RPG stories and more like linear traditional video game stories. Your choices don't affect where you're going or how you get there in this game, and don't even try to counter this point because it's indisputable. Play something like Alpha Protocol or The Witcher 2 if you want your choices to truly affect the game and your character's interaction with NPCs.

 

The compromise between story-driven gameplay and the MMO structure makes this game a bloated, token and uninteresting experience to people who aren't stupid and understand what a good story really is. The story content is given to you in such a slow drip, padded out with so many hours of irritating, boring side content required to keep your character high enough level. Then when you finally get to the story stuff you realize that the actual gameplay behind the story quests is the same as any other quest (go here, kill X of these, interact with Y of those, kill big boss du jour). All of the story is delivered in cutscenes and you can't influence how things play out in any meaningful way.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

Nothing is stopping you from playing it.

 

I plan to. Just over a month in and I've already done just about everything there is to do in this game. It's sad because I was hoping BW was going to make a modern game that improved on WoW, and other MMOs, and instead took giant leaps backwards. Most static world ever (no mountains to climb, no lakes to dive into, hell, no chairs to sit on), zero player generated content, an even more simplistic class mechanics, non-existent NPC AI, "Nightmare mode" Ops easier than normal-mode WoW raids, and a "story" that's just a series of breadcrumb quests on rails. Lightsabers are cool, but that's all this game has, and that's not worth $15/month. It's a shame.

[lokivoid]

A large percentage here on the forums hate on the game and state that they don't give a crasp about the great story Bioware has put into the game. These are probably the same type of people who would play Modern Warfare, but feel they're a more sophisticated gamer, so they play MMO's....then constantly complain about them.

 

IMO, story is what sets this game apart. Ive only played bounty hunter so far and love the story and look forward to playing every class.

 

Story has no meaningful impact on end game, all you need is a backstory a most. All it serves is another aspect to raise production cost of future content.

 

Besides the story is far from good, its filled with retcon's and plot holes and poorly thought out plot devices. (Bioware has not produced a game with decent story sense BG2 and even it had some terrible plot near the end)

[Necrolepsy]

Because a lot of mmo players got used to wows horrible standard of DO THIS, K COME BACK DO THIS, K HERES LOOTS AND A LEVEL, RINSE AND REPEAT.

 

It promoted ADHD mindsets and took the RPG out of MMORPG. WoW raised the bar in some ways but in other ways it lowered the bar so low it's now a part of MMO's plumbing system.

[Limedust]

Because a lot of mmo players got used to wows horrible standard of DO THIS, K COME BACK DO THIS, K HERES LOOTS AND A LEVEL, RINSE AND REPEAT.

 

It promoted ADHD mindsets and took the RPG out of MMORPG. WoW raised the bar in some ways but in other ways it lowered the bar so low it's now a part of MMO's plumbing system.

 

I suppose the R is this game . . . it just isn't an R that you come up with for yourself. The stories are awfully linear and in my opinion very poorly written; wish I could play a different role than one proscribed by talentless hack. Maybe others feel the same way.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Limedust

[chakkar]

lol, talk to the hand? good effort.

 

Its simple the acting for the class quest and each world quest was well worth the time they spent. however spending all those resources on some instantly forgettable quest to save some persons X was a waste as they could have been dispensed by the vending machines.

 

as for quitting well not yet, I'll give them the benefit if the doubt for another month while I level a Rep alt and see if they have got their act together and focused on the game instead of the fluff.

 

So....you believe that a game that took 5 years to develop can be changed into something you would approve of in a month???

 

so you're not going to leave...but just stay here and spread negativity on the forums?

[Fafryd]

Even if the story is good, after spending 2 weeks in the game, the story is finished.

 

You don't do the 'story' every day. In fact, you hardly spend any time on the 'story'. Bioware totally missed the point in MMOs.

[xNonphixionx]

It's more of a single-player game with elements allowing players to connect with each other.

 

Weird, all i did all weekend was raid, dungeons and group pvp. Not sure where a single player game even factors in. I also leveled an alt with 3 other friends. We were by each others side the entire time even through each others story quests....

 

Can someone please remind me how SWTOR is more of a single player game?

 

In my opinion, SWTOR is what you make it. If you play it like a single player game then guess what? It's going to be a single player game. However if you play with friends and have a great guild, it's just as much a "massively multiplayer" game as any other mmo. To me, SWTOR is really revolutionary in that way. It truelly is what you make it.

 

I remember when I leveled up in World of Warcraft. The only places I'd ever see any other players was in the main city. Outside of there I saw nearly nobody. Is WOW a single player game too? Seems like it to me...But its a single player game with ZERO story elements lol.

[teambff]

The story in this game is not that great. The non class quests are very lacking (story wise) and the actual class quests are like minimalist short stories. No depth really. Seems rushed to me.

 

People seem to think there is some great story just because there are voiceovers.

 

there's usually 1 good planet storyline along with your class storyline.

that's way more than any other mmorpg has.

 

yes, the simple "collect this for me" quest is an annoying part of mmo's, but if everything was awesome then there wouldn't be awesome there just would be normal... that's what make those moments stand out and those memories great.

 

i can think of the thana vesh quest on taris which was really long and great, it had me intrigued every step of the way and the choices seemed to really vary in the result.

 

the three hutts on quesh was another good planet quest.

 

nar'shadah has a good planet quest storyline with the shadow syndicate.

 

and so on and so forth.

pretty much every planet i've been to has some good storylines there, amidst the lesser ones.

 

really, people are so spoiled and ungrateful it's ridiculous.. in a genre that has severely lacked story and meaning... basically a giant void, we finally get some story and meaning into the mmo genre and people aren't happy. people complain, blah blah blah.

 

fully voiced acted with a meaningful story is a huge advancement to the mmo genre.

 

if its not perfect, so what? before it what was there? people expect perfection the first time out? really?

 

if people really don't like the game so much or the story there are simple solutions, skip the story, play other games, etc, etc.

 

why must people continue to try and push their negativity and spoiled perspective down the rest of our throats, who are actually having fun and enjoying ourselves.. i've had so much fun from the moment i logged in for the first time and still going if i didn't i'd move on.

Edited February 6, 2012 by teambff

[Alianar]

Because it's only good for the RPG part of the MMORPG. I loved it honestly, but you have to admit that the story element of this game simply ends when you reach level 50. At this point ToR switches from RPG to MMo, meaning loots, running FP's/OPs, doing PvP. No story element there. They are those who are only interested in the MMo part and not the RpG part just like they are the ones that prefer the RpG to the mmo part (Basicly those who wanted to be Kotor 3 without the online part).

 

Agreed, they did a fantastic job by allowing groups to run story quests together and interact. But this is more of Online RPG than an MMO. You might make ME3 with a similar 4 players online Co-op option.

 

So buy Call of duty to play online without even clearing the campaign. That's just the way it is.

[Fiachsidhe]

How does any of this demonstrate that WoW was easier? First, the max level in WotLK was 80, you would do well to check your facts before trying to make points. Second, it's very easy to hit 50 in SWTOR in a week (TONS of people did it in the early access alone). Third, it's perfectly easy to wipe in endgame WoW dungeons when you're just learning them as well, so your point about dying in ops and HMs is meangingless.

 

Both games are pretty much equally piss easy. This is the nature of the modern MMO and its desire to cater to as wide an audience as possible. This isn't Dark Souls, people aren't here for the challenge.

 

Dude, I don't give a ****

It's been years since I logged onto WoW, so cut me some *********** slack on getting the exact max level right. Give me a break.

 

As for the rest, more off topic crap about how you think you're an awesome gamer cuz u liek teh hard gamez. We're ALL impressed champ, trust me.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Fiachsidhe

[Mamono]

Why should I appreciate the story at all? If I want a good story, Ill play a single player game with a proper story and a proper single player system. Not SWToR with a "single-player wannabe" system.

If I want a proper story, i read a book, If I want a proper story, i watch a film or some series.

I play MMO to play with my friends.

I give a flying F.... about story and voice acting.

Voice acting was cool the 1st 20 LvLs, then it just got annoying.

 

Now take away the story and voice acting from SWToR, what do you have left? It is not much to brag about.

 

LvLing up a new character in this game is a pain and a hassle. Unless you play up on the other faction, you play the same quest over and over again. There is no variation.

The so called fantastic class quest line is just a few quests you are doing while you are LvLing. 95% of the quest you are doing is all the same damne quests as you did on the other character.

 

But I guess it is for the better that you don’t get any more choises to where you can go. The servers are a wasteland already as it is. If you now should split up the players into two new “LvLing” choises, even fewer people would be grouping up and you will se even few people around you.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Mamono

[Fiachsidhe]

I plan to. Just over a month in and I've already done just about everything there is to do in this game. It's sad because I was hoping BW was going to make a modern game that improved on WoW, and other MMOs, and instead took giant leaps backwards. Most static world ever (no mountains to climb, no lakes to dive into, hell, no chairs to sit on), zero player generated content, an even more simplistic class mechanics, non-existent NPC AI, "Nightmare mode" Ops easier than normal-mode WoW raids, and a "story" that's just a series of breadcrumb quests on rails. Lightsabers are cool, but that's all this game has, and that's not worth $15/month. It's a shame.

 

So you're going to leave one game that doesn't improve on WoW in your opinion, to a game that IS WoW the game you want improved on. Hey SWTOR don't let me swim or sit in a chair, time to go back to WoW. Player made content? Frankly I'd steer clear of any content made by you.

 

Nightmare modes easier than normal modes?, you're full of **** you need an enema to clear your head.

 

At this point it is obvious that you're merely "WoW Fanboy #56478573" whining about not having Bioware reinvent the wheel even Blizzard refused to reinvent. You have nothing left to say that won't be disingenuous at best.

[Merex]

I appreciate the story, trust me. But I've played enough MMOs in my life (started with UO) to know that MMORPGs need A LOT MORE than just a good story to survive. Sacrificing gameplay quality and features in favor of story IS NOT good for an MMORPG. Story lasts while you level, and eventually runs out. Good gameplay lasts forever and keeps players coming and subscribing.

 

I think if Bioware created their own engine, and did quality voice acting on CLASS QUESTS and left side quests without voice acting, and put the rest of that budget towards gameplay and other features the game would be a lot better off right now. But it isn't, and now Bioware has a lot of scrambling and catching up to do. Unfortunately when they do, players will already be looking towards the next big MMO.

 

If I wanted a good story and shallow game mechanics or features I wouldn't play an MMO.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Merex