Vader vs Revan

[Castiel]

Vader, no contest. When it comes to lightsaber combat, while Vader was less mobile he makes up with it in strength, and defense. His style was a modified version of Djem So, the way he designed was to completely balance defense and offense. His arms would swing much harder than a normal humans, one good two handed strike and revan would be underneath vader trying to hold off the onslaught. Lightsaber advantage is Vader.

 

Strategy, both were generals and most were pretty successful in their missions. This is where they tie.

 

Force: While Revan had a greater understanding, Vader had better command. You don't see Revan force choking people from across the ship, force edge would be vader.

 

Feats: Revan's main feat was destroying the star forge, while Vader's was hunting down the remaining jedi order, and leading the assault on the jedi temple. Vader destroyed the next generation of jedi, while revans feat was great, Vader's was more effective in ending the enemy.

 

Vader wins this match, sorry Revan Fanboys but he is not all you crack him up to be.

 

You do remember that Revan's will was the only thing that kept him from being crushed by the massive dark side energies of Malachor V, and that he basically not only turned thousands of Jedi knights to his own cause, but he killed even more of them during his rise to power ? I think he killed more Jedi than even Vader did, because at Vader's time, there weren't many left...

[Xiahoufig]

It's amusing that people are using Lucas quotes in their argument.. you realize Lucas doesn't recognize (or probable even know) half the EU... You may as well have Lucas tell you who would win between Vader and Superman.

 

Also, the question wasn't who was more powerful but who would win.. have you guys not noticed that every time there is an epic battle in Star Wars the more powerful guy loses?

 

Darth Maul gets the better of two jedi for most of a fight. Clearly more powerful.. loses.

 

Anakin supposedly most powerful force wielder ever... loses to Obi-Wan.

 

Emperor supposedly more powerful than burn-victim-vadar... loses

 

Thus we have to assume the weaker combatant would win this fight.

 

All three of those were done in by their arrogance. (and a little character shield) A common flaw amongst dark-siders/sith tends to be arrogance so if Vader doesn't keep his arrogance in check, he would very well lose this fight.

[-dtheartist-]

Revan would win this one since it was his holocron that Darth Bane used to start the Rule of two for the Sith that Vadar went by. Revan's understanding of both light and dark of the force is beyond Vadar.

[Tavenji]

Revan would win because he is Expanded Universe, where everything has to be bigger, badder, and eviler to make the story interesting. Just because.

[Saryk]

Helmet's swartz is bigger, so he wins!

[BoDiE]

Lucas said Sidious followed by Vader. Vader would have smacked the taste out of lolRevan's mouth. Besides the EU is crap anyway, even Lucas said it's crap.

[DuchessOfDork]

Lucas said Sidious followed by Vader. Vader would have smacked the taste out of lolRevan's mouth. Besides the EU is crap anyway, even Lucas said it's crap.

 

Lucas tried to name Yoda "Buffy".

 

I trust nothing that man says. I have it on good authority that his brain is being controlled by an alien parasite.

[BoDiE]

I stopped looking in to the EU when I read on wookipedia that palpatine comes back to life and turns Luke in to a Sith, I mean come on. Utter garbage.

[BrandonSM]

Lucas tried to name Yoda "Buffy".

 

I trust nothing that man says. I have it on good authority that his brain is being controlled by an alien parasite.

 

Because he originally intended for SW To be a kids funny story similar to the muppets and such. What GL says goes, the writers must follow it or their work isn't published or its announced non-canon.

[Wolfninjajedi]

You do remember that Revan's will was the only thing that kept him from being crushed by the massive dark side energies of Malachor V, and that he basically not only turned thousands of Jedi knights to his own cause, but he killed even more of them during his rise to power ? I think he killed more Jedi than even Vader did, because at Vader's time, there weren't many left...

 

Revan may have a strong will, but Vader's will is unbreakable.

[Rhyltran]

Oh my god, not this topic again...

 

I agree that Vader was stronger than post-mustafar Anakin, but you are missing the point. If Anakin would not end up so heavily wounded on Mustafar he would become even more powerful and would probably strike down Palpatine very early after RotS. If you think that after burning in lava you become more powerful then congratulations to you sir. I wonder why other sith lords did not took baths in molten lava in order to work out a bit. And upon what canon if I may ask you base your theory that Sidious was the most powerful Sith ever? He definitely achieved a lot with his political capabilities and manipulation skills. But he was nothing compared to ancient sith lords or his former master Darth Plagueis. He knew he did not stand chance with Plagueis in combat so he used his cunning to kill Plagueis in his sleep. I'am guessing you are claiming Sidious to be most powerful sith ever because of New Essential Chronology. Well, if you knew the full context of this book and it's claim about Sidious being the most powerful sith you would knew that it is refering to his accomplishments and not the actual power. It all comes down to your very own definition of power. Power can vary a lot you know...

 

Now back to Vader and Revan discussion, in the end it's impossible to be sure who would win. Canon will probably never directly give us an answer to this question. It all comes down to personal opinion. The only thing that we can be sure of is that Anakin definitely had the most potential because he was the chosen one. But you have to understasnd that he was very young in RoTS. On the other hand when he gained expierience and knowledge later on as Darth Vader, he was weaker and far less powerful then he would have been if he did not lose on mustafar. He was still very powerful, but it was nothing compared to what he could have been.

 

In the end, my best is for Revan - he was also very powerful and as Kreia put it: "looking at him was like stearing at the heart of the force". Revan had A LOT more experience and knowledge than Vader.

 

You also have to look at this from another angle - let's say that Vader could defeat Revan in duel. But what if they took command of two armies and fought against each other. Would the outcome be the same? Revan was expectional strategist and completely turned the tide of Mandalorian Wars. Mandalore was no match for him when it came to leadership.

 

You have to understand that this discussion will never be canon and in the end it all comes down to personal preferences and what fans themselfs imagine. Comparing Vader and Revan is fanfiction in itself.

 

Also on a side note, don't know if you know this but Darth Bane considered Revan the greatest Sith Lord of all time despite his redemption (read the Darth Bane trilogy for more information). Bane was the one who introduced the rule of two.

 

What Canon? The Dark Empire series. As for "Falling in lava makes you stronger" no it doesn't but Anakin did have years to learn after Episode 3. He did improve past his original point when he was young. owever, had he not been damaged, he'd be far more powerful than he was as Vader. If you think he didn't improve at all afterb eing badly damaged.. well.. you seem to not know much about the lore post movie era if you think Sidious only had manipulation.

[Bohmfalk]

All three of those were done in by their arrogance. (and a little character shield) A common flaw amongst dark-siders/sith tends to be arrogance so if Vader doesn't keep his arrogance in check, he would very well lose this fight.

 

I believe that one of the main things that Vader took away from his fight on Mustafar (obviously not talking about his limbs here...) was that he needed to keep his arrogance in check. Vader learned to control his overconfidence, unlike his master, Sidious.

[Bohmfalk]

Revan would win this one since it was his holocron that Darth Bane used to start the Rule of two for the Sith that Vadar went by. Revan's understanding of both light and dark of the force is beyond Vadar.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

Darth Bane's Rule of Two was based off of Revan's holocron, yes. Darth Bane was (arguably) about equal to Revan in strength/power. The RoT ensured that each successor to the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith (Master) was more powerful than the previous Master. Thus, after a thousand years, Sidious would have been MUCH more powerful than Bane/Revan. And with Vader being 80% Sidious's power (from GL), he is definitely more powerful than Revan.

[Bohmfalk]

It always did bother me that Palpatine killed Plagueis in his sleep as opposed to killing him in open combat, as the Rule of Two mandated. So, if that's the case, maybe that does call into question the true extent of Sidious's abilities. Still, being able to rip open wormholes in space large enough to swallow entire warships is pretty freakin' powerful.

 

Hopefully, more light will be shed upon this when the Darth Plagueis novel comes out in a couple months. Anywho, the RoT didn't actually mandate that the apprentice kill the master in open combat....it instead states that when the apprentice feels that they have acquired enough power, they are to confront their master, and kill them. This can be interpreted in a number of ways. I believe that Sidious is known to not sleep, at all. He may have known that the only way he could defeat his master is in his sleep. The Force alerts Jedi/Sith to imminent danger, if Plagueis was unable to sense Sidious's impending attack, he didn't deserve to live.

 

Another way to think about it; if each apprentice must challenge their master in open combat, it is extremely likely that the victor would come out of the battle hurt and possibly crippled. This would most likely weaken and possibly destroy the Sith, so it wouldn't exactly be the best way to go about killing your master. The best thing to do would be to find their one weakness and exploit it. If the Sith Lord was unable to defend themself from all attacks, then they wouldn't deserve the position/title.

[BrandonSM]

Hopefully, more light will be shed upon this when the Darth Plagueis novel comes out in a couple months. Anywho, the RoT didn't actually mandate that the apprentice kill the master in open combat....it instead states that when the apprentice feels that they have acquired enough power, they are to confront their master, and kill them. This can be interpreted in a number of ways. I believe that Sidious is known to not sleep, at all. He may have known that the only way he could defeat his master is in his sleep. The Force alerts Jedi/Sith to imminent danger, if Plagueis was unable to sense Sidious's impending attack, he didn't deserve to live.

 

Another way to think about it; if each apprentice must challenge their master in open combat, it is extremely likely that the victor would come out of the battle hurt and possibly crippled. This would most likely weaken and possibly destroy the Sith, so it wouldn't exactly be the best way to go about killing your master. The best thing to do would be to find their one weakness and exploit it. If the Sith Lord was unable to defend themself from all attacks, then they wouldn't deserve the position/title.

 

 

IMO, Plageuis has the most knowledge of Dark Side. Even Palpatine couldn't accomplish what Plageuis did. Living a whole lot longer than normal using the Dark Side. Palpatine fialed and used clones. And Plageuis is called The Wise. So, I think he would come 2nd most powerful, thats my prediction.

 

 

1. Sidious

2. Plageuis

3. Vitate

[verditius]

Revan for sure vader is a nub compared to revan!

[GhostRiderLSOV]

Since the search button doesn't work, is there a Revan vs Galen Marek? I think that would be a more interesting topic.

[thecordler]

Since the search button doesn't work, is there a Revan vs Galen Marek? I think that would be a more interesting topic.

 

no it wouldn't, galen marek's level of power is =/> Sidious.

 

His force powers have effects much like Vitatues the sith emperor who beat revan.

[Rhyltran]

no it wouldn't, galen marek's level of power is =/> Sidious.

 

His force powers have effects much like Vitatues the sith emperor who beat revan.

 

Galen Marek died against Sidious. Galen isn't equal to Sidious. He's equal to Vader. He beat Vader by a hair. In both fights he barely defeated Vader.

[Bohmfalk]

IMO, Plageuis has the most knowledge of Dark Side. Even Palpatine couldn't accomplish what Plageuis did. Living a whole lot longer than normal using the Dark Side. Palpatine fialed and used clones. And Plageuis is called The Wise. So, I think he would come 2nd most powerful, thats my prediction.

 

 

1. Sidious

2. Plageuis

3. Vitate

 

I think that your list is pretty good, though I think you misinterpret Sidious's power as weakness. Sidious was able to actually transfer his actual essence to another body, thereby actually achieving immortality, with new bodies that are in their prime. Thus, the damage done to his body by the use of the dark side is unimportant. (I just reread that, and realize I used the word actual way too much. However I'm too tired to try to make it sound better.) It wasn't until the clone factory containing his clones destroyed was he finallt truly defeated (I think...not 100% on this specific part).

[DarthEleVator]

I have to correct a mistake made here. It has been stated by Lucas himself, that Vader was 80% of the power of the Emperor in his post-Mustafar state, and that if the events had not happened he would have been easily twice as powerful. As far as a comparison between Revan and Vader, it is hard to say. While we fully know the extent of Revan's power, we don't know the potential Vader would have possessed. If we are talking make believe, then we have to use pre-Mustafar Vader in the equation. And that would be tough and need extensive debate.

[darktroysith]

Revan is so much better than Vader. Vader was turned by blind love and hate, while Revan willingly delved into every dark secret of the galaxy. Vader was beaten by a single Jedi. Revan slayed countless Jedi (arguably so did Vader, but not really alone) and raised the entire Sith Empire. He discovered and took over the Star Forge. Honestly, Vader was just a pawn in Sidious's plan, like Maul or Dooku. Revan, the Dark Lord of the Sith, all the way.

[darktroysith]

From a different point of view, Vader is passionate and the chosen one. You can't deny that he has power and strength when he isn't blindly raging into a fight. Revan can coolly and tactically take down any enemy, a feat Vader really doesn't possess.

[Rhyltran]

Revan is so much better than Vader. Vader was turned by blind love and hate, while Revan willingly delved into every dark secret of the galaxy. Vader was beaten by a single Jedi. Revan slayed countless Jedi (arguably so did Vader, but not really alone) and raised the entire Sith Empire. He discovered and took over the Star Forge. Honestly, Vader was just a pawn in Sidious's plan, like Maul or Dooku. Revan, the Dark Lord of the Sith, all the way.

 

No. Vader killed countless Jedi solo. Vader was also 80% as powerful as Sidious in his suit. He had the strongest resistance to force lightning than any other character shown. He took on 8 Jedi during an ambush with several masters among them and murdered nearly all of them before his stormtroopers killed the last one's left. He wasn't even aware his storm troopers were on their way. He killed three jedi solo with no issue in Dark Lord rise of lord vader and took out a master with absolutely no effort.

 

It described him, from a Jedi's point of view, like battling a machine that knew their every move and was programmed to destroy them. He felt untouchable in saber combat. Darth Vader was an excellent swordsman and his suit enhanced his physical strength making up for his loss in mobility. He designed his own style specifically to counter more agile and acrobatic opponents. His strength in the force was immense and he had the ability to force choke people from star ships away.

 

Galen Marek is well recognized as one of the most powerful force sensitives ever known and he's able to keep up with him. Galen Marek beat Vader by a hair by his own admittance and he's far more agile and acrobatic than Vader. He also has access to very powerful force lightning. In fact his lightning seems to be the strongest shown except when it comes to lord Sidious himself.

 

Vader would not be an easy fight by any means. His loss to obi-wan Kenobi on mustafar taught him to lose his arrogance. He had much more control afterwards. He didn't fly off the handle or react recklessly. In fact, he was known to let his opponents press the advantage, letting them "vent" as a Jedi put it, and wear them out before striking the killing blow.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Rhyltran

[Kopernicous]

I would go with Revan seeing he is in essence is the Sith founder as well as the first Jedi to go Dark and then back to the Light. Pretty powerful. Also don't know if it was mentioned but if you read the Bane books he is a pretty big bad *** as well and Vader would have his hands full. Just saying.