MorbidAri Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Need I point out that Luke Skywalker, who endured the Emperor's Force lightning attack for a longer period of time and (towards the end of the barrage) at the same intensity, survived? And that Vader, who was exposed to it for a far shorter time period, did not? I'm sorry, but in my book, it's Luke that shows the greater resiliency, not Vader. Vader died because the lightning wrecked his mechanical parts. He wasn't more or less resilient, he simply got shorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange-kun Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'd say it's not really viable to argue something like this. Force-users during the Old Republic era seem to be much more skillful in all ways. I don't know if that's because of how their stories were portrayed or if the Force actually declined, but there it is. Obviously it wouldn't have been possible to portray a lot of things done with the Force in the original trilogy, considering the technology that was available, but Vader exists in the movies, and so those are the only real showcase of his abilities. Even in the new trilogy, is Anakin really that impressive? It just sounds like Jedi used to be more outrageous in their use of the Force, back then, as I see it. Personally, I like how the Force is more subtle in the old movies. It makes it more unique than simply being akin to magic. Anyway, my vote's down for Revan, simply bearing in mind each individual's accomplishments, regardless of whether or not that is solely due to technology at our disposable back in the 70s/80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabster Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Vader - hands down. Because George Lucas would have to approve the story; and he wouldn't let one of his characters be killed by an EU character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coratus Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Vader died because the lightning wrecked his mechanical parts. He wasn't more or less resilient, he simply got shorted out. I would suggest you go review the definition of the word "resilient". Go ahead, take a moment. I'll wait. Good, you're back. I think you fail to grasp the extent to which Vader is dependent on his suit for survival. Rather than go into detail here, I recommend (if you haven't done so already) that you read Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader. It gives a description from Vader's POV of what living in the suit is like. From my understanding, Vader and the suit, for all intents and purposes, are one. Back to the original point. You really can't say "Vader died because the suit (which he depends on for survival) shorted out--but he's totally able to bounce back!" and expect anyone to take you seriously. We might be living in different realities, but dying isn't really bouncing back in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coratus Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Vader - hands down. Because George Lucas would have to approve the story; and he wouldn't let one of his characters be killed by an EU character. ...because all battles have to end up with the victor killing his opponent, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 ...And by the way, who places a reactor core in their throne room? Sidious. Because he's the Sith God. Abeloth is he Dark Sided God, stronger than anyone even Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Need I point out that Luke Skywalker, who endured the Emperor's Force lightning attack for a longer period of time and (towards the end of the barrage) at the same intensity, survived? And that Vader, who was exposed to it for a far shorter time period, did not? I'm sorry, but in my book, it's Luke that shows the greater resiliency, not Vader. How do you know it was at the same intensity? Sidious wanted to torture him. Vader was about to kill him. It only makes sense that he'd amp the voltage up. Besides, it's already canon that Vader is more resilient when it comes to force lightning than any other jedi/force sensitive shown. No one has displayed the level of resistance Vader has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sintor Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Batman will kill them in no time !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkMarauder Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) How do you know it was at the same intensity? Sidious wanted to torture him. Vader was about to kill him. It only makes sense that he'd amp the voltage up. Besides, it's already canon that Vader is more resilient when it comes to force lightning than any other jedi/force sensitive shown. No one has displayed the level of resistance Vader has. This. Sidious was playing with Luke, opting to torture him before killing him. As soon as Vader grabbed him he unleashed his full channelled power to attempt to stop him. Of course, Vader being as resilient as he is, was able to withstand Sidious' power for a limited amount of time. Had Luke been victim to the same amount of Force energy, he would have died almost instantly. Edited December 16, 2011 by DarkMarauder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEuZZ Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 What a stupid question, Vader all!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevansSoul Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Revan, no doubt about it. The most powerful Force user of his time, not a Jedi, not a Sith, more than the sum of the two. Vader fell to the Dark Side, Revan never did. He did everything according to his own will. Plus he was a brilliant strategist, bending his enemy's will to serve his own cause, whereas Vader just went around killing. Kreia said it: Revan was power, looking at him was like looking at the heart of the Force. "Even back then you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadedfate Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Revan, no doubt about it. The most powerful Force user of his time, not a Jedi, not a Sith, more than the sum of the two. Vader fell to the Dark Side, Revan never did. He did everything according to his own will. Plus he was a brilliant strategist, bending his enemy's will to serve his own cause, whereas Vader just went around killing. Kreia said it: Revan was power, looking at him was like looking at the heart of the Force. "Even back then you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul." Not true in the least..the Sith Emperor basically controlled him like a puppet. And beat him like an unwanted red headed step child when confronted again. Sorry, Revan isn't the be all end all that the fan boy crowd thinks. Lucas has stated the most powerful of all time are Luke and Sidious and Vader had the potential to be more powerful then the latter. Reven was nothing compared to those 3. Lucas is God when it comes to this argument...no matter how much fan boy rage you wanna muster and the fantasy you want to live in from playing Kotor and thinking your revan was the L33t super awesome character, the facts are, in canon, he's not. Period. Edited December 19, 2011 by Jadedfate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 OP is saying in their prime, so Vader in his prime would wipe the floor with Revan seeing as he would be even more powerful then Palpatine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seoh Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Revan vs pre-armour Vader = Revan win easy Revan Vs Armoured Vader = Revan win but a decent fight Revan Vs Vader if he hadn't fallen in lava and been allowed 10 years to grow and master the darkside = Ultimate Vader win. On a side note i would love to see an alternate timeline where vader beats obi-wan at mustaffar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiahoufig Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Revan vs pre-armour Vader = Revan win easy Revan Vs Armoured Vader = Revan win but a decent fight Revan Vs Vader if he hadn't fallen in lava and been allowed 10 years to grow and master the darkside = Ultimate Vader win. On a side note i would love to see an alternate timeline where vader beats obi-wan at mustaffar. If you played the ROTS game, there is actually an alternate ending if you play as Vader on Mustafar. He ends up killing Kenobi on Mustafar then shortly after kills the Emperor and takes over the galaxy in his stead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 OP is saying in their prime, so Vader in his prime would wipe the floor with Revan seeing as he would be even more powerful then Palpatine. Exact definition of prime- the period or state of greatest perfection or vigor of human life. So basically were doing Vader's most powerful moment in his lifetime vs Revan's during the most powerful moment in his lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldstrom Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 How can palpatine be so powerfull as you say when he was getting his butt handed to him by mace windo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiahoufig Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 How can palpatine be so powerfull as you say when he was getting his butt handed to him by mace windo. It was a ruse to further deceive Anakin into thinking the Jedi were trying to forcibly take over the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKaledan Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Vader got beat by his old jedi master. Kenobi would, and did wipe the floor with anakin. Obi wan was old in IV, plus vader was more machine then man, on top of the fact, that obi wan knew he would continue to train once he became one with the force. so he didnt put up a fight. if he truly lost the match, there would have been a body. Vader would get demolished by revan. case closed. even his apprentice puts the beats on him. Vader is over rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadedfate Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Vader got beat by his old jedi master. Kenobi would, and did wipe the floor with anakin. Obi wan was old in IV, plus vader was more machine then man, on top of the fact, that obi wan knew he would continue to train once he became one with the force. so he didnt put up a fight. if he truly lost the match, there would have been a body. Vader would get demolished by revan. case closed. even his apprentice puts the beats on him. Vader is over rated. No Idea what you're talking about, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKaledan Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 No Idea what you're talking about, huh? Obi wan beats Vader on mustafarr. obi wan lets vader kill him in new hope. This isnt a REVAN IS ALL POWERFUL fan boy post. but the fact remains, vader gets beat by a lot of people. at any point. to fight revan, who was a force user, not a slave to light or dark wouldnt be much of a contest imo. his apprentice (starkiller The force unleashed) beats him at the end of the story. sidious doesnt even really kill him, he sacrifices his life force to subdue the emperor. though i guess that part is up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruan Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 As cool as Darth Vader is and as strong as he is in the force, he lacks knowledge. As Anakin Skywalker he was trained by Obi-Wan Kenobi who had only just himself become a Knight when taking Anakin as his first padawan. Anakin was never recognized as a Jedi Master before turning to the dark side. Anakin's experiance as a padawan and knight mainly center on the clone wars; killing lots of inept droids and fighting only two Sith. When Anakin turned to the dark side, Darth Sidious didn't teach him anything. As Darth Vader he was defeated by Obi-Wan Kenobi and crippled. Darth Sidious rescued him and set him up in a partial cyborg body and continued to not teach him anything* but rather just treated him like an errand boy sending him around to assassinate stray Jedi who avoided the purge. Darth Vader never gained any real knowledge of the dark side besides "ANGER = STRONG, RAWR!!!". Lastly, I'm relatively sure Sidious ensured that Vader's suit was vulnerable to Force Lightning since a few seconds of lightning broke Vader's respirator. We'd probably have to ignore this in any "vs" argument just to level the playing field though. * Sidious had no incentive to teach Vader anything about the dark side because he never intended for Vader to become the master, rather Sidious would resurrect himself using the Force and clone bodies and become immortal. Vader was a throw-away apprentice as we see when Sidious trys to recruit Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKaledan Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 As cool as Darth Vader is and as strong as he is in the force, he lacks knowledge. As Anakin Skywalker he was trained by Obi-Wan Kenobi who had only just himself become a Knight when taking Anakin as his first padawan. Anakin was never recognized as a Jedi Master before turning to the dark side. Anakin's experiance as a padawan and knight mainly center on the clone wars; killing lots of inept droids and fighting only two Sith. When Anakin turned to the dark side, Darth Sidious didn't teach him anything. As Darth Vader he was defeated by Obi-Wan Kenobi and crippled. Darth Sidious rescued him and set him up in a partial cyborg body and continued to not teach him anything* but rather just treated him like an errand boy sending him around to assassinate stray Jedi who avoided the purge. Darth Vader never gained any real knowledge of the dark side besides "ANGER = STRONG, RAWR!!!". Lastly, I'm relatively sure Sidious ensured that Vader's suit was vulnerable to Force Lightning since a few seconds of lightning broke Vader's respirator. We'd probably have to ignore this in any "vs" argument just to level the playing field though. * Sidious had no incentive to teach Vader anything about the dark side because he never intended for Vader to become the master, rather Sidious would resurrect himself using the Force and clone bodies and become immortal. Vader was a throw-away apprentice as we see when Sidious trys to recruit Luke. Pretty much this ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) How can palpatine be so powerfull as you say when he was getting his butt handed to him by mace windo. Because is Mace is with no doubt #3 or #2 for best duelists of all time. Standing equal with Yoda and below Luke Skywalker. And Sidious wasn't even trying. In a force battle, Sidious wins. Edited December 19, 2011 by BrandonSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruan Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Because is Mace is with no doubt #3 or #2 for best duelists of all time. Standing equal with Yoda and below Luke Skywalker. And Sidious wasn't even trying. In a force battle, Sidious wins. Also Sidious threw the fight and used the situation to turn Anakin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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