This is what I posted on my Guild's forums...(PvP rant)

[lolsaber]

Dominus (3 faction RVR) and GW2 will hopefully be the next actual games with good PVP in them. I am enjoying my time in SWTOR but it is PVP lite.

[SWImara]

Correct. I feel that BW realizes that there is other competition out there and they need to make changes quickly in order to keep players subbing. i think it's a big deal that they are fixing ilum, nerfing the op, bracket wz, and other changes so quickly. That's why I stated that I am going to give this game 6 months. That is a long enough time to get a good idea as to where this game will be heading.

Yeah I was surprised to read 6mos in your OP, it was the only reason I decided to respond as I initially took it as standard forums QQ ragequit style. I've unfortunately had a great deal of faith in developers before (I am still embarrassed for dragging my friends into Age of Conan) but the speed of BW fixes/responses is pretty impressive. I think I am signed up for a 3 month sub atm though I couldn't see leaving at the current pace of progress. Hopefully as time goes on and more of the standard revolving PvP crowd ragequits and moves off to some new MMO to ***** about, the forums will mellow out and some solid feedback can occur without having to sift through huge piles of troll ****.

 

As an aside, I am never really pro-nerfs but that's separate from my general stance on PvP.

[Stilly]

This game was never intended or marketed to be PVP centric.

 

/end thread

 

If you are going to post read the rest of the thread first. If you don't want to read the thread don't post.

 

Anyways.

 

Lots of good points made in here. I love the idea of npcs reacting to your achievements in both pvp and pve. I love both aspects of this game and feel like neither side has been neglected. Was this game built for pvpers? Nope. Does bw understand that ignoring a percentage of the population is a mistake? Yep.

 

This is easily the most polished mmo I've seen at launch. Unfortunetly the voice of the impatient American teenager has taken over the forums almost entirely.

[MrIrrelevant]

I was expecting new and amazing things and yet what I get is a game that when it is all said and done is WoW but Star Wars themed.

 

OK, I can in here looking to actually read through and see what you had to say, but I stopped and refused to read any more once I read the above. And not because I'm a defender of the pvp, because I think it can use a lot of work, but you were seriously expecting something new and amazing? That's your own damn fault and I feel no pity or care for you.

 

First off, is today your first day on the forums? You would have to be blind to have never read at least 100 threads on how this game is basically a wow clone. Having never played wow, I cannot comment on that. But even so, I came in expecting PvP. Yes, PvP just like it is in any other theme park-styled, fantasy MMO.

 

I just don't get the whole, I expected this to be groundbreaking. Look, if it was groundbreaking, it wouldn't be called pvp, it wouldn't be called pve, it wouldn't be called a theme-park MMO. Maybe if they said they were coming out with a groundbreaking style of PvPvRvQ in their new age MMO, I'd have expected something different. I know it's a hard concept to grasp for some people, but PvP can only be PvP. Sure you can add all the sprinkles you like, but it will always be like the others.

 

 

I'm not saying this game has no issues, by all means, criticize those, but complaining about this game being like another just really bothers me from a logic standpoint.

[Edex]

lol eve spreadsheet.

[Torothin]

OK, I can in here looking to actually read through and see what you had to say, but I stopped and refused to read any more once I read the above. And not because I'm a defender of the pvp, because I think it can use a lot of work, but you were seriously expecting something new and amazing? That's your own damn fault and I feel no pity or care for you.

 

First off, is today your first day on the forums? You would have to be blind to have never read at least 100 threads on how this game is basically a wow clone. Having never played wow, I cannot comment on that. But even so, I came in expecting PvP. Yes, PvP just like it is in any other theme park-styled, fantasy MMO.

 

I just don't get the whole, I expected this to be groundbreaking. Look, if it was groundbreaking, it wouldn't be called pvp, it wouldn't be called pve, it wouldn't be called a theme-park MMO. Maybe if they said they were coming out with a groundbreaking style of PvPvRvQ in their new age MMO, I'd have expected something different. I know it's a hard concept to grasp for some people, but PvP can only be PvP. Sure you can add all the sprinkles you like, but it will always be like the others.

 

 

I'm not saying this game has no issues, by all means, criticize those, but complaining about this game being like another just really bothers me from a logic standpoint.

 

 

Once again you did not read the entire thread. take the time to read it before bashing there is legit content here.

[Soulaufein]

Torothin: dont bother. Personally, I am appaled by some of the replies here.

 

Dont bother bring EVE to these forums, 90% of this game's current playerbase has absolutely no idea how EVE works.

 

Really, I have to say it again, am really surprised - negatively - by some of the replies regarding the PvP in EVE.

[MrIrrelevant]

Once again you did not read the entire thread. take the time to read it before bashing there is legit content here.

 

I wasn't bashing. And again, I said I stopped reading once I read that part. I also stated that there are legit issues and that those issues should be discussed.

[savionen]

95% of EVE PvP was the equivalent of "bring the class, not the player" since so many setups hard countered other setups. The winner of most fights were determined before they even started. Mixed with that someone who played for 3 years had a massive advantage over someone that played for 6 months.

 

It's effectively everything that is bad with modern MMO PVP.

Edited January 26, 2012 by savionen

[MrIrrelevant]

Torothin: dont bother. Personally, I am appaled by some of the replies here.

 

Dont bother bring EVE to these forums, 90% of this game's current playerbase has absolutely no idea how EVE works.

 

Really, I have to say it again, am really surprised - negatively - by some of the replies regarding the PvP in EVE.

 

I would say not to bother bringing eve to these forums because I don't think the two games could possibly be any more different, down to the very design of the game. It's an old cliche, but you are comparing apples and oranges, are you not? Let me throw some knowledge at you from a business model

 

Please take into account what PvP is... player vs player. A significant portion of the quality of PvP comes from the...players. If you have a niche subscriber base, you are bound to have better anything involving a significant input from the player base. Why is that, just because EVE has better devs?

 

No, it's because when you have a niche group, you have not only an invested player base, but also a player base that is pulling from the same end of the rope. You are also catering and developing your game to suit 1 or 2 types of people at the most. That is you business model, you are satisfied pulling in enough revenue off your loyal subs to pay for overhead and make a few bucks. It's like owning a little pub bar, nothing fancy, but works great, and you have the same people there every single day.

 

You get a game like wow or swtor, you have a huge melting pot of people, all wanting this game to cater to them, and be specifically what they want. So everyone is pulling in different directions, and guess what, they physically cannot all be pleased. The business model is to make as much money as possible while you are the new hot thing, and to do so, you need to appeal to the largest group of people. Others will follow and you'll make a couple bucks off them before they leave. And guess who the smallest group of players is.....pvp, so who do you think gets the short end of the stick? It's like owning a night club, superficial, and huge crowds of club heads and guys looking for ***. Everything is overpriced and they don't have your favorite bear on tap...

Edited January 26, 2012 by MrIrrelevant

[Drakks]

Here's a good video with some solo-PVP in EVE:

 

And here's a fleet fight:

 

 

This is the most hilarious stuff I've ever watched. The commands? Oh yea. VERY military. The action of then clicking a mouse or macro? Yea, just like the military does!

 

Good stuff.

[HBninjaX]

try running

 

you might find it more satisfying instead of playing computer games until your eyes bleed and wonder why you're not having any fun

Edited January 26, 2012 by HBninjaX

[Drakks]

The only people who seem to think I don't know what I'm talking about were the people who did not fully experience Eve. It seems like former Eve-Online players agree with my views for the most part according to the responses here.

 

This made me laugh as well.

 

It's like art, if you don't think it's art then it's because you just didn't get it!

 

Yes, all the people who think Eve is a hilariously bad game just didn't get it. We all meet once a week to try and have someone explain it so that we will, but many of us didn't bring excel so we couldn't open the spreadsheets.

[Torothin]

OOo those links make me realize what great pvp is....

[RadehX]

This made me laugh as well.

 

It's like art, if you don't think it's art then it's because you just didn't get it!

 

Yes, all the people who think Eve is a hilariously bad game just didn't get it. We all meet once a week to try and have someone explain it so that we will, but many of us didn't bring excel so we couldn't open the spreadsheets.

 

7 years of Eve, and never used spreadsheets or anything like it. The clearly you don't know what you're talking about

[Torothin]

7 years of Eve, and never used spreadsheets or anything like it. The clearly you don't know what you're talking about

 

Exactly what is this eve and spreadsheet talk. I don't get it? I never once saw a spread sheet in that game...

[DoctorWhorrible]

You know. . . Eve didn't go anywhere. As in you can totally still play it. Edited January 26, 2012 by DoctorWhorrible

[Vonrictus]

You're looking for Ultima Online or Lineage 2. There will never be a game like this again in Western markets. It upsets too many paying customers to play a game, that is supposed to be fun, and end up losing everything they achieved over months , or even years, in a matter of seconds. Especially if they are not interested in PVP in the first place.

 

WoW proved that focusing on casual gamers is more profitable than catering to hardcore gamers (there are more of them). SWTOR has followed suit for the most part, and this game is more focused on the story and questing than endgame of either type, PVE or PVP.

 

Hate to break it to you, but hardcore ruleset open world MMOs are not sustainable or profitable in this day and age. Their fanbase is too small a niche compared to the average casual MMO player of today. The game you want will never be developed again. Sorry.

 

Really? You are talking out of your ***. I love these people that act like know-it-alls, like some kind of market analysis expert.

[Izshin]

Again EVE Online does not have an endgame and the PvP is as boring as watching paint dry. EVE is one of those games you watch from afar with popcorn because of the spectacle and silliness that comes form it. But even EVE's areas of contestable are already falling apart as they had no real money sinks in the game and people are thus so over bloated with ISK there that even losing a capitol fleet these days isn't even something to sweat over.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about. NCdot reporting in.

[RadehX]

You know. . . Eve didn't go anywhere. As in you can totally still play it.

 

Which after 7 years is a pretty good sign. And the developers are constantly updating the game too...like the "recent" graphics update. Soon they'll add a 3rd person shooter to it too, where people fight over planets on the ground.

[RadehX]

Exactly what is this eve and spreadsheet talk. I don't get it? I never once saw a spread sheet in that game...

 

It's their way of saying that they don't actually like having to use their brains

 

There's no spread sheets in EVE PVP...but it takes a bit more planning than smashing buttons. Obviously that's too much brain activity for some...

 

Anyway, enough EVE praise. SWTOR has some stuff I really like. Huttball's fun, a lot of the classes are fun to play, and it's kinda cool that you can get PVP within a few seconds/minutes if you want. That's a pretty cool thing given that in EVE you sometimes have to fly around quite a bit to find a good fight. SWTOR definitely has potential, but I really hope the devs continue to listen to the community. That's THE most important thing imo.

Edited January 27, 2012 by RadehX

[Barrechor]

Again EVE Online does not have an endgame and the PvP is as boring as watching paint dry. EVE is one of those games you watch from afar with popcorn because of the spectacle and silliness that comes form it. But even EVE's areas of contestable are already falling apart as they had no real money sinks in the game and people are thus so over bloated with ISK there that even losing a capitol fleet these days isn't even something to sweat over.

 

Now while having objectives to fight over would be keen, this is a theme park MMO. There is going to be no resources, or moons or whatever to fight over. Just a map designed around points to control, at best, to win the day.

 

Spoken like a true highsec cearbear. EVE PvP sucks *** now due to the fact that CCP just encouraged cap fights but a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I loved going against 16 man fleets with a 4 man gang. EVE PvP got your blood pumping more than any of these crappy cartoon MMOs. You clearly werent good at PvP in EVE otherwise you would know how mind blowingly good it can be.

[GreenReafer]

Why do people always parrot this line with nothing to back it up? Minority? Perhaps. Vast minority? Just no.

 

It's funny, they are in the PvP forums crying how PvP players are the minority, if that's true head to PvE forums

Edited January 27, 2012 by GreenReafer

[salom]

8 years of EVE and practically nothing of anything else. I think your idea of an MMO and pvp in an MMO is a bit biased.

 

Eve had consequence. Something clueless devs will never have the vision for. Ccp is going to flip the industry on its head with dust 514 though. Mark my words.

Edited January 27, 2012 by salom

[Slteath]

First, EVE is very different game than WoW or SWTOR.

Second, WoW and SWTOR caters to a broader audience.

Third, I love both EVE and SWTOR (for now).

 

I played EVE for 3 years. WoW for 1 year, SWTOR since early access. City of Heroes for 6 months, DC Universe for 1 month. SWG for a year.

 

yes, I do think EVE PvP is the best in the industry now, it gives people rewards if they are willing to risk. nothing makes my heart pumps faster than flying thru nullsec in a transport ship storing what I have worked for for 2 weeks. (i was kinda a smuggler, transporting items from nullsec to empire). Everytime I came out of warp, I worry that there will be gate campers waiting for me, it's like the dealer flipping over the River card when you need that ace to win the hand.

 

SWTOR PvP is not as fun, especially on Ilum mainly because both faction realize that there is nothing to gain by not cooperating, hence the kills trading. As the OP said, the risk / reward ratio is not in balance now, make people fear of dying, lure people towards killing, then the PvP will manifest itself.