OP has the weakest critque I've ever read of a game.. "NO GRENADES TILL LEVEL 4!11" Getting to level 4 took all of 15 minutes. Only two game modes are playable, but the mode with the walkers where you defend/attack Hoth is like living a childhood dream. I'm sure there is still plenty of time to screw it up, but the game is off to a good start.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Really bad premades will lose against pugs made up of strong players? Ok, check. What does this change?

Where did I say that? The two options are get rolled to the point of being no fun, or win? The answer, oh cliched one, is not that I expect to win. I do, however, expect that to be a possible outcome. Against the constant stream of premades who only want to play to roll pugs, it is not an option and that is the only problem. In closing, I would ask the same question -- "this is what pvp has become?". A bunch of players who call themselves pvpers because they group queue specifically to beat pugs?

I get that some people are playing with friends, or maybe they enjoy farming players with their friends. Either way their enjoyment > that of anyone else. If I just want to screw around in an unranked, I really shouldn't be punished for it yet that's exactly what happens. So tell you what, how about people who "want to play with friends" only play against other people who also "want to play with friends" and I'll only play against people who want to queue solo. My bet is this would last about a week before many teams of friends start complaining about organized teams stomping them to the same degree they do pugs, and I'm betting you these people will suddenly not be as interested in pvping with friends. People can pretend all day long it's just about playing with your group of friends (and I'm not even saying that isn't true), but the constant winning and being rewarded for it certainly reinforces how much fun it is for them.

Look, it's really not rocket surgery -- two very basic statements: - a bad operative can use roll poorly and still get a high level of return from it's usage. - a good operative is fairly impossible to stop without a level of coordination completely not required to combat any other class. And we can completely ignore good players here, as they do things on any class that will make you cry -- look at the low skilled players. There is really no comparable skill that when used at a very low skill cap provides the same benefit that isn't on a 2+ minute cool down.

Who listens to tells from randoms who are angry about pvp? It's a star wars video game -- sending that tell in the first place means you lose at everything that actually matters.

I don't assume be good -- hell, I'm hard pressed to say I was good when my characters had relevant gear. I do mean within reason though. The issue is that even as a marginal player I'm nothing but farm bait regardless of skill, when what I hoped was to be in that, you know, middle of the pack area I like hanging out in. And absolutely, I fully expected after 9 months (and the addition of 5 level) to have my gear completely invalidated. The issue that bothers me though, is that to the system now really means you have to have started at level 11, which is something I can't do on my existing guys -- my guardian and scoundrel will hit 55 and be woefully behind the curve in pvp. I'm not really crying all that much about it, which was kind of the tone of the OP.. but I do find it disheartening and a bit frustrating.

The people who get farmed at 55 are those who don't understand the very silly bolster system, or expect it to be somewhat straight forward. People who didn't sit on commendations while leveling, because it never occurred to them to plot out pvp progress that early on. Returning players, new players, anyone not basing their free time about reading more about a video game they may only casually play -- or had the silly notion that their moderate skill would yield moderate returns, when in fact it means nothing in the face of an opponent with better gear, especially as a melee class. And no, no one "deserves" to be farmed. It does nothing for the game population, or for the overall enjoyment of anyone. If I join a new operation, I can tell the team I'm new and ask if they mind. Most of the time it doesn't matter, and I can learn watching good players. As a returning player pvp is a joke -- my level 50's from 9 months ago were using an entirely different system. My guardian, valor 64, has a worthless Battlemaster's set (Which I got from running back and forth pointlessly on Ilum when it was a thing AND had a valor requirement to use), and wasn't farming commendations for the past 40 levels to convert into ranked dojobbers, mostly because they didn't exist --- so when he hits 55, there is no chance I'm going to have access to reasonable gear. Same goes for my scoundrel. The problem is that I have to play what is, in essence, a fairly not powerful character and just enjoy being farmed until I can scrounge up enough to be functional? I'm curious if anyone believes that to be enjoyable? It's kind of silly to expect people who play here or there, or returning players, to do anything about a system of pvp gearing that now kind of requires you to start thinking about it at lvl 11.

And when you and the 20 people you consider are good are all that's left in pvp, I'm sure the queue times will be magnificent. Playing solo or grouped is just a style, what do you have against solo players who don't want to play like you do? It's not like you don't know it's a ******** system that lets you farm them.

They don't respond because they don't have to respond -- at this point, people will play this game till they are done playing this game, and nothing short of the impossible will change that. Players will float the game some money via the store while they are here, and then move on. There is enough of a stable and transient population to keep the game kicking for a bit still, but expecting anything major in a niche area of the game (read as: pvp) is probably going to leave you wanting.

It works like this, sadly. Check ANY lower tier population MMO with pvp (Age of Conan, EQ2, TOR, etc etc) Take this with a grain of salt from random internet person: In order to get a queue time that isn't exceptionally long, they don't break out queues and let groups farm solo players. Let's be honest, the solo players are more casual and are going to play still regardless.. they just won't pvp often, and the group players will keep the queues alive farming pugs because. I.. uh. I have no idea on this one. Anyway I think I saw a micro-transaction plot of players once that showed how the raiding/premade type spent roughly 3-4x ( I really don't remember the amount, but that was what popped in my head first) as much in the stores... don't quote me on that, but it was an obscene difference in spending at the in game store. You can post all day long about how premades/group queues (whatever it's dubbed in that game) ruin it for solos, and you're 100% right -- and every one from the top down knows it. It's just being ruined for a smaller crowd. The problem is that the juice just isn't worth the squeeze to fix it, and the premade players: the loudest and whiniest contingent of players in any game, would literally lose their minds if they had to wait in group queues and ended up only playing teams that could fight back -- and, if I understood what I read correctly, the revenue loss from them taking their toys and going home would be substantial (I'm trying to find it, no idea where it's buried).

Master strike is now, and always has been interuptable in one of two ways - 1. the target just moves. 2. you get KB'd. Uninteruptable simply means that someone cannot use an interupt on you and stop the animation/attack. Nothing more. It's still an unimpressive attack in pvp for reason 1 and 2, against anyone remotely awake. Focus took a nasty hit in pvp, I wouldn't play it anymore now that it's lost the ebb and flow it used to have. Vig still has decent damage chains, but it lost HP for a terrible survival ability that I've honestly yet to use (I cannot for the life of me figure out why I'd blow focus on it.. at best, I live a 2-3 seconds, at worst I blew my ability to kill the target on me) All in all, patch was just as unimpressive as most of my fellow old beta testers assumed it would be. Which is sad, but not unexpected. My last post, just canceled my account -- enjoyed these forums, good luck to all. - Kell

I play the same class, it's not. Literally keeping singularity up and sweeping is not rocket science, and repeated uses of it are based on exactly what I said they are.

You're aware from my signature I play a guardian, right? Have since beta.

At no point did I say stealth was op, just that it creates a completely predictable balancing problem that occurs in every mmo. Go back a post or two. My point is that stealth needs to be changed from a persistant state to a short-duration buff, and then it would be easier to balance out damage without all the nerfs. "Stealth classes", which are generally just rogue variants, routinely take the worst beatings in terms of nerfs due to pvp -- and it's always because of stealth and stealth based openers being perceived as doing too much damage because the opponent doesn't get the same chance to fight back they do when they can see someone coming.