This is my current spec and imo the best Guardian PvP spec (though the defense vig hybrid that takes warding call over Plasma Brand is very nice as well).

Vig in Shien is actually not getting anything. 6% is what we already get. Sadly it's taking away that 6% from Soresu Vig Guardians in lieu of an increase to melee and ranged defenses.

I hate to poke my head into this troll thread, but being in the Secret World closed beta I think I need to temper everyone's expectations (as people seem to be lauding that game in this thread for some reason). There are massive problems with that game at this stage that go beyond polish. I'm not gonna say it will be horrible, but people really need to temper their expectations of that game in particular or else they're gonna be very disappointed .

I would hesitate to run around in PvP in Shien form without Commanding Awe. Full Focus Guardians make up for their "squishiness" by running in Shi-Cho which has other benefits from the Focus tree. Full and Hybrid Vigilance make up for it by taking Commanding Awe and switching into or staying in Soresu. In general both of the specs you list just seem to clash with their respective talents rather than having a lot of talents that work together (getting the auto crit force sweep and multiple attacks that grant singularity for instance). I'm fully open to someone telling me I'm completely wrong, but your specs seem more like a wish list of what you hope will work at 50 rather than what actually will. For PvP spec I currently recommend either a full Vigilance or a hybrid Defense/Vigilance. I detail the full vigilance spec in this vid: with a few clips showcasing the advantages of the spec. When it comes done to it, I think you'll have a much harder time running without any damage reduction talents or forms in 50 PvP. Guardians do wear Heavy Armor, but it doesn't mean much against a lot of the heavy hitting attacks getting thrown around in PvP.

I've been experiencing something similar, I think. I've had times where my master strike goes through its animations, but does no actual damage. I'll have to pay more attention and see if its happening when I'm leaping or not.

I would recommend making your raid frames both taller and wider so as to be able to see who is taking damage more efficiently. I've found that when I'm in the protection groove that playing my Guardian becomes a lot like playing a healer. I'm constantly keeping one eye on the bars so I can see who to guard, leap to, and taunt off of. I wonder if you've ever tried the Defense/Vigilance hybrid for pvp tanking? I've found full defense to not be as useful in pvp as the hybrid as talents like Unremitting and Commanding Awe are just so valuable in a pvp environment. From a video standpoint, unless you are going to do commentary I would recommend not having a live mic over top of your video. Coughs and sneezes aren't very enjoyable to listen to and neither is hearing a constant mouse click.

In any MMO being "taken" is always gonna be about the kind of guild that you get into and the people you run with. I've never had a problem being taken for dps, but my guild knows I"m a quality player. I've only recently got into ops and flashpoints as I pretty much only pvp'd before recently, but I can tell you that my dps has not been a liability in HM Lost Island or HM Eternity Vault & Karagga's Palace. Explosive Conflict is another matter, however. That place is progression content currently and thus will be restricted to specific classes and specs. But that's nothing new to MMOs. The thing is, though, what is needed for specific encounters is always a moving a target in MMOs. This patch progression raiders swear by bring x class and y class. Next patch they'll say that z class is the only dps worthwhile etc. I wouldn't worry too much about whether you'll be viable in progression content as that is such a moving target and if that were your thing you'd simply play the most efficient class for the time rather than the one you enjoy. In the end, playing the class you enjoy is always more important than playing the class that gets easy invites to progression content imo. So, in short and in my experience, if you're a quality player and have a good guild they will always be glad to take you wherever you want to go. If you're looking to do bleeding edge content Guardian dps may not be right at this time, but it's always a small club of specs and classes that are "right" for bleeding edge content and if you want to stay in that club it requires gearing up multiple classes and being proficient at multiple specs within that class.

I mostly pvp and Hard Mode Lost Island was only the second Hard Mode flashpoint I ever did. . . And it's ruined every other flashpoint for me. Lost Island is absolutely engaging and as a melee requires much more out of a player than pretty much an flashpoint. I can barely stay awake through other Hard Mode flashpoints, but any time a guild member wants to do Lost Island I am THERE. The rewards aren't great, but it's the most fun I can have in a flashpoint in the game. I'm not really the type of guy who wants to farm an easy instance to get lots of gear (which may be why I pvp'd so much at the start of this game), but if Lost Island is the direction they are going with their PvE content I am absolutely hooked in! Why do we climb Mount Everest? Because it is there. (of course Mount Everest didn't drop tionese crystals. . . That decision is kind of goofy)

Some friends asked me to do some guides on how I play my Guardian so I've got 2 episodes up of a series I'm doing on Guardian PvP (youtube link in my sig). So obviously my answer is: Yes. It's pretty easy to play a bad Guardian, but with a little dedication a well played Guardian can really help turn the tides of a battle. I'm not sure there's another class that can switch from heavy damage to protection as quickly as we can. Even in a full Vigilance spec (as opposed to the vig/def hybrid) it is best to think like a hybrid. You should always be evaluating which saber form will be the most beneficial for a given encounter. That "stance dancing" is a large part of what keeps me so engaged in the class. And don't even get me started on how amazing talents like Unremitting and Commanding Awe are. We've got some great tools to utilize for PvP. They may take a little more effort to fully utilize than say a adrenal/relic stacking Powertech, but Guardian is a very rewarding class to play well.

Just curious here, what are you parsing at and what would you recommend for dps over Vigilance for the Guardian? As far as I can tell Vigilance is our best option for dps in PvE and for dps and tanking in PvP, but I'm open to other ideas.

I'm not really sure why you feel that a Vigilance Guardian is "the least damaging" dps in the game. Our burst is not particularly high, but that's not where our power comes from. Classes and specs like the Pyro PT also rely on lining up cooldowns, relics, and adrenals to do the kind of silly burst you will see posted on youtube. This Powertech posts some full matches ( ) and you can see that his damage is always very good, but if he is not glowing red he is not doing the silly burst that gets featured in heavily edited videos. I may get melted by a sniper or powertech lining up buffs, but it's also rare for them to have done more damage then me at the end of a match.

I would suggest running your own test with the MOXparser on dummy's and during raids or pvp. Master Strike is an absolute beast of an attack now. The last tick of Master Strike I've seen crit for slightly over 4k which is also the highest I've seen my Overhead Slash crit.

You have every single point possible to spend in defense? O.o That seems an odd choice to me. Have you tried the Defense/Vigilance hybrid? I don't know how any Guardian can keep their sanity in PvP without Unremitting.

Honestly, I feel extremely powerful after 1.2 and worry everytime I see a 4k+ crit on overhead slash or master strike that the angry mob that's going after Sent/Maras will turn on a dime and come after us. . . . Play it cool guys. Don't let the secret out:rak_03: Edit: Sorry for the double post. Screwed the pooch on that one.

I've been singing the praises of Vigilance for a long time. It's great to see so many others starting to see the beauty in my favorite spec. . . Well it's at least good to have to stop defending it against Guardians that were all "Focus or death!" back in the day.

Why would you take the poor dot on overhead and bladestorm over the plasma brand dot? It's also hard to give feedback on the build when I don't know what you're trying to do with it. PvE DPS? PvP? Either way I personally don't see a point in going so far into Vigilance without taking Plasma Brand. Zen Strike as well is pretty important to any Vigilance DPS right now. If this is a PvP build I would drop both of the burning talents as well as Narrowed Focus. Take Sundering Throw, Zen Strike and Plasma Brand. Take two points out of Dust storm and put 1 in Solidified Force (some like to put 2 points in to make it free, but I've found lowering it to 1 sufficient). If this was a PvE build then there's no way you should be skipping talents like Zen Strike and Plasma Brand and you shouldn't need Dust Storm at all.

All we need now is the principle from Billy Madison.

I'm honestly a little surprised that I keep seeing people post Guardian builds that don't take the free Freezing Force. It seemed like such a no brainer to me. With no Deathmatch type warzones in the game everything we do (including killing) is to capture and hold objectives. There is nothing more important you can do than keep an enemy from an objective. Freezing Force spam, to me, seems invaluable at keeping the enemy team on the side of the huttball arena you want them to be, slowing the zerg that's heading back to defend their second node in Alderaan, Keeping an entire team slowly crawling towards the next set of doors in voidstar, etc. Damage and killing are important, but you really don't have to sacrifice that much damage to get a spammable aoe snare. I figured since you took the time to even name your spec you'd be more apt to provide a thoughtful answer why you choose to skip out on Freezing Force at 0 focus.

Stop using it to avoid death and start using it to make your opponent waste their cooldown/relic. There's pretty much no cooldown (barring the one marauders get) that is good to use just as your about to die.

I'll take take you up on that. Want to put that in escrow awhile for me?

See, I keep coming to this thread and it just keeps depressing me. I think my only response in here should have been: Please keep underestimating what Vigilance can do.

I hate o be that guy, but you didn't read the actual paragraph you quoted if this is your response. I understand people love their focus spec and it has large burst which is really sexy. I merely don't agree with all the hype that it is the only way to go. I find many flaws in the spec. Such as the ease of avoiding force sweep and how its biggest damaging ability being an aoe can fluff the numbers to make it look more effective than it really is. I am just of the opinion that the utility the Vigilance tree provides is too good to give up for bursts of damage that require a set series of moves. This could also stem from the reduction in fluidity that occurs when going from Vigilance to Focus. You are more than welcome to keep your Focus spec and wreck face with it. To say I don't know what I'm talking about while cherry picking my post, however, I'd prefer that you stop. We're all on this boat together friend. No need to see who goes wee wee the farthest.

The dots are "icing on the cake" damage and objective interrupters. For damage the fact that Plasma Brand is 12 seconds is troublesome. For defending a node or stopping a cap it is magical. I've held overwhelming odds off a node in Civil War until reinforcements came just by rotating dots around on the attackers so that I could take the speeder back to the node while my dot interrupts their attempt to cap. People focus too much on the dots not being great dots. Both Overhead Slash and Blade storm are hard hitters to begin with (I've had overhead slash crit for 4k+ in 3/4 champ gear). The dot it leaves is nice, but not the selling point of the spec at all. So it isn't worth looking at them as the reason to spec Vigilance.

I'm still amazed that people are so blinded by the flashy numbers that focus puts out or think that the defense tree's talents are great for pvp. Focus spec: GREAT when you don't have gear. GREAT against people with lower expertise than you. FANTASTIC when people aren't moving. Otherwise, it doesn't really hold up. Yes you will do 500k damage in Voidstar. . . And about 400k of that will have been healed almost instantly and be meaningless. It is just so brain-dead simple for your opponent to negate your force sweep in any 1v1 situation due to latency and the myriad of ways the attack bugs out and doesn't hit characters. I started having to run past the opponent I was chasing before I force sweep to guarantee it hit. The word on Focus spec is out and everyone knows exactly what it does and where the majority of its damage comes from and when they see you coming they will avoid your force sweep much more often than you will like. Defense Spec: Yes, it is difficult to kill one of these guys with a healer. . . But who isn't? It's good for providing support, but really full defense spec is not nearly as good as a vigilance/def hybrid. So many of your defenses simply do not get activated in PvP because of the nature of player damage. Personally, I'm not at all convinced that a full defense spec is better or harder to kill than a Soresu Vigilance spec. The tri-fecta of Unremitting, Protector, and Commanding Awe are just straight up PvP survivability talents. They will provide you benefit any time you are under attack within a PvP environment. Sadly this cannot be said of most of the defenses that your defense tree bolsters. Vigilance spec: You know that utility you talk about at the end of your post? Yeah, this is the tree that has it. I'll bring up the holy trinity of Guardian pvp again: Unremitting, Protector, and Commanding Awe. Other classes have these types of talents in their lower tiers so they can pick them up no matter what spec they choose (take a look at commandos ability to take 2 +endurance talents and a +healing received talent). Guardians, however, are sort of screwed by default by not having talent trees as good as the other ACs. They're not bad in a vacuum, but when compared to what some other classes can choose from they come up lacking. So, to a certain point, Vigilance is our default pvp spec. The damage is consistant, they are garunteed crits, dots to stop objective capping, the most pvp survivability talents,and the best damned execute ability in the game (unless they've popped a god cooldown and you hit dispatch they are dead). Yeah, I ranted a lot there. Yeah, these are my opinions garnered from playing all specs of Guardian since the weekend betas (and people have more experience than that I know). Yeah, you will do much better with your favorite spec (you just simply will perform better doing something you enjoy). Take my opinions for what they are: The opinions of a guy who has pvp'd constantly on a Guardian since early access and who has formed his own very strong opinions. Those being: If you want to be a damager, spec Focus until you get decent gear and then head to Vigilance and see if it works out for you as you will have much more utility and deal more meaningful damage rather than a ton of easily healed splash damage. If you want to provide support, consider a Def/Vigilance hybrid or a Soresu Vigilance build as a pure Defense build (and the war leader's gear also mind you) is full of mitigation that doesn't pan out in PvP (there are already many threads on why this is. It sucks, but it's true). When it comes down to it: When you get geared give Vigilance a shot. It's got a ton of goodness that most people overlook in favor of big crits and the idea that the defense spec must be the best pvp tank spec.

I must have missed somewhere that I can't switch stances by hitting a hotkey and start guarding/taunting when someone is in danger. I don't need a hybrid spec to play like a hybrid of tanking and damaging. Obviously you've got your mind made up though. So if we're both finding success in our playing than what is the point in arguing? I have a blast and often top damage/protection/medals in a given game as I'm sure you do so . . . uhm CHeers to both of us?