This is what I posted on my Guild's forums...(PvP rant)

[_Morholt_]

All you do is PvP and you thought that SWTOR was going to keep you interested for 6 months? Wait, don't answer that... just wow.

 

Dunno I'm having a blast facerolling imperials on Rakata Mind Prison every day waiting for guildies to level up to do ops soon. Imps on there are realllllly bad basically if it's not one of 2 premades we win like every time....huttballs are 50 50 the like 2% of the time we see em since we well...don't see em!

[Kelticfury]

It's not being biased when you know PvP should be end game.

 

You "know" this. heh.

 

Its too bad that every MMO ever didn't "know" this, they could have avoided wasting all that time developing level progression and story and such.

 

If you just want to test your skills against other players and ignore the rest of the game, maybe an mmoRPG is the wrong venue for you. Sounds more like call of duty is more your speed.

[DarthOvertone]

Never played Eve, so I have no idea if it's good or not. Definitely makes for some funny rage rants though. If it's anything like these guys describe, Eve must be epic:

Edited January 26, 2012 by DarthOvertone

[Torothin]

HAHAHAHAHA thinks Eve is real PVP HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh my where do you people come from.

 

The same can be said to those who think PvP is great without any risk. Where do you carebears come from? It's nice being able to die knowing you will not lose anything or people will not loot your gear right? So convenient and friendly right?

[JJJShmidt]

BW has never said that PvP was the end-game for SWTOR, nor did they ever expect it to be. If you want a PvP based end-game, you should look for another MMO.

 

people like this drive away the fanbase

[RadehX]

Opinions are vast and far, but honestly, if you consider Eve Online to be the best PvP you lived a sheltered life. Furthermore, hearing stories is just that; stories. PvPers make of the vast minority of MMO gamers, despite their collective ideals. Furthermore, I doubt you played the 7 years that EVE has existed strictly as a PvPer. Since you had to start out heavily PvEing in that game.

 

I spent a grand total of 6 months not PVP'ing, and I started playing EVE in 2004. I think 95% of my time over the past 7 years I was PVP'ing, and only a tiny minority was "money making grind".

 

EVE is by FAR the best PVP MMO out there. Compared to EVE, games like WoW (and SWTOR) are like toddlers fighting Kitschko

 

Not saying SWTOR isn't fun, because I'm having a ton of fun...but I've yet to come across an MMO that rivals its PVP. One guy on here suggested a pirates game (forgot the name), might check that out.

[RadehX]

HAHAHAHAHA thinks Eve is real PVP HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh my where do you people come from.

 

Enlighten us, what game offers better PVP in your opinion? If you say WoW, RIFT, or Gild Wars I'm gonna fall over laughing

[Deshie]

The same can be said to those who think PvP is great without any risk. Where do you carebears come from? It's nice being able to die knowing you will not lose anything or people will not loot your gear right? So convenient and friendly right?

 

You're obviously mad. Everyone knows how bias Eve PvP is. Please just give up. You have no argument. True essence of PvP is games like Counter Strike. When you understand what I said then talk. Dont give me your "I KNOW WHAT REAL PVP IS" when you're obviously clueless.

[Torothin]

I obviously understand that you can't have people lose gear that they spent weeks grinding for. I get that. The mechanics are different. But you can implement things that are worth fighting for and offer rewards/costs money to maintain(cities). That kind of risk/reward pvp can be implemented without a huge over haul to the overall mechanics of the game. Edited January 26, 2012 by Torothin

[lolsaber]

HAHAHAHAHA thinks Eve is real PVP HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh my where do you people come from.

 

EvE is real PVP. I have never been in a game where the players were as organized and skilled. A different kind of skilled than in Themeparks. People had to fit their ships right or they would simply be left behind. People fly in formation, have discipline, if one person doesn't do their job the whole fleet can be lost. People pay attention to the fleet commander and fire only at targets he calls.

 

There's nothing more nerve racking than trying to take down a POS and having a covert ops ship come out of cloak and pop a cyno and have 50 capital ships dumped on your head as you try to put up a counter cyno and have your caps jump theirs while you keep them bubbled. God I miss that game.

 

Using an Aim bot and being able to center your mouse on something and hit a button is not the holy grail of PVP there are lots of kinds.

Edited January 26, 2012 by lolsaber

[Tenthletter]

The same can be said to those who think PvP is great without any risk. Where do you carebears come from? It's nice being able to die knowing you will not lose anything or people will not loot your gear right? So convenient and friendly right?

 

You're looking for Ultima Online or Lineage 2. There will never be a game like this again in Western markets. It upsets too many paying customers to play a game, that is supposed to be fun, and end up losing everything they achieved over months , or even years, in a matter of seconds. Especially if they are not interested in PVP in the first place.

 

WoW proved that focusing on casual gamers is more profitable than catering to hardcore gamers (there are more of them). SWTOR has followed suit for the most part, and this game is more focused on the story and questing than endgame of either type, PVE or PVP.

 

Hate to break it to you, but hardcore ruleset open world MMOs are not sustainable or profitable in this day and age. Their fanbase is too small a niche compared to the average casual MMO player of today. The game you want will never be developed again. Sorry.

[RadehX]

Never played Eve, so I have no idea if it's good or not. Definitely makes for some funny rage rants though. If it's anything like these guys describe, Eve must be epic:

 

Here's a good video with some solo-PVP in EVE:

 

And here's a fleet fight:

 

Notice how the commands are almost military style. You have to be VERY organized to stand a chance. And I don't mean just looking at cooldowns

 

The only issue with that game is the learning curve, it's VERY steep. In SWTOR or WoW you can find good PVP'ers that have only played for 6 months. A 6 month old character in EVE will still be useful and win fights, but if he runs into a 1yr old player or god forbid a 7 year old player, he's toast. The variety of setups is pretty mind blowing too, so even if you recognize the ship, you can't always be sure how he's set up. Requires a ton more tactics than button smashing in WoW-like games.

 

If I'd start playing EVE today, I'd create a starter toon and learn the mechanics of the game for a few weeks...and then spend some RL$ to buy a character (yes, that's possible). It's not even that expensive, and you'd enjoy the game a lot more than spending 2yrs grinding before being "good". The skills train while you're offline too, and you can't make it any faster by grinding. Takes a lot of pressure away because you don't have to grind to become good.

 

Anyway...getting carried away

 

I'm actually enjoying SWTOR PVP, but it's a "light" version of PVP. You don't really risk losing anything, which makes it kinda pointless long term. Nice for a few matches once you grinded up your character, but I doubt I'll spend many nights PVP'ing while missing sleep.

Edited January 26, 2012 by RadehX

[Ulysseus]

PVP is a large term it does not even imply combat ... chess is pvp... some have very different takes on pvp so lets just take his view on pvp and be constructive. I never PVPed on EVE but i can see how this could be fun. I have PVPed in WOW, Rift, Warhammer, DAOC, and all in all there is global, persistant aspect that is missing. DAOC was the closest to that i have played, but still the PVP game could be ignored altogether. The idea i think i get from the OP is that he want a game where even if you are not into the brawl you could actually be PVPing... we could have space combat PVP, we could have PVE race to a boss, we could have intergalactic trading route where PVEers would be protected by PVPers, ...

 

BW boast of story making. They beat others MMO for PVE on that aspect in my eyes... The PVP could use some story... Include PVP into the greater scheme of things.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ulysseus

[SWImara]

To be blunt, after 8 years of any game you can't help but look at it with the rose colored lenses. Hopefully you find some game that lives up to your EVE expectations, the issue is in part that if the game was modeled after what you (or I) like in PvP it might have been totally inaccessible for others.

 

Most people do not want:

• Significant penalty (ie loot dropping or an XP hit) on death
  
• Fights over static territories with guild ownership of areas and the ability to murdalize anyone who poaches.
  
• A heavy focus on player crafted gear and player fueled economy rather than a need to raid grind.
  
• Umm... not 2 sided RvR PvP
  

 

If you expected any of this, you came to the wrong game, sorry friendo, better luck elsewhere. Note however, that your wanting these things doesn't make you better than anyone else, I've played PvP games I consider way more serious than EVE (Shadowbane?) and I am loving SWTOR for what its worth. There are PvP games like Darkfall out there, they might be worth checking out if thats your scene... or hey, EVE is still around.

 

 

You're looking for Ultima Online or Lineage 2. There will never be a game like this again in Western markets. It upsets too many paying customers to play a game, that is supposed to be fun, and end up losing everything they achieved over months , or even years, in a matter of seconds. Especially if they are not interested in PVP in the first place.

 

WoW proved that focusing on casual gamers is more profitable than catering to hardcore gamers (there are more of them). SWTOR has followed suit for the most part, and this game is more focused on the story and questing than endgame of either type, PVE or PVP.

 

Hate to break it to you, but hardcore ruleset open world MMOs are not sustainable or profitable in this day and age. Their fanbase is too small a niche compared to the average casual MMO player of today. The game you want will never be developed again. Sorry.

Very well said, essentially this market isn't for you anymore OP, sorry man but those are the breaks. There are still side-market games out there for the PvPer in all of us, but those games will never be popular with the mainstream, and if you expected SWTOR to be anything but mainstream you seriously fooled yourself.

Edited January 26, 2012 by SWImara

[Torothin]

The only people who seem to think I don't know what I'm talking about were the people who did not fully experience Eve. It seems like former Eve-Online players agree with my views for the most part according to the responses here.

[Torothin]

To be blunt, after 8 years of any game you can't help but look at it with the rose colored lenses. Hopefully you find some game that lives up to your EVE expectations, the issue is in part that if the game was modeled after what you (or I) like in PvP it might have been totally inaccessible for others.

 

Most people do not want:

• Significant penalty (ie loot dropping or an XP hit) on death
  
• Fights over static territories with guild ownership of areas and the ability to murdalize anyone who poaches.
  
• A heavy focus on player crafted gear and player fueled economy rather than a need to raid grind.
  
• Umm... not 2 sided RvR PvP
  

 

If you expected any of this, you came to the wrong game, sorry friendo, better luck elsewhere. Note however, that your wanting these things doesn't make you better than anyone else, I've played PvP games I consider way more serious than EVE (Shadowbane?) and I am loving SWTOR for what its worth. There are PvP games like Darkfall out there, they might be worth checking out if thats your scene... or hey, EVE is still around.

 

 

 

Very well said, essentially this market isn't for you anymore OP, sorry man but those are the breaks. There are still side-market games out there for the PvPer in all of us, but those games will never be popular with the mainstream, and if you expected SWTOR to be anything but mainstream you seriously fooled yourself.

 

 

Good post. I am not expecting a full-blown eve. But certain aspects could be implemented without any overhaul to game mechanics to improve the state of PvP in this game.

[SWImara]

PVP is a large term it does not even imply combat ... chess is pvp... some have very different takes on pvp so lets just take his view on pvp and be constructive. I never PVPed on EVE but i can see how this could be fun. I have PVPed in WOW, Rift, Warhammer, DAOC, and all in all there is global, persistant aspect that is missing. DAOC was the closest to that i have played, but still the PVP game could be ignored altogether. The idea i think i get from the OP is that he want a game where even if you are not into the brawl you could actually be PVPing... we could have space combat PVP, we could have PVE race to a boss, we could have intergalactic trading route where PVEers would be protected by PVPers, ...

 

BW boast of story making. They beat others MMO for PVE on that aspect in my eyes... The PVP could use some story... Include PVP into the greater scheme of things.

This^^

 

Is a legitimate and well thought out seeming suggestion. SWTOR has a pretty amazing story and having PvP work into it somehow would be genuinely different from how it is handled in other games. Even little things like having NPCs notice that your Valor 60 or whatever character is like the deadliest mother****er around would be nice. Generally though it'd really be great to have PvP more worked into the game as so much of the rest of SWTOR seems brilliantly well put together.

[RadehX]

The only people who seem to think I don't know what I'm talking about were the people who did not fully experience Eve. It seems like former Eve-Online players agree with my views for the most part according to the responses here.

 

I get what you're saying, and I kind of agree. I feel the same way, if I don't risk losing anything, I'm just not as motivated or involved. "Oooops, I died...20sec respawn timer, damn." isn't a good enough motivator.

 

But then again, imagine how many crybabies would post here if they lost their full Battlemaster set in a single fight

[Torothin]

PVP is a large term it does not even imply combat ... chess is pvp... some have very different takes on pvp so lets just take his view on pvp and be constructive. I never PVPed on EVE but i can see how this could be fun. I have PVPed in WOW, Rift, Warhammer, DAOC, and all in all there is global, persistant aspect that is missing. DAOC was the closest to that i have played, but still the PVP game could be ignored altogether. The idea i think i get from the OP is that he want a game where even if you are not into the brawl you could actually be PVPing... we could have space combat PVP, we could have PVE race to a boss, we could have intergalactic trading route where PVEers would be protected by PVPers, ...

 

BW boast of story making. They beat others MMO for PVE on that aspect in my eyes... The PVP could use some story... Include PVP into the greater scheme of things.

 

Give us something...anything!

[Ulysseus]

yeah i think this covers the actual trend of what players want out of PVP, but it still opens various avenue other than the over-represented footsoldier battlefield.

 

I am a personnal fan of the space combat mini-game and i would be glad if it was incorporated into the rest of the game more seemlessly with space quests interspaced in the class quest. PVP space mission would be a nice addition too. It could meet your experience with EVE pvp there.

[Tenthletter]

For me I'd love this game to implement something similar to Planetside. Multiple factions controlling maps etc. Unfortunately, by the time I heard about DAoC it was far too late, so I was never able to experience the RvR heyday. Very disappointed about that.

 

The best bet in the future looks to be GW2. ArenaNet has always designed their games and expansions from the group up with PVP in mind, and that's the key. DAoC from what I understand did the same thing. Don't get me wrong, GW was not perfect, but it was elegant, and one of the only games I've seen to really get melee right.

 

The real problem with this game, and every other AAA MMO of late, is they've designed PVE games and then tried to make PVP fit instead of doing things the other way around. GW and DAoC got it right, and hopefully GW2 will as well. We'll see.

[SWImara]

Good post. I am not expecting a full-blown eve. But certain aspects could be implemented without any overhaul to game mechanics to improve the state of PvP in this game.

You're right, and I would love to see some of those aspects implemented. Honestly I think its a distinct possibility. The changes to Ilum, bracketed PvP, ability delay and other similar fixes within a month of the game opening are a big deal to me. I've been through a long string of MMOs (some of them even PvP focused) where the PvP crowd's desires were ignored for months or years post release.

 

MMO forums are right up there with the YouTube comment area in their ability to house all of the dregs of society, but if one takes a reasoned look at things and ignores the forum garbage we've gotten some pretty prompt fixes to problems so far. This is a really good sign imo and suggests that those of us PvPers sticking around might have some influence in the long term, not just in making SWTOR PvP more enjoyable, but in making newer MMOs recognize that consequences in PvP can be fun.

Edited January 26, 2012 by SWImara

[Ravenolf]

This game was never intended or marketed to be PVP centric.

 

/end thread

[RadehX]

This game was never intended or marketed to be PVP centric.

 

/end thread

 

95% of MMOs aren't

 

Doesn't mean they're bad games, they're just not PVP focused. A lot of people here seem to ask something of the game it was never intended to be. However, I do believe BW is one of the better developers and will at least listen to the wishes of the player base. Take the ability delay for example. But like with any MMO, it takes time. Eve for example had horrible lag for years during larger fights...and the player base complained. In the end, they fixed it for the most part...but it took time, and it will take time with SWTOR too. If you think you can buy an MMO and it's going to be perfect from the start, you're delusional. Hell, I love EVE, but even I admit it took months/years to fix some of the issues.

 

PS: If you take a boring point and click class no wonder people are bored by the way. All you read on these forums is "who makes the most DPS". As if that's the core quality in PVP

Edited January 26, 2012 by RadehX

[Torothin]

You're right, and I would love to see some of those aspects implemented. Honestly I think its a distinct possibility. The changes to Ilum, bracketed PvP, ability delay and other similar fixes within a month of the game opening are a big deal to me. I've been through a long string of MMOs (some of them even PvP focused) where the PvP crowd's desires were ignored for months or years post release.

 

MMO forums are right up there with the YouTube comment area in their ability to house all of the dregs of society, but if one takes a reasoned look at things and ignores the forum garbage we've gotten some pretty prompt fixes to problems so far. This is a really good sign imo and suggests that those of us PvPers sticking around might have some influence in the long term, not just in making SWTOR PvP more enjoyable, but in making newer MMOs recognize that consequences in PvP can be fun.

 

Correct. I feel that BW realizes that there is other competition out there and they need to make changes quickly in order to keep players subbing. i think it's a big deal that they are fixing ilum, nerfing the op, bracket wz, and other changes so quickly. That's why I stated that I am going to give this game 6 months. That is a long enough time to get a good idea as to where this game will be heading.