Anyone else think SWToR is too easy and more of the same?

[big_aug]

Here's my supporting arguments:

 

Is anyone else tired of these games being driven by meaningless, easy quests? I'm tired of just collecting every quest in a region and going out and doing some random crap that in no way has an impact on the game world. I recall requiring the help of quite a few other people to do epic quests in Everquest, and there were many different steps a long the way.

 

Beyond that, the leveling is ridiculously easy and fast.

 

This isn't just SWTOR. It's bascially every game in the genre since WoW was released. I played wow for a while pre-burning Crusade. I had one lvl 60 and did some raiding in Molten Core. It was ok, but it never really did it for me.

 

Does anyone else want to go back to the Everquest style of grinding mobs in groups? Death penalities that were actually penalties? Does anyone actually want it to take a while to level up your character EVEN if you put in a ton of time? I feel like reaching max level is a given in these games. It felt like a serious accomplishment in prior games. Sure, it got way easier the longer you played, but your first couple of characters took some work.

 

We are just "grinding" quests anyway... I'd rather grind mobs with groups of other people. You actually got to know people on your server who weren't in your guild. You'd run into the same players night after night as because you were the same level and you had happened to choose the same zone to level as them. You'd camp out there so you could just log back in and start looking for a group. You couldn't just instantly transport to the main hub of the world and transport to the dungeons with a group.

 

The services of other players were actually useful. Anyone remember that? Paying people for a teleport or paying someone to drag your corpse or help you clear a path? Getting someone to rez you? All the nice folks who'd go out of there way and do it for free even though there were "standard" or accpeted amounts that people paid.

 

 

Anyone else tired of the lack of Commnunity/Communication while you are PLAYING THE GAME? I mean, I've done flashpoints, heroics, and standard quests where I've invited someone in the same area as me competing for spawns/items and there was NO INTERACTION at all. You try to interact, and some people do, but many do not. This just wouldn't work in previous games I've played. You actually have to work together just to level up. It wasn't just the "endgame" raids that required grouping/cooperation. You couldn't get away with not interacting with people at all.

 

Pulling was actually a skill? Anyone remember that?

 

I feel like you could do EVERYTHING a game like SWToR has to offer in less than month. I don't feel like that would have been possible with a game like Everquest no matter how hardcore you played it. I haven't done any raiding in this game simply becuase it got kind of boring after doing some of the HM Flashpoints. Getting gear was so easy wihtout raiding that it just seemed pointless anyway. The gear or items don't have that "wow" factor anymore. Flowing Black Silk Sash anyone? Fighting Batons? Cane of the Tranquil? All those cool items back in EQ/Kunark that I can't even remember anymore that just made you go "wow" when you inspected someone.

 

Is anyone else tired of bind on pickup/bind on equip loot/gear? I'm so sick of EVERYTHING being BoE or BoP. Sure, other games had some of this stuff too, but now it's EVERY SINGLE ITEM.

 

It feels like now it's just "the Epic drop from X mob in Y dungeon that is BiS."

 

 

I just felt like complaining. Some of it's nostalgia I'm sure, but a lot of it isn't. I almost reinstalled Everquest, but I just don't feel like doing the Elves and Wizards stuff anymore. I'd install and playt it right now if it weren't for that.

 

 

TLDR - I'm complaining about things in general. I knew SWToR was this way when I came in, but it just makes me realize I'm tired of what these games have become. I'll still play and enjoy it for what it is but I can hope.

 

Pointless, unorganized thoughts. I was just bored. On a work trip with nothing but limited internet.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Paralassa
discussing moderation

[BadgeredMushroom]

Here's my supporting arguments:

 

Is anyone else tired of these games being driven by meaningless, easy quests? I'm tired of just collecting every quest in a region and going out and doing some random crap that in no way has an impact on the game world. I recall requiring the help of quite a few other people to do epic quests in Everquest, and there were many different steps a long the way.

 

Beyond that, the leveling is ridiculously easy and fast.

 

This isn't just SWTOR. It's bascially every game in the genre since WoW was released. I played wow for a while pre-burning Crusade. I had one lvl 60 and did some raiding in Molten Core. It was ok, but it never really did it for me.

 

Does anyone else want to go back to the Everquest style of grinding mobs in groups? Death penalities that were actually penalties? Does anyone actually want it to take a while to level up your character EVEN if you put in a ton of time? I feel like reaching max level is a given in these games. It felt like a serious accomplishment in prior games. Sure, it got way easier the longer you played, but your first couple of characters took some work.

 

We are just "grinding" quests anyway... I'd rather grind mobs with groups of other people. You actually got to know people on your server who weren't in your guild. You'd run into the same players night after night as because you were the same level and you had happened to choose the same zone to level as them. You'd camp out there so you could just log back in and start looking for a group. You couldn't just instantly transport to the main hub of the world and transport to the dungeons with a group.

 

The services of other players were actually useful. Anyone remember that? Paying people for a teleport or paying someone to drag your corpse or help you clear a path? Getting someone to rez you? All the nice folks who'd go out of there way and do it for free even though there were "standard" or accpeted amounts that people paid.

 

 

Anyone else tired of the lack of Commnunity/Communication while you are PLAYING THE GAME? I mean, I've done flashpoints, heroics, and standard quests where I've invited someone in the same area as me competing for spawns/items and there was NO INTERACTION at all. You try to interact, and some people do, but many do not. This just wouldn't work in previous games I've played. You actually have to work together just to level up. It wasn't just the "endgame" raids that required grouping/cooperation. You couldn't get away with not interacting with people at all.

 

Pulling was actually a skill? Anyone remember that?

 

I feel like you could do EVERYTHING a game like SWToR has to offer in less than month. I don't feel like that would have been possible with a game like Everquest no matter how hardcore you played it. I haven't done any raiding in this game simply becuase it got kind of boring after doing some of the HM Flashpoints. Getting gear was so easy wihtout raiding that it just seemed pointless anyway. The gear or items don't have that "wow" factor anymore. Flowing Black Silk Sash anyone? Fighting Batons? Cane of the Tranquil? All those cool items back in EQ/Kunark that I can't even remember anymore that just made you go "wow" when you inspected someone.

 

Is anyone else tired of bind on pickup/bind on equip loot/gear? I'm so sick of EVERYTHING being BoE or BoP. Sure, other games had some of this stuff too, but now it's EVERY SINGLE ITEM.

 

It feels like now it's just "the Epic drop from X mob in Y dungeon that is BiS."

 

 

I just felt like complaining. Some of it's nostalgia I'm sure, but a lot of it isn't. I almost reinstalled Everquest, but I just don't feel like doing the Elves and Wizards stuff anymore. I'd install and playt it right now if it weren't for that.

 

 

TLDR - I'm complaining about things in general. I knew SWToR was this way when I came in, but it just makes me realize I'm tired of what these games have become. I'll still play and enjoy it for what it is but I can hope.

 

Pointless, unorganized thoughts. I was just bored. On a work trip with nothing but limited internet.

 

In my signature is my long rant on why this game disappoints me. Have a read if you feel so inclined.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Paralassa
quote

[truedark]

So you would rather repeat the same **** over and over for a year just so you can do some raids?

[big_aug]

So you would rather repeat the same **** over and over for a year just so you can do some raids?

 

That's exaclty what I'm doing in SWToR, just in a shorter time frame. And it goes like this "I'm repeating the same thing over and over just so I can..." And there isn't anything to finish that sentence with.

 

At least there were various options for mobs I could camp for items I wanted to get. There was a real economy because everything wasn't BoP or BoE. You could farm money so you could buy useful things for your alts.

 

You could get keyed for all the later raids and stuff. Beyond that, isn't it about the fun you have on the way to max level? Isn't that what everyone always says? I had a lot more fun leveling up in the "grind in groups" games than I did in this game?

 

Sure the story was entertaining, but it took me like 5 days played to get completely through the entire thing. 7 days played and I'm in basically full Tier 2 PvP gear.

 

Don't give me the "YOU ARE HARDCORE. YOU LEVEL TO FAST. YOU GET WHAT DESERVE!"

 

7 days played is 7 days played whether its over a month or 3 months. 7 days played is NOTHING. I could probably be fully PvE geared in another day or so of play time if I joined a raiding guild..

 

I mean... come on.

[duritz]

Here's my supporting arguments:

 

Is anyone else tired of these games being driven by meaningless, easy quests? I'm tired of just collecting every quest in a region and going out and doing some random crap that in no way has an impact on the game world. I recall requiring the help of quite a few other people to do epic quests in Everquest, and there were many different steps a long the way.

 

Beyond that, the leveling is ridiculously easy and fast.

 

This isn't just SWTOR. It's bascially every game in the genre since WoW was released. I played wow for a while pre-burning Crusade. I had one lvl 60 and did some raiding in Molten Core. It was ok, but it never really did it for me.

 

Does anyone else want to go back to the Everquest style of grinding mobs in groups? Death penalities that were actually penalties? Does anyone actually want it to take a while to level up your character EVEN if you put in a ton of time? I feel like reaching max level is a given in these games. It felt like a serious accomplishment in prior games. Sure, it got way easier the longer you played, but your first couple of characters took some work.

 

We are just "grinding" quests anyway... I'd rather grind mobs with groups of other people. You actually got to know people on your server who weren't in your guild. You'd run into the same players night after night as because you were the same level and you had happened to choose the same zone to level as them. You'd camp out there so you could just log back in and start looking for a group. You couldn't just instantly transport to the main hub of the world and transport to the dungeons with a group.

 

The services of other players were actually useful. Anyone remember that? Paying people for a teleport or paying someone to drag your corpse or help you clear a path? Getting someone to rez you? All the nice folks who'd go out of there way and do it for free even though there were "standard" or accpeted amounts that people paid.

 

 

Anyone else tired of the lack of Commnunity/Communication while you are PLAYING THE GAME? I mean, I've done flashpoints, heroics, and standard quests where I've invited someone in the same area as me competing for spawns/items and there was NO INTERACTION at all. You try to interact, and some people do, but many do not. This just wouldn't work in previous games I've played. You actually have to work together just to level up. It wasn't just the "endgame" raids that required grouping/cooperation. You couldn't get away with not interacting with people at all.

 

Pulling was actually a skill? Anyone remember that?

 

I feel like you could do EVERYTHING a game like SWToR has to offer in less than month. I don't feel like that would have been possible with a game like Everquest no matter how hardcore you played it. I haven't done any raiding in this game simply becuase it got kind of boring after doing some of the HM Flashpoints. Getting gear was so easy wihtout raiding that it just seemed pointless anyway. The gear or items don't have that "wow" factor anymore. Flowing Black Silk Sash anyone? Fighting Batons? Cane of the Tranquil? All those cool items back in EQ/Kunark that I can't even remember anymore that just made you go "wow" when you inspected someone.

 

Is anyone else tired of bind on pickup/bind on equip loot/gear? I'm so sick of EVERYTHING being BoE or BoP. Sure, other games had some of this stuff too, but now it's EVERY SINGLE ITEM.

 

It feels like now it's just "the Epic drop from X mob in Y dungeon that is BiS."

 

 

I just felt like complaining. Some of it's nostalgia I'm sure, but a lot of it isn't. I almost reinstalled Everquest, but I just don't feel like doing the Elves and Wizards stuff anymore. I'd install and playt it right now if it weren't for that.

 

 

TLDR - I'm complaining about things in general. I knew SWToR was this way when I came in, but it just makes me realize I'm tired of what these games have become. I'll still play and enjoy it for what it is but I can hope.

 

Pointless, unorganized thoughts. I was just bored. On a work trip with nothing but limited internet.

 

some good points. everquest is a good game to look at for guidelines in all seriousness. they even could hook people on harvesting nodes for hours by simply putting in rare harvest drops. you could then sell these rare harvest for large amounts of money because well, they were rare and people needed them to make certain items.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Paralassa
quote

[big_aug]

And don't get me wrong, I didn't intend to come of so completley negatively toward SWTOR. It's the only way to keep my thread open though. I enjoy some aspects of the game. I'm playing through the story of an alt, but I just no there is nothing once the story is over.

 

They really needed to make certain stages of the story requiring some serious teamwork. The stories should have been woven into each other at various points. They should have given folks the option to take these routes woven into each other (which would be group things and way more difficult and requiring more steps and such). If they took the option, they could get something that you don't get for doing it solo.

 

You know, something like that. Tie it all together. Make it more than a Solo game with multiplayer functionality.

 

 

 

Edit: I'm not correcting the various typos. Feel free to criticize my spelling and grammar mistakes. It would take more effort to fix than type this. This applies to my original post as well.

Edited January 26, 2012 by big_aug

[Gun-ho-Gun]

So you would rather repeat the same **** over and over for a year just so you can do some raids?

 

If your ultimate target in playing mmo is to raid. Why not just skip the super easy grinding part? Make leveling as challenging as raid and required a group.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Gun-ho-Gun

[Rensel]

Yep, way too easy. AOE'ing through instances at 3 levels lower than "standard" and /sleep through it. I have yet to see an instance that was challenging.

 

Yes, I miss the pulling, corner pulls, CC'ing and mezzing.

 

The problem is , when I advertise in /lfg ( oh wait, we don't have an LFG channel, I need to wait in fleet and get bored to death instead of questing while waiting for someone to hopefully reply ) something like : LFM Athiss level 17 max.

 

When I advertise that, people immediately PST me, they say "Athiss is level 21 man, you're too low". I tell them they're noobs and should learn to play instead.

 

Then, when I eventually find some lewtwhores who want to run Athiss at 17 ( or Hammer at 13 , or Mandalorians at 21, etc ) then when the tank who obviously is a noob too, pulls 3 groups in one go coz he never figured out the patrol mob linked 2 groups in the back, we wipe and immediately 2 people leave "I don't have time for this..."

 

People are impatient, they don't want the challenge, just free loot.

 

I miss the challenge, I couldn't care a rats a.. about loot.

[big_aug]

Yep, way too easy. AOE'ing through instances at 3 levels lower than "standard" and /sleep through it. I have yet to see an instance that was challenging.

 

Yes, I miss the pulling, corner pulls, CC'ing and mezzing.

 

The problem is , when I advertise in /lfg ( oh wait, we don't have an LFG channel, I need to wait in fleet and get bored to death instead of questing while waiting for someone to hopefully reply ) something like : LFM Athiss level 17 max.

 

When I advertise that, people immediately PST me, they say "Athiss is level 21 man, you're too low". I tell them they're noobs and should learn to play instead.

 

Then, when I eventually find some lewtwhores who want to run Athiss at 17 ( or Hammer at 13 , or Mandalorians at 21, etc ) then when the tank who obviously is a noob too, pulls 3 groups in one go coz he never figured out the patrol mob linked 2 groups in the back, we wipe and immediately 2 people leave "I don't have time for this..."

 

People are impatient, they don't want the challenge, just free loot.

 

I miss the challenge, I couldn't care a rats a.. about loot.

 

Yea man.

 

I broke a few keyboards bck in the day dieing multiple times and losing levels and stuff. I'd get frustrated as hell sometimes. But then you get that perfect group and you breeze through entire levels and it's just a blast the whole time.

 

I've used death in SWTOR as a strategy to kill groups of mobs that I shouldn't be able to solo...

 

*** is that?

[Barracudastr]

I do wish mmo's were actually hard like they were back in the day. You know when you spent hours upon hours wiping trying figure out how to get through a difficult area even if you were grouped up.

 

I miss the risk that used to be in mmo's.... no dieing is meh. Theres no punishment, you dont lose exp or levels you dont lose gear... dieing is just oh opps owell try again and get it.

 

Just how the genre is now I guess.

 

Least swtor isn't as easy as WoW or other mmo's out right now I guess...*shurg*

[imtrick]

I'm waiting for all the "games aren't supposed to be work" posts... but I agree. To an extent, anyway. There were times when the frustration of EQ would really get to me, and to be honest, what finally got me to say "Screw it. I'm done losing levels. I quit!"

 

However, I do miss the level of difficulty, though I might crank it down just a notch in places so the game wasn't completely unsoloable. I miss people recognizing I was a good player, instead of just noticing I don't screw up a lot. I miss leveling actually being a game in itself, rather that a means to an end.

 

That said, I think some of these are addressed bu TOR. Sure, I think it's way too easy most of the time, but the part about making leveling something that wasn't just a stepping stone? I think they've done a great job of that -- but I also agree it goes far too fast.

[justamemory]

welcome to the Lowest Common Denominator Online, the terminal future of MMOs.

 

what we essentially have now is the MSG of gaming.

 

mental obesity feelsgoodman.

[Arinvald]

Any mmo where I can reach max level on two characters within five weeks is rediculously easy in my book and once I max out those two characters my interest starts to wane greatly. Was a great ride for a month but now I just can't get motivated to play.

[Dharst]

I get tired of FedEx quests, but that's the nature of beast.

 

I am disappointed in how easy it is to level. Wishing someone would create a game that even a die hard player going 24/7 would still have to remain awake a full 30 days to hit cap.

 

Wow Vanilla... it took me 4 months to reach cap putting in 3-4 hours a day and more on weekends.

 

If BW had adopted a longer path to cap... there'd have been more time to work out the bugs (theoretically) as people leveled. They'd've had a finite bracket to fix. As it is they have population in all levels- and of course as they favor Illum (level 50)... the rest who are still leveling are getting screwed. When they move to lesser content... it'll be the end-gamers who are getting screwed, etc.

 

Content is definitely there. Doing 90% of the quests/heroics on Taris (Level 16-20)... no flashpoints, pvp, space combat, or significant rest xp... and I'm level 23 before I even get to Nar Shaada (level 20-24). If every planet is like that... a slower progression could have easily been supported

[Red_Cruiser]

I was really disappointed that the high level flashpoints weren't like the Heroic 4 quests. And yes, the game is more of the same. People don't really play MMORPGs for the story. It doesn't necessarily hurt, but it feels like too much was sacrificed on it's behalf.

[Asuka]

If you want a grind there are plenty of Korean games out there which put any western attempt at a grind to shame.

[Kryp-Tyk]

First of all, totally agree with your post and many of the replies here, EQ1 was the best MMORPG i've played and its tied with AC1 for best PVP MMORPG in my mind.

 

Secondly, it seems like alot of modern MMO's are missing key elements which really added to the experience in these games. Just off the top of my head, some of these elements were:

 

-Death Penalties: Having severe consequences for death actually impacted how you played and made you a better player for it.

 

-No Radar / Map: Every modern game has these and i think they take away a lot more form the experience than people realize. Hear me out on this one, in EQ1 you actually had to know your way around. Getting lost was a legitimate issue and it actually forced you to talk to other players to ask for directions. On the PVP servers it meant you could actually LOS people behind rocks or the land and you had skills like turning yourself into a Tree or Chair

 

-Factions: Killing almost everything had an actual impact/consequence and you could change how npc's in towns and even dungeons regarded you by improving your faction standing with them

 

-Non-linear storylines / advancement paths: Having multiple zones/areas/ways to advance added a lot of replay value and as mentioned in this thread

 

-Open PVP: Being able to have meaningful PVP (with full looting and corpse camping ability) that impacted the actual politics in the game, dictating what dungeons, areas, and even towns you could and could not visit

 

I suppose the gist of these things is that your actions could do two things that I feel are the actual point of playing an MMORPG vs just a regular RPG:

1. Impact and shape the world you played in

2. Impact other players (for better or worse)

[Projester]

I thought your topic was too easy and more of the same tbh.

[justamemory]

welfare leveling and grind-stamps are good for gleaning subscriptions I guess.

[krinaman]

No.....

[samht]

you guys could just remove some gear, or do instances that are way above your level to give yourself a challenge.

 

What your saying is like: don't you guys miss the day that there was no INTERNET. Back then we had to use imagination to kill dragons, and it was actually hard to get enough people to start a blank.

 

oh ya, Noooooooooooooo.

 

Stop being the back in my day.

[Kryp-Tyk]

you guys could just remove some gear, or do instances that are way above your level to give yourself a challenge.

 

What your saying is like: don't you guys miss the day that there was no INTERNET. Back then we had to use imagination to kill dragons, and it was actually hard to get enough people to start a blank.

 

oh ya, Noooooooooooooo.

 

Stop being the back in my day.

 

its not about just having a challenge, its about doing stuff that actually matters...

 

as it stands nothing you do in the game really impacts the world or other players (even on PVP servers which is ridiculous)

 

there is no need for an in-game community, no player politics, etc...the whole FP, WZ, instanced structure makes it more like a single player game with a co-op option rather than an mmorpg

[Benagain]

I like it just the way it is. Yes it makes playing easier and quicker for us casuals. Your argument is familiar, and your not alone in your point of view. I really think this type of game caters more to my gaming type (casual solo play with some light group action when desired).

[Githadys]

Here's my supporting arguments:

 

Is anyone else tired of these games being driven by meaningless, easy quests? I'm tired of just collecting every quest in a region and going out and doing some random crap that in no way has an impact on the game world. I recall requiring the help of quite a few other people to do epic quests in Everquest, and there were many different steps a long the way.

 

Beyond that, the leveling is ridiculously easy and fast.

 

This isn't just SWTOR. It's bascially every game in the genre since WoW was released. I played wow for a while pre-burning Crusade. I had one lvl 60 and did some raiding in Molten Core. It was ok, but it never really did it for me.

 

Does anyone else want to go back to the Everquest style of grinding mobs in groups? Death penalities that were actually penalties? Does anyone actually want it to take a while to level up your character EVEN if you put in a ton of time? I feel like reaching max level is a given in these games. It felt like a serious accomplishment in prior games. Sure, it got way easier the longer you played, but your first couple of characters took some work.

 

We are just "grinding" quests anyway... I'd rather grind mobs with groups of other people. You actually got to know people on your server who weren't in your guild. You'd run into the same players night after night as because you were the same level and you had happened to choose the same zone to level as them. You'd camp out there so you could just log back in and start looking for a group. You couldn't just instantly transport to the main hub of the world and transport to the dungeons with a group.

 

The services of other players were actually useful. Anyone remember that? Paying people for a teleport or paying someone to drag your corpse or help you clear a path? Getting someone to rez you? All the nice folks who'd go out of there way and do it for free even though there were "standard" or accpeted amounts that people paid.

 

 

Anyone else tired of the lack of Commnunity/Communication while you are PLAYING THE GAME? I mean, I've done flashpoints, heroics, and standard quests where I've invited someone in the same area as me competing for spawns/items and there was NO INTERACTION at all. You try to interact, and some people do, but many do not. This just wouldn't work in previous games I've played. You actually have to work together just to level up. It wasn't just the "endgame" raids that required grouping/cooperation. You couldn't get away with not interacting with people at all.

 

Pulling was actually a skill? Anyone remember that?

 

I feel like you could do EVERYTHING a game like SWToR has to offer in less than month. I don't feel like that would have been possible with a game like Everquest no matter how hardcore you played it. I haven't done any raiding in this game simply becuase it got kind of boring after doing some of the HM Flashpoints. Getting gear was so easy wihtout raiding that it just seemed pointless anyway. The gear or items don't have that "wow" factor anymore. Flowing Black Silk Sash anyone? Fighting Batons? Cane of the Tranquil? All those cool items back in EQ/Kunark that I can't even remember anymore that just made you go "wow" when you inspected someone.

 

Is anyone else tired of bind on pickup/bind on equip loot/gear? I'm so sick of EVERYTHING being BoE or BoP. Sure, other games had some of this stuff too, but now it's EVERY SINGLE ITEM.

 

It feels like now it's just "the Epic drop from X mob in Y dungeon that is BiS."

 

 

I just felt like complaining. Some of it's nostalgia I'm sure, but a lot of it isn't. I almost reinstalled Everquest, but I just don't feel like doing the Elves and Wizards stuff anymore. I'd install and playt it right now if it weren't for that.

 

 

TLDR - I'm complaining about things in general. I knew SWToR was this way when I came in, but it just makes me realize I'm tired of what these games have become. I'll still play and enjoy it for what it is but I can hope.

 

Pointless, unorganized thoughts. I was just bored. On a work trip with nothing but limited internet.

 

Have you posted your ideas or thoughts on the Suggestion forum? you have alot of ideas and concerns from what I read. but maybe it would better to have your ideas and thoughts there also, so that maybe the Dev's can get a look for what you are trying to say.

[GalynnRHAN]

i don't really think it is too easy. It's more that it's solo friendly. I for one love this type of play,because I don't have to rely on the fact of whether or not I can get a group together just to progress through the game. I like grouping when I want to not grouping just to feel like the the game is a challenge or hard. If want a hard game that is a test of skill rather than excuse to group or brag on my uber armor I'll play Dark Souls.