Tracer missle is balanced. Also other things ppl need to stop crying about! Read!

[OatsRawr]

Just thought id clip this bit out.

 

3k crits, which are consistent since its dead easy to stack crit/surge in this game, 500 expertise also doesn't matter since expertise damage increase caps at 10% (and why some people are opting to swap some armor parts out for PvE parts to increase there damage beyond what they would aquire from having PvP armor only)

 

3k crits on ability with a 1.5 sec induction time with no cooldown vs an ability that requires certain conditions to be in effect to use (railshot) and one that requires a stack up to do extra damage (heatseaker)

 

And you are telling me and everyone else, that 500 damage difference (between railshot and tracer with railshot having a cooldown and a requirement to usage) is enough to call it balanced?

 

Delusional.

 

oh no you are missing the beauty of it. Rail shot is instant, meaning you can hit a tracer and since global cd is 1.5 sec, you can immediately railshot. In case you missed it again, that means the 3000 crit from tracer + the 3500 rail shot = 6500 damage instantly. SO like i said, tracer isn't the problem, its the instant abilities you can use in conjunction with them. It gets even better with Heatseeker at 5k crits instantly after a 3k crit tracer for 8k damage.

 

Did i say anything was balanced or unbalanced? no. you assumed that. Will we get a nerf? probably. But if they nerf tracer it will be LOL because even if they limited it to 2k crits or 1500 crits, rail shot and heatseeker instants are going to bump those 1.5 second cast tracers to 5-7k hits. Not to mention unload with the proc will still do giant amounts of damage through its cycle.

 

If anything you should laugh at tracer spammers because all they are doing is hurting their own dps and overheating while someone can simply run away from them, line of sight them, or cc them.

 

So like i said, tracer isn't the problem, its the other skills that tracer allows you to do.

[NJoyTheSilence]

yeah sure, I can carry a ball like that when my resolve is full and I use all my cds. 10sec on tankiness every 3min! yay! Even better with a healer behind. Mobility wise? Hell yeah but it has nothing to do with mitigation...

 

 

 

If you had any idea of what you are talking about, you would know that a healer + guard is extremly powerful but it has nothing NOTHING to do tank's mitigation... Your 6 people are just mindlessly wacking at the healer while the tank is behind taunting like a madman with guard up...

I guess taking 5 sec to focus fire on the tank and cc the healer is too hard even with 6 people!

 

...And if they attacked the tank, the healer would keep him up. This is a group game, a solo tank is useless. A tank's utility is where he shines. Your cooldowns are plenty enough, and if cycled provide decent mitigation. If you think a hybrid dps/tank dies faster than a squishy then I cannot help you. You seem to be tunnel visioning, while I am talking broad spectrum.

Edited January 24, 2012 by NJoyTheSilence

[Rotm]

Mercs give the group nothing but spike damage on controlled targets and only then when they are free from pressure. A lot of other classes can do the same without the mercs disadvantages. Even in 1vs1 situations a jedi knight, sorc, vanguard etc can completely lock out tracer for 10-15-20 sec+

 

Elemental shamans worked similarly in wow vanilla and BC with high spike damage on 1.5 sec cast nukes. That class was very powerful in warzones and open world pvp but it failed hard in organized group vs group because the class was largely useless when focus fired. Even then Shamans had more utility then a merc imo with spammable interrupt, snare, purge plus it didn't suffer the tor merc fast resource depletion and had a much better heal. Tor merc is just overplayed and has a low skill floor.

[Niquity]

how about we do nothing to Shoot First since its all we have. no utility and no defense but too much damage? how about we focus on the other "i win" classes? i dont see Ops hopping ledges or bursting through burners to score points all by themselves not to mention snaring people every 4 seconds and/or rooting them on knockback or leap (which interrupts too) or maybe interrupting people with their pure interrupt

 

Yeah i agree Ops/Scound were lame not fun to fight with and easy to kite, sorc are most fun imo. most fun class in a let down game lol

 

but you guy sure to make Troopers sound like fun maybe ill roll 1 of them i already got a 50 scound and sorc

Edited January 24, 2012 by Niquity

[buttski]

we all know that arsenal mercs and gunnery comms have the highest skillcap:

 

Edited January 24, 2012 by buttski

[Revanmug]

..., And if they attacked the tank, the healer would keep him up. This is a group game, a solo tank is useless. A tank's utility is where he shines. Your cooldowns are plenty enough, and if cycled provide decent mitigation. If you think a hybrid dps/tank dies faster than a squishy then I cannot help you. You seem to be tunnel visioning, while I am talking broad spectrum.,

 

I think we call that IRONY.

You have 6 people in your exemple... CC a healer for 4-5 sec must be hard! Very LARGE and BROAD vision you have there! Fail pvper is fail...

 

 

Also tank utility... It has nothing to do with mitigation! You change subject constantly when I correct you on 1 point... Tank mitgation is horrible. I haven't talk about the rest. Guard is all that make a tank spec usable in pvp so great it is! Still, doesn't change the fact that a tank is squishy as hell...

Edited January 24, 2012 by Revanmug

[Rotm]

oh no you are missing the beauty of it. Rail shot is instant, meaning you can hit a tracer and since global cd is 1.5 sec, you can immediately railshot. In case you missed it again, that means the 3000 crit from tracer + the 3500 rail shot = 6500 damage instantly. SO like i said, tracer isn't the problem, its the instant abilities you can use in conjunction with them. It gets even better with Heatseeker at 5k crits instantly after a 3k crit tracer for 8k damage.

 

Did i say anything was balanced or unbalanced? no. you assumed that. Will we get a nerf? probably. But if they nerf tracer it will be LOL because even if they limited it to 2k crits or 1500 crits, rail shot and heatseeker instants are going to bump those 1.5 second cast tracers to 5-7k hits. Not to mention unload with the proc will still do giant amounts of damage through its cycle.

 

If anything you should laugh at tracer spammers because all they are doing is hurting their own dps and overheating while someone can simply run away from them, line of sight them, or cc them.

 

So like i said, tracer isn't the problem, its the other skills that tracer allows you to do.

 

Arsenal isn't even the spike spec. Pyro can land Thermal Detonator, Power Shot, and Rail Shot all at the same instant with the potential to do even more with a CGC proc. Tracer is just easy to use and so its over used.

[Machazareel]

Arsenal isn't even the spike spec. Pyro can land Thermal Detonator, Power Shot, and Rail Shot all at the same instant with the potential to do even more with a CGC proc. Tracer is just easy to use and so its over used.

 

I just switched to Pyro today, actually. It's glorious. IMO much more dangerous than Arsenal. And the real kicker, I can now kite all those melee that used to swarm me much more easily while I LoS ranged and whittle everyone down.

[Spootybeaver]

Great post NJoyTheSilence.

I agree, people should focus on good tactics in PvP.

If you are truly good at knowing how to PvP, then this game is more than balanced.

A good PvPer can roll any class and still be good in this game. Frankly, I think that speaks volumes as to how good this game really is (ability lag aside )

[Dominemesis]

I would like to start this post by saying that I am sentinel who has had terrible luck with the rng loot bags. I am not a lucky one who is rank 30 and full champ. I would like to take a few moments to go over a few things to hopefully stop the crying that will eventually ruin this game. Crying leads to rollercoaster balance and terrible gameplay.

 

1) Tracer missle/Grav Round - These abilities are 100 percent ok. Every class other than the commando or hunter using them has interrupts and multiple cc's to stop these abilities from being casted. Commandos/bh are by design immobile in that spec, and have little utility to help get away when someone attacks them. If they are turret moding and blowing you up... That is what they were intended to do. You cannot be a baddie pug and willy nilly around the map scoreboard hero like. If you are doing this YOU are the bad one hurting your team. YOU are the one who is the problem, not the commando/bh free casting on you ops group.

 

2) Tanks damage mitigation - I hate to say it, but the tank you see absorbing damage and running the hutball in, are designed to do that. You have the necessary cc at your disposal to stop them from scoring. Again you cannot go willy nilly scoreboard hero like.

 

3) Melee do not suck - The ability lag is to blame for most of melees problems. Until they fix that, we have no way of knowing how melee are and are not.

 

4) Combat Vanish - This skill is working as intended, and is melees escape mechanism. This should be the way it is. Range has plenty ways to escape.

 

Please stop crying about every little thing. Nerfs are a terrible pvp cycle that ruins the game. Please take the time to read this, and flame me if you gotta.

 

Edit: IMO, This game is real closed to balanced. Get a team and stop pugging. Play your class to your strengths, not whine about others strengths.

 

Update:

 

5) gunslingers up: what? They can have CC immunity on a short cooldown. Take less damage in cover and cannot be leapt upon by gap closers. Have nice range. They also can stack abilities kn a target, CC, cast to hit close ti the same time, and 2-3 due to it. My guildie guards nodes and solos people all the time this way. Of course tank give them trouble, cause that's what they do.

 

6) players not realizing that they can improve: Alot of the time you die by putting yourself in a bad position, chosing the wrong battles, wrongful timing of defensive cooldowns, wasting knockbacks just because they are up, not pre kiting, not pre kiting, not pre kiting, and general lack of knowledge about the enemy. Knowing when to get out is half the battle. I know I often get greedy and just stay in a position for to long hoping lady luck is on my side, trying to get that kill. Oops stayed in the enemy line and died to tracer trying to kill a melee.

 

Chasing is also a bad idea. You chase down a target away from the group/node, and find out they are going to own you. Guess what, you are to blame for chasing a good solo class down.

 

7) low valor rank/no weapon/bad luck bags/low expertise players screaming about balance: Come on guys.... stuff seems way more balanced in equal field. Get geared and you will see.

 

 

Good post, I pretty much agree that his game is close to balanced as well, and that nerf nerf cries are bad for the health of a game.

[TheRealBoz]

we all know that arsenal mercs and gunnery comms have the highest skillcap:

 

 

This, again?

You guys need to get a better argument.

[Biboonz]

i love how a sarcastic BH pvp video is now evidence.

 

I guess people will always complain and its true that seing spammers is sometimes annoying because it doesn't require that much work compared to some other classes, i can live with it though as i'm specced in melee interrupts, and its funny to watch how hopeless the bad spammers are ( some non spammers fare a lot better but its how it should be )

 

great post OP. you got my mvp vote. Unfortunately i think you are too smart and using too much logic and comon sense for this forum

[OatsRawr]

Arsenal isn't even the spike spec. Pyro can land Thermal Detonator, Power Shot, and Rail Shot all at the same instant with the potential to do even more with a CGC proc. Tracer is just easy to use and so its over used.

 

Fair enough

[Pulpp]

Original post aside, threads like this are fun. People that actually play geared 50 com/mercs get to read replies, scratch their heads, laugh a bit and say..."seriously...?"

 

Then other people pretend they play the class in the futile attempt to fake support their false, incorrect & just plain silly assertions. Press them for proof or a name/server, they disappear.

 

MMO forums are fun.

[Bullsith]

Lemme get this straight...

 

You are ok with 1-button-friendly classes and you want to keep it that way?

[DkSharktooth]

Pro Tip - QQers make posts, they don't read them.

 

Most of them suck because they don't take time to read about their class or it's abilities.

 

They just want to be like hey I'm level 50, he is also level 50, were equal with different name abilities.

 

Anyone reading this is just a person who supports your idea, QQers just make new posts and get trolled down for being baddies as you described.

[Amonet]

lol Tracer/Grav are NOT ok. Anyone saying otherwise is an obvious BH/Commando hoping they dont get their spec nerfed into the ground like Concealment OP's just did. Fair is Fair. If Concealment OPs got the major nerf hammer thrown at them, BHs/Commandos need to be next. End of Story. Best and most simple fix is to put Tracer/Grav on a cooldown. Id say at least 6-10 seconds. This way they can still put up and maintain their 5 stack of Heat Signature, but will no longer be a one button wonder by spamming it over and over.

[Pulpp]

lol Tracer/Grav are NOT ok. Anyone saying otherwise is an obvious BH/Commando hoping they dont get their spec nerfed into the ground like Concealment OP's just did. Fair is Fair. If Concealment OPs got the major nerf hammer thrown at them, BHs/Commandos need to be next. End of Story. Best and most simple fix is to put Tracer/Grav on a cooldown. Id say at least 6-10 seconds. This way they can still put up and maintain their 5 stack of Heat Signature, but will no longer be a one button wonder by spamming it over and over.

 

You make some very coherant and smart points. Perhaps more importantly, your flawless math and detailed firsthand experience is incredibly hard to argue against. If only more posts were as eloquent and well thought out as yours, then I think all those massively OP'd grav/tracer defenders would stop calling critics "bad players that are utterly clueless and ungeared/pre-50".

 

*cough*Nub*cough*

[Optimism]

This ability will soon be doing as much if not more than hidden strike once 1.1.1 kicks in.

 

My tracer missles are already hitting people for 3k....

 

But I don't blame you for defending this ability. I'd defend a faceroll button too and my new BH. God forbid me pressing another button to kill someone.

[Draethyl]

 

2) Tanks damage mitigation - I hate to say it, but the tank you see absorbing damage and running the hutball in, are designed to do that. You have the necessary cc at your disposal to stop them from scoring. Again you cannot go willy nilly scoreboard hero like.

 

*** when did I start to actually mitigate incomming damage? We don't absorb damage, our shield gen useless against almost every attack and defense yea right...Only damage mitigating skills are helping us and tanks like the sith darkness has very few of those compared to other tanks.

[Pulpp]

This ability will soon be doing as much if not more than hidden strike once 1.1.1 kicks in.

 

My tracer missles are already hitting people for 3k....

 

But I don't blame you for defending this ability. I'd defend a faceroll button too and my new BH. God forbid me pressing another button to kill someone.

 

Funny...

 

I originally intended to play an operative as a healer and hopped on the gravy concealment train.

 

Name/server of the facerolling 50 geared out BH? I am curious. What's funny is you were bashing Mercs pre-op nerf, so I'd love to know what level you got your awesomesauce Merc to so far, if he even exists.

 

Uh huh...

[ReRuined]

I love how #1 and #5 completely contradict each other.

[Dovahbrah]

lol Tracer/Grav are NOT ok. Anyone saying otherwise is an obvious BH/Commando hoping they dont get their spec nerfed into the ground like Concealment OP's just did. Fair is Fair. If Concealment OPs got the major nerf hammer thrown at them, BHs/Commandos need to be next. End of Story. Best and most simple fix is to put Tracer/Grav on a cooldown. Id say at least 6-10 seconds. This way they can still put up and maintain their 5 stack of Heat Signature, but will no longer be a one button wonder by spamming it over and over.

 

Your argument is so strong and eloquent.

 

<- Not even Gunnery spec.

[Biboonz]

k a couple hours ago i had some 1v1s vs a Battlemaster commando on my server as a marauder, maybe 5 to 6 duels , lost only once to him due to a badly timed interrupt and a couple other mistakes on my part. The other times i just destroyed him with some fights leaving me at 60-70%+ hp without having used my big cd and him using his.

battlemaster marauder with only 1 piece BM (+ implants/ear ) and rest champ except for 1.

 

i've seen the same guy destroy others 1v1 or 1v2 , because they didn't even try to interrupt/silence.

 

Sorry but like he said this is a l2p and awareness issue , if you let ANY dps have its way unchecked he's going to kill you and all your mates. whatever the class.

[Daeth]

1) Tracer missle/Grav Round - These abilities are 100 percent ok. Every class other than the commando or hunter using them has interrupts and multiple cc's to stop these abilities from being casted. Commandos/bh are by design immobile in that spec, and have little utility to help get away when someone attacks them. If they are turret moding and blowing you up... That is what they were intended to do. You cannot be a baddie pug and willy nilly around the map scoreboard hero like. If you are doing this YOU are the bad one hurting your team. YOU are the one who is the problem, not the commando/bh free casting on you ops group.