*SPOILERS*Why was Revan and so much in kotor retconned

[jonobiwan]

Where is the flashpoint and what level?

[Fyurii]

Flashpoints are launched from the Republic Fleet. If I recall correctly, it's around lvl30 recommended, and definitely needing a full group.

[Sheyrd]

OP, first of all mid level or high level doesn't matter when you face off with a character in this MMO. This MMO everything is equal with exception to level. It is about the story lines and when you face them during your leveling. I have started one of every class in this game and each character is supposed to be "the one" that changes something in the paradigm that is SWOTR.

 

Just because it is a level system doesn't mean that Revan or whomever else should be elite level 50 or champion level 50. It is when and at the point in the story line they are introduced to the character that makes it relevant.

[angry-broom]

Email response from Drew Karpyshyn:

 

I don't want to spoil too much about Revan in the game, but I'll try to answer your questions. Revan's lines were really just an homage to Darth Malak's quote from KOTOR, though it's easy to imagine he had been a little corrupted after 300 years battling the Emperor's evil.

 

As for Revan's final fate, you never actually see him die. He just sort of disappears, so we left the door open just a little bit in case we want to ever bring him back.

 

A few other quotes like that floating around, as many people have been emailing drew, there was even one where drew thought revans actions in the foundry were more grey than dark LOL

[exiaruin]

been an entertaining thread so far... but one thing unsaid even though there is a lot of "level is irrelevant"....

kotor 1 max level 20 ....

kotor 2 max level 30 ....

events of the old republic: revan ~ rather short in retro spec far as revan's actual part in it

 

so Revan being a mid 30's fp boss is logical from a developers point of view.

[angry-broom]

been an entertaining thread so far... but one thing unsaid even though there is a lot of "level is irrelevant"....

kotor 1 max level 20 ....

kotor 2 max level 30 ....

events of the old republic: revan ~ rather short in retro spec far as revan's actual part in it

 

so Revan being a mid 30's fp boss is logical from a developers point of view.

 

jolee's lightsaber requires level 50, so using that logic jolee was 30 levels higher than revan.

Edited February 4, 2012 by angry-broom

[Ellvaan]

Greetings everyone!

 

We recently had to remove several posts due to them not being in compliance with our Rules of Conducts.

 

While we understand that during this type of discussion, it is easy to engage in real-world moral and religious discussion, due to the volatile nature of those type of discussions, it is not allowed on the forums. Please keep your replies as it relates to the Star Wars™ Universe.

 

Additionally, a quick reminder to please use the available SPOILER tags when sharing something that spoils the story! You can use them like this:

 

[noparse]

(Information here.)

[/noparse]

 

That will give you this:

 

 

(Information here.)

 

Thank you for your understanding!

Edited February 4, 2012 by Ellvaan

[Matais]

looks like the carebears are crying now.

[Deviss]

A few other quotes like that floating around, as many people have been emailing drew, there was even one where drew thought revans actions in the foundry were more grey than dark LOL

 

What? Could you provide link to drew's statement about Revan's actions being more grey and not purely dark. Thanks in advance.

[Valgranth]

What? Could you provide link to drew's statement about Revan's actions being more grey and not purely dark. Thanks in advance.

Quotes or not it seems pretty evident based on Revan's own statements, mastering both sides of the Force, being once Sith and Jedi, etc.

[_Zorth_]

For the last time, You can't be both Sith and Jedi at the same time. Sith and Jedi are two groups that follow two entirely different philosophies, It's like saying you can be a Communist and Capitalist at the same time.

 

There is no such thing as mastering both sides of the force, there are no sides really, There is the dark side and the force. In the movies they never say "Light side".. they say the force and dark side.

 

Sure you can use lightning, kill people and feed of negative emotions.. But then you aren't a light side/normal force - user anymore, You're a dark side user since you use those kinds of powers. You can only understand how both sides work, Something which alot of force users can.. since they've gone down the dark path and come back again.

Edited February 6, 2012 by _Zorth_

[DarthSublimitas]

It's still absurd. It would be the equivalent of 3-4 level 30's in WoW being able to kill Thrall.

 

Exactly. BW just completely made the KOTOR series into a joke and I find it insulting that they would even DARE call this game, "the Old Republic" - it has nothing to do with anything from KOTOR I or II. No lore or anything. It's like lot's of ppl already said, WoW in space and a VERY poor version of it as well.

[EvilTrollGuy]

It's still absurd. It would be the equivalent of 3-4 level 30's in WoW being able to kill Thrall.

 

I just think of it as in the 'game world' the progression isn't the same as with levels. For instance, you might be mid-level, but for the sake of the lore you're some sort of elite force to be reckoned with.

 

Don't take your ingame level too serious when compared to the encounters. You'll just be ***'ing too much.

[DarthSublimitas]

jolee's lightsaber requires level 50, so using that logic jolee was 30 levels higher than revan.

 

Like I said, BW COMPLETELY destroyed the lore with KOTOR. If Jolee was 30 lvls above Revan, then how could he kill him in the scene where Bastilla turns into evil mode on the roof of the Rakata temple??? Makes no sense whatsoever... Should've left it to Obsidian to do the story - hell, should have left it to Obsidian to do the entire game as BW has made a frightful mess of this one...

Edited February 6, 2012 by Meluna
language

[Fyurii]

Like I said, BW COMPLETELY destroyed the lore with KOTOR. If Jolee was 30 lvls above Revan, then how could he kill him in the scene where Bastilla turns into evil mode on the roof of the Rakata temple??? Makes no sense whatsoever... Should've left it to Obsidian to do the story - hell, should have left it to Obsidian to do the entire game as BW has made a frightful mess of this one...

 

Game mechanics do not equal lore and story. Nor do they have an effect on the lore and story, unless they are something that is a part of the story.

XP points, levels, stats, none of this has anything to do with the story and lore of KoTORs 1 & 2, or TOR. They're simply progression mechanics outside of the story so a player can stroke their ego.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Fyurii

[buiaka]

Sure you can use lightning, kill people and feed of negative emotions.. But then you aren't a light side/normal force - user anymore, You're a dark side user since you use those kinds of powers. You can only understand how both sides work, Something which alot of force users can.. since they've gone down the dark path and come back again.

 

Not necessarily. remember, in the books, and as included in the lore, Luke Skywalker uses Force Lightning, however he derived his power for the lightning from the light, not from the dark side.

[meshade]

Compared to WoW, people who actually kill revan are also one of the best in the galaxy at the given time and not some random empire//republic scrubs.

 

The story is there if you skip it - it's your problem.

 

Also I don't think he actually dies, I didn't see any corpse after the battle since he vanishes//teleports at like 5%

[Zoobert]

DarthMoord just shut it no one cares about your arguing points as so many others have said its based off of opinion. and at some point someone said he was "one of the strongest JEDI of his time" not sith as you keep saying but jedi. And when he's fighting the emperor he's doing so as a JEDI so stop comparing him to sith that's his former self not how he is now. And as for you saying Caedus is so pro. not so much is hack job sister cuts his arm off and he continued to fight even at the expense of his injuries and he dies. well now sounds like a great death for a sith lord i mean it took Vader throwing the emperor down a nearly bottomless pit but he loses an arm and then has the stupidity to continue the attack with one arm and unhealed wounds instead of being smart as he has proven himself to be in the past very strong indeed. so in conclusion no one cares its a matter of opinion you may have some facts but not all of them. revan could be capable of so much more then he is now only the creator of revan has an idea of where he will end up. death is immanent in his future but his story has been a good one and many people enjoy it. and if you dont believe revan to be strong then his symbolism that has held followers for centuries and produced darth bane. im seeing that yes he was powerful but in a way the other sith never were and that was that he had charisma and he was an intellectual beyond his years and that my good sir is a strength far greater then raw power in its own. so checkmate and all that other malarky and just cut the crap.

 

WALL.OF.TEXT.

 

This....this is a stronger fanbois than even the OP.

[Matais]

For the last time, You can't be both Sith and Jedi at the same time. Sith and Jedi are two groups that follow two entirely different philosophies, It's like saying you can be a Communist and Capitalist at the same time.

 

There is no such thing as mastering both sides of the force, there are no sides really, There is the dark side and the force. In the movies they never say "Light side".. they say the force and dark side.

 

Sure you can use lightning, kill people and feed of negative emotions.. But then you aren't a light side/normal force - user anymore, You're a dark side user since you use those kinds of powers. You can only understand how both sides work, Something which alot of force users can.. since they've gone down the dark path and come back again.

 

Lucas lost his credibility a long time ago.

 

He can't write and nothing he says should be taken seriously. Its like being the king of france but being a complete and utter impotent cretin who can't do the job they are assigned properly.

 

The films weren't works of art either. Some EU writers were and still are better than Lucas. Timothy Zahn for example is much more credible than lucas.

[tadro]

ok first of all forget everything about lvls

Levels mean **** when it comes to story.When i played the Foundry I didnt care about the level.Levels are game mechanics NOTHING more.

 

Remember KOTOR 1?You are Revan but you begin the game from lvl 1

In terms of story the 4 heroes who beat Revan are bad mofos.Maybe your TOR character is a nobody to you but mine isnt.

So if they changed the lvl requirement for the Foundry the story would become better???

 

The story is great as it is.And the novel's story is great as well.Trust me when I say that I was really sceptical about Revan's appearance in SWTOR and the Revan novel until I had a first hand experience with the game and the book.

 

Those who wanted Revan to be an eternal *** kicker and a goody are the ones who want no depth in SW...they just want superheroes.They are the reason that Luke is semi-god in NJO etc.

Edited February 8, 2012 by tadro

[tadro]

There's nothing to suggest that Revan or Malak were exceptionally powerful in the Force. Revan's only claims to fame are being the strategic "genius" that realized the Republic could bleed the Mandalorians white through a war of attrition and being exceptionally wise in his endeavors to retain resources or assets as far as Sith go.

.

 

 

err did you read the Revan novel?

 

Revan's creator, Drew Karpyshyn is crystal clear on the matter: Revan is one of the strongest force users in the galaxy.When other force users(and when I say force users I really mean Sith Lords from the true sith empire) try to "scan" him with the Force they are appalled by his power.

[Kalliadies]

ok first of all forget everything about lvls

Levels mean **** when it comes to story.When i played the Foundry I didnt care about the level.Levels are game mechanics NOTHING more.

 

Remember KOTOR 1?You are Revan but you begin the game from lvl 1

In terms of story the 4 heroes who beat Revan are bad mofos.Maybe your TOR character is a nobody to you but mine isnt.

So if they changed the lvl requirement for the Foundry the story would become better???

 

The story is great as it is.And the novel's story is great as well.Trust me when I say that I was really sceptical about Revan's appearance in SWTOR and the Revan novel until I had a first hand experience with the game and the book.

 

Those who wanted Revan to be an eternal *** kicker and a goody are the ones who want no depth in SW...they just want superheroes.They are the reason that Luke is semi-god in NJO etc.

 

The Disappointment comes because in KoToR you WERE Revan and a such became very attached. I don’t know about you but my power was supreme in that game, and the story was the best story I have ever played in a game.

 

To come to SWTOR and defeat Revan as a mid level character of my own (that I am less attached to because the story isn’t as epic as when I was Revan) doesn’t sit right. You say that levels hold no relevance and that your character is already the best. I don’t agree, at lvl 50 you will have reached the epitome of your characters potential strength (through feats and gear). If I came back and did this instance at 50 (hard mode aside), revan would not even scratch me.

 

I don’t mind beating him. But beating him when I am far from my stongest?....MEH!

 

If there is a hardmode for lvl 50’s, I rather wish I hadn’t done foundry until then

[_Zorth_]

Lucas lost his credibility a long time ago.

 

He can't write and nothing he says should be taken seriously. Its like being the king of france but being a complete and utter impotent cretin who can't do the job they are assigned properly.

 

The films weren't works of art either. Some EU writers were and still are better than Lucas. Timothy Zahn for example is much more credible than lucas.

 

So I should take your word before Lucas's?

 

I don't like him that much either but he has the ultimate say in all of it, If he says that Sidious is the most powerful sith in the galaxy that's the way it is, You not liking that decision won't change it.

 

The films are ranked as one of the best in movie history (Original Trilogy) and will remain there for a long time. He didn't crap in the OT and that's why it's good, PT is bad but watchable. But that doesnät change the fact that he and Leeland control the canon, not you.

 

To me the EU writers are jokes, They re-use themes, designs, plots etc. that we see in the OT or PT, worst of all every new character is more powerful than the last, an inflation of power, Not every EU writer of course..

 

Not necessarily. remember, in the books, and as included in the lore, Luke Skywalker uses Force Lightning, however he derived his power for the lightning from the light, not from the dark side.

 

From the light, He didn't feed of negative emotions to conjure his lightning he did it in another way.. hence why he didnät use the dark side. He used an offensive ability but it's source was pure, not corrupt.

 

You see where the line is drawn?

In order to be Jedi and use the light side you have to almost do the opposite things of what the Sith and dark side have to do..

[Kabloosh]

I think the simpliest reason for why Revan was retconed is due to the fact Revan at his strongest kinda makes a continuity error that would have made it hard for the future leading to the movies to exist.

 

Possibly but a lot can happen in a few thousand years... like the rise and fall of many many many nations.

[Kalliadies]

 

 

 

From the light, He didn't feed of negative emotions to conjure his lightning he did it in another way.. hence why he didnät use the dark side. He used an offensive ability but it's source was pure, not corrupt.

 

You see where the line is drawn?

In order to be Jedi and use the light side you have to almost do the opposite things of what the Sith and dark side have to do..

 

You have in so many words said this;

 

Force powers arent inherrently light or dark. The means in which you draw on such powers defines light and dark. Feeding off negative emotion, or pure serentiy.

 

Therefore the force is just the force. And light and Dark are very much just .......#EDITED "Moral Views"

Edited February 8, 2012 by Kalliadies