its good to know someone else wants heavier character development lol

fair enough, i guess i shouldn't expect much more from Starwars. I guess i love kotor 2 too much lol

I just meant in point 1 that something besides the "evil" sith are trying to take over the galaxy while the "good and noble" Jedi save the day. You get what i mean?

just a friendly question...do any of the Jedi in this game or anything recent come off as People or just cardboard cut outs. i guess i just want someone to break free of Lucas' shadow and write something maybe artistic...if that makes any sense. ( i guess i wouldn't be making this thread if i didn't see how much potential starwars has after Playing Kotor 2 restored)

i was not speaking of the game, i meant the franchise as a whole. If people keep on being afraid to do something new with Starwars then i feel as though it will fade into obscurity.

Before any of you attack me just hear me out. In my honest opinion i believe that star wars is on the verge of death if it isn't dead already ( to me it may as well be dead) 1. Reclying the same ideas over and over again 2 characters never going beyond 2d (they feel stagnant and hardly noteworthy aside from what they look like, personality wise they never seem to grow and change in ways that feel realistic. ""I am aware this is a space fantasy but i don't think everything has to be cut and dry like it is now''' 3. The lack of outside the box thinking (this may sound similar to my first point but i honestly think that everyone in the EU is too afraid to tackle ideas and concepts that sort of twist the mythos of starwars a bit. There was a time where i thought there was hope for something new. But i just don't know anymore. So guys, do you think there is any hope for the future of starwars? or is it already too late?

good start so far

Without saying what role they had in the plot describe the characters in both Kotor 1 and 2 in terms of personality.

Before i begin i want to adress material that could potentially support this. 1. Kreia's description of Revan as power, as the "heart of the force" What is meant here is that it is implied that Revan was a master manipulator. He took the armies of the republic who followed him and converted them into his own private army. He even turned those still within republic space to join his cause. His charisma and ability to lead others resulted in one of the most dangerous threats the republic had ever faced during his time period. Without Bastila's battle mediation the republic would have fallen under the constant brutal attacks from Revan and Malak. Keeping with discussing Revan's manipulative power, when Kreia says Revan as the "Heart of the force" She is basically calling him everything that the force represents. Since she views the force as a manipulator that just uses people for the sake of balance she is basically saying that Revan is Manipulator who uses people to further his own goals. Which is what he did during the mandalorian wars. He used assassins to hunt, capture, and break Jedi to join his cause. He effectively wanted to eliminate the weak and ensure only the strong survived. Does this make him a 1d villain like say Palps? No, not by any stretch of the imagination. Revan may have used people to further his own goals but he did it in preparation for the sith empire's return. Does this make him a saint either? No, He clearly was trying to build his own empire to counter the arrival of the Sith Empire. Revan is always a Leader, once the sith Empire is broken or defeated what would stop him from say, taking control of the galaxy to try and prevent his opponents from rising up again. Since Revan was a master manipulator he could easilly sway the people into following him. He could go mad for immortality because he could see how easilly his empire would collapse without his presence. What could be done here is have the companions from Kotor 1 and 2 following Revan since he would be promising Galactic Peace. (Keep in mind i don't intend on saying he would be outright lying, maybe he would actually beleive to his core that only he can save the galaxy) In this case scenario the Exile could have been the protagonist who fights alongside Revan against the Sith empire until Its defeated. After the Empire is no more Revan would declare a new galactic Order and the Exile would stand against him Since it was contradictory to her beliefs. The exile would steal the Ebon hawk and escape Revan before he could excecute her. Companions that would side with Revan Canderous/Mandalore Bastilla Carth Hk 47 Juhani Zaalbar Mission Companions that would side with the Exile Jolee (because i doubt his character would Follow him as Revan would clearly be trying to become a dicator here) Atton T3- M4 (possibly the Exile would duel Bastilla somewhere and the exile would win. Killing Bastila in the Process and empowering Revan's rage. This would cause him to slowly become cold and distant from the reality of the galaxy) Dialogue that could be used during the confrontation between Revan and the exile (this is just how i would do it i am sure you guys have a better idea possibly) (Revan Paces across the Durasteel floor of the Foundry's main antechamber. Arms Crossed as he stretches his gaze outwards towards the space battle that lay beyond. His soldiers engaged in combat with the corrupt remnants of the weak and dependant Republic. His gaze is interrupted by the sudden Entrace of three force users. All of which he knows all too well.) "So, the outcast returns once more, as ill and whimpering as an abused pawn. What surprises me is that you are accompanied by those who have every reason to join me. Your follower, Atton, he was a follower of mine once. You know how much he despises the hypocracy of the Jedi. The pleasure he took in breaking them. The pain he felt as the council sat on their thrones of power while he and so many others died during the mandalorian wars. At any moment i can easilly unlock that part of him and make you see just how much of a monster he truly is. And Jolee Bindo, wounded by guilt by his wife's fall to the dark side clearly has left its marks for the entire galaxy to see. He even would agree with me in the inability of the Order to properly pass judgement on those who clearly deserved it. Bindo cannot deny how flawed and broken the teachings of the Jedi Order are. Deep down even he can accept the Truth that as long as the Jedi and the flawed teachings of its order exist that the galaxy will always be at war." (Revan briskly walks down the cold and empty stairs of the upper antechamber. His masked face starring downward at his enemies as he presses onward with his words) "Do you think that you're rendition of the Jedi is any better than what i have done? I know for a fact that i do not draw on one side of the Force and neither do any of my followers. No one under me is chained to the Jedi code nor are they twisted by the Dark side. I know you can feel me. At my core i do not linger on either spectrum of the force. As long as i Exist within Galatic Space i can guarentee that the infighting between Jedi and Sith will cease. As you have noticed the Majority of the Galaxy is in favor of my lead. Otherwise how can you explain the unwavering loyalty that my followers have for me. While you barely could scrap a fleet togther to mount an assault on the Foundry. The only other assistance you could have scrounged up are the Remnants of the Sith Empire that we Defeated. There can be no comprimise. As long as Republic Stands as it is the galaxy will continue to be the mess it has always been." Idk, maybe you guys could try and add to this. I honestly think Revan could of made for a great Antagonist for Kotor 3 if it ever happened. Share your thoughts.

So far i am aware of the exile being butchered as a character and having all her experiences and accomplishments mean nothing. I am also aware that darth Nihilius might by Retconned out of existence by darth sterotype (scourge) So what else am i missing? Did anything else get retconned while i wasn't looking or what?

Lucas lost his credibility a long time ago. He can't write and nothing he says should be taken seriously. Its like being the king of france but being a complete and utter impotent cretin who can't do the job they are assigned properly. The films weren't works of art either. Some EU writers were and still are better than Lucas. Timothy Zahn for example is much more credible than lucas.

thanks for being blunt about it

looks like the carebears are crying now.

this is interesting

Point is i preferred when the soft part of anikan's betrayal was playing while Baras was alive. When the chorus kicked in it kinda felt over the top. Idk

What i am refering to is the part after Darth Baras is defeated. IMO i think the use of the soft piece when Baras is begging Darth Marr and Ravage for help was well placed. However on the flip side IMO i just feel like the piece that came after when Baras is Ranting about how he cannot be silenced was over the top (in regards to this scene, out of place actually) The reason i am making a bit of a deal of this is because its the only moment where a miniscule shred of pity can be shown for this character. The soft music was a nice compliment to everything Baras worked for crashing down around his ears. It amplified the drama of his climatic fall more so than what was used (you know, where the chorus just raises its voice in the piece.) This is my opinion i wanted to see what everyone else thought. PS. I think the cutscene could of benifited alot more by keeping the music at the same levels rather than raising the volume during Baras' rant. Maybe instead of his rant he could of just grunted after a slow panning shot of him glancing at the dark council members and then realising that its over Baras could of told his former apprentice in a normal tone of voice but with anger obviously beneath the surface "Deliver the death blow then."

thank you! Someone finally said it besides me! Why does no one care about quality anymore!

Either Chris Writes it or not at all. Chris Wrote the character and it would only make sense if he wrote it. If Drew Wrote it he would pass her off as a cliche villain and strip her of all her qualities.

Being neutral isn't its own thing. Its doing both and being fine with it and not being too attached to either

Not one of these groups has the right to play victim card. Both groups are responsible for the galaxy's problems regardless of who struck first. The jedi's flawed teachings are what started this mess to begin with. Just imagine the galaxy run by the Jedi. things would be far worse. The stronger the influence they have on the galaxy the more people die. Plain and simple.

what in particular were lies to you exactly?

someone like her in every way shape or form. only younger. So basically a younger clone of some sort

I think this would an amusing topic. I think the galaxy would be doomed. (a younger kreia would be a better example)

Lucas arts rushed them