Dual Spec - It's a must! (NOT ACs)

[Raeln]

Yeah I love Rift i'm so glad I kept my sub My guild is doing HK tonight I can't wait to get home and jump on a real mmo. Thats how it is lately I play swtor for an hour or so then wind up switching over to rift. Its like I have a brand new pick up truck (Swtor) and a year old Mercedes(Rift) in my drive way. Which do you think i'm driving the most lol not the truck.

 

That's your personal opinion. I played Rift for 3 months. I seen the only thing they knew how to do was put out instanced raid content. It was a shame. I loved their spec system and had a blast on my mage as a chloro, necro/lock and an archon. I'd move between those three specs during most instances.

 

I've noticed after I left that I'm getting all sorts of emails from them advertising small group (1/2 player instances) content now. Too late - they lost me as a 6 month subscriber. They had an awesome thing with their world rift events but they chose to ignore them over ye olde WoW raiding.

 

Hopefully, Bioware does not make the same mistake.

[Poisonsenvy]

Re roll... its the whole point.

You shouldn't have just one character and only play that.

 

 

Why ? Why should I be "forced to re-roll" just to provide more flexibility to the community as a whole as far as grouping is concerned?

[Raeln]

Not quite sure what you mean here. You mean make each class a tank-only, dps-only or healer-only and then give them three flavours of their own specialisation?

 

Or give each class a tank, dps and healing spec?

 

Or give all characters healing/tanking/threat management?

 

It's difficult to give a verbal example of something that cannot be visually demonstrated.

 

Imagine someone choosing a Vanguard Trooper advanced class. The class is a tank/dps class. You know this when you select it.

 

Now imagine that all the tanking abilities you need are already baked into the class and the three talent trees do nothing to modify mitigation or threat. Instead, the three talent trees deliver three different distinct ways to DPS.

 

Say tree 1 presents DPS that is primarily in the form of damage over time.

Tree 2 might be direct damage (nuking).

Tree 3 might be a mix of both or perhaps something that delivers damage through droids.

 

Any of those three trees can tank just as well as the others because no talent points modify tanking in any shape or form. The Vanguard would always be able to tank.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Raeln

[hata]

And less than 10% of the folks that play, come to the forums at all and even fewer than that ever post. 60% of the posters are PvP'ers and less than 5% of the player base PvP.

 

Heck, dual spec is useful. I'm not saying it isn't, but it isn't 'needed'.

 

Sweet numbers bro!

[smartbarley]

lol this guy has to be like 14. hey lil guy fanboy much?

 

Hey this kid must be 12. Just saying the truth kid, don't like it, you don't have to. And I'm 22 moron.

[Kalfear]

it doesn't matter how YOU play .. I'm talking about how the MAJORITY play.

 

and its not just because.. maybe its because i like to play differently with my class.

 

Then roll a second character and play differently!

 

Love how you think your the majority now!

[Raeln]

What I am about to say may sound insulting, but that is not my intent. I am a JC Seer. While I am farming mobs/elites, I do not sit back and just heal my companion. That might be what I have had to do in the past in other games with pets, but that doesn't have to happen in this one. I try to always learn the best way to play my current game and forget about my last one. In this game I switch between healing my companion and DPSing the mobs depending on need.

 

Now, what I did do is look at the DPS'ers videos to see what a good DPS rotation is, but other than that I'm good to go. I have almost no down time between fights unless I get spawned on top of, but other than that I just keep rolling a long. Since I have no down time, my battles 'may' take longer, but certainly not 50% longer and since I have no down time, then my killing speed is roughly equal.

 

Like I said, dual spec can be useful, especially for PvP and PvE. I hope they implement it, but not needed.

 

As a gunnery specced commando sporting my healing companion - I have no downtime either and I blow through elites. I've done some champions though champion mobs are a mixed bag, some are easy others are, "what the...time to run!"

 

I don't know if it's a 50% difference, but it's far more efficient. My full auto and high impact bolt damage are way pumped up over stock. Grav round does much more damage than charged bolts. I'd hate to think I have to solo as a medic build. It'd be so boring and tedious.

[Inraika]

Why ? Why should I be "forced to re-roll" just to provide more flexibility to the community as a whole as far as grouping is concerned?

 

So you can actually play the game.

[Poisonsenvy]

Bottom line its just a fail on BW's part with rushing this release because anyone can see they intended to allow dual specing because they allow you to change stances. This is pointless as it stands now because changing stances w/o the spec to back it up is just a gimp hybrid. I seriously doubt this was BW's intentions. If this game wasn't rushed I'm sure multi specing would of been in the game because switching stances makes no sense w/o it. Edited January 19, 2012 by Poisonsenvy

[smartbarley]

Guild with 4 folks available to run a Flashpoint. Powertech, Operative, Merc, Jugger.

 

?? Do the Powertech and Jugger just roll to see who gets to wonder over to the respec vendor and dish out 50k and redo his hotbars? Oh wait....$500m MMOs do not come with a /roll option =P

 

I don't know much about your guild, but mine very diverse and it's not hard to say "/g lfg for hammer station, I'm a dps lf healer, tank, another dps." Or if you know your guildies by first name and using something we like to call "vent" you can' simply say running heroic whose up for it. And if you know each other you they will say sure but I tank or I heal and you invite accordingly. Or just idk lfg for spec like I said not very hard. People did that all the time before WoW came up with dual spec. Can't imagine it's hard for you to say lfg for blah blah blah. Or in guild saying doing heroic run need blah blah blah.

Edited January 19, 2012 by smartbarley

[ParanoidHobo]

I think you'd see less people clamoring for this if it didn't sound so much like their raid content is designed with already having dual spec in game. At least the number of tanks required on a fight-to-fight basis seems to change rather often. Maybe healers too if some of the hard or nightmare modes have extremely damaging phases or just general design(no idea).

[Draylore]

I don't know much about your guild, but mine very diverse and it's not hard to say "/g lfg for hammer station, I'm a dps lf healer, tank, another dps." Or if you know your guildies by first name and using something we like to call "vent" you can' simply say running heroic whose up for it. And if you know each other you they will say sure but I tank or I heal and you invite accordingly. Or just idk lfg for spec like I said not very hard. People did that all the time before WoW came up with dual spec. Can't imagine it's hard for you to say lfg for blah blah blah. Or in guild saying doing heroic run need blah blah blah.

 

Guess you missed the part about who happened to be available in my example. And I am not talking about lowbie Hammer Station type stuff.....where frankly roles mean nothing.....any 4 of anything can get get thru those.

 

I honestly have no idea why people are so against dual spec.....all it does is open up options for everyone......from guilds that only group amongst themselves to people that only PuG.

[Lethality]

Dual specialization. NOT for Advanced Classes.

 

Flashpoints -

 

Problems = Can't find a tank or healer. OR to many tanks/healers

Solution = Dual Spec. With how the loot drops in swtor it's easy enough for all the hybrid classes to have both sets of gear. This would be promoting more Hard Mode flashpoints.

 

Operations -

 

Problems = To many players of a particular spec.

Solution = Dual Spec. Having the flexability of choices allows for your group of friends to mix and match their specs to better accommodate the particular fight.

 

PvP -

 

Problems = No healers/tanks in the warzone to give a fighting chance for PUGs.

Solution = Dual Spec. you have 1-2mins before each fight to determine what your group makeup is . Then you have the chance to make balanced group.

 

 

The true bottom line is this.

 

Dual Spec helps EVERYONE!

 

It's 100% unnecessary. Honest.

[smartbarley]

Guess you missed the part about who happened to be available in my example. And I am not talking about lowbie Hammer Station type stuff.....where frankly roles mean nothing.....any 4 of anything can get get thru those.

 

I honestly have no idea why people are so against dual spec.....all it does is open up options for everyone......from guilds that only group amongst themselves to people that only PuG.

 

No saw what you were saying and making an example. It's not hard to find people who have one spec that you need in a heroic. People don't need to complain about needing dual spec when the game launched nearly a month ago either. You don't need dual spec if you know how to play the game right which you don't know how to.

[DarthDemens]

No problem with dual spec here, as long as you get charged each time you switch specs.

 

I wouldn't mind a fixed rate to switch between 2 specs, but the scaling on respecing right now is insane.

[Poisonsenvy]

I love how fanboys think so black and white when in reality most situations are grey. Fanboys say "no LFD tool or multi specing needed just get a good guild" but there is so much fail in that statement. No one always wants to do what you want to do guildies might be busy or just not interested. Might not be guildies fitting said needed role atm...people don't play 24/7 some work/school ect.... So what do you do in these cases just decide to abandon the idea until more are on later although you might not have the time later? Do something else...solo qst dailies...but wait this a MMO soloing isn't the reason i bought this game...like come on people it doesn't take a genius to see the convenience and increased enjoyment all around from just being able to dual spec and have a LFD finder. Sad that fanboys think by saying its not needed and stop being lazy is supposed to cover up the obvious fact that these are just standard features in a modern MMO and that the majority of MMO consumers expect this. Edited January 19, 2012 by Poisonsenvy

[Zhiroc]

Dual spec hurts no one, and benefits everyone. I fail to see the reasoning behind not implementing it.

 

That isn't a given. To the extent that individual players are given diversity and versatility, it means that a smaller group of players can achieve self-sufficiency trivially. This therefore would reduce the need to form PUGs, making those who are not already networked to a playgroup even less likely to be able to find a group to join.

[Touchbass]

I love how fanboys think so black and white when in reality most situations are grey. Fanboys say "no LFD tool or multi specing needed just get a good guild" but there is so much fail in that statement. No one always wants to do what you want to do guildies might be busy or just not interested. Might not be guildies fitting said needed role atm...people don't play 24/7 some work/school ect.... So what do you do in these cases just decide to abandon the idea until more are on later although you might not have the time later? Do something else...solo qst dailies...but wait this a MMO soloing isn't the reason i bought this game...like come on people it doesn't take a genius to see the convenience and increased enjoyment all around from just being able to dual spec and have a LFD finder. Sad that fanboys think by saying its not needed and stop being lazy is supposed to cover up the obvious fact that these are just standard features in a modern MMO and that the majority of MMO consumers expect this.

 

+1. Someone in another thread told me that people not to socialize more and stop being lazy. I find it amusing when I see someone socialing for an hour in /fleet as a dps unable to find a group that someone would consider that "lazy" behaviour. When you challenge someone on that point be prepared for a "your an idiot" response, priceless

[Youmu]

Yes please.

 

Anything that makes the hassle of swapping between PvE and PvP healer builds less painful.

 

Hell, limit it to only a specific NPC on fleet, and give it a couple of hour timer between re-uses so people aren't just flip-flopping between the two.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Youmu

[Touchbass]

That isn't a given. To the extent that individual players are given diversity and versatility, it means that a smaller group of players can achieve self-sufficiency trivially. This therefore would reduce the need to form PUGs, making those who are not already networked to a playgroup even less likely to be able to find a group to join.

 

Translation: I want to make others life as miserable as possible so I can be a unique snowflake.

[Leiloni]

Dual specialization. NOT for Advanced Classes.

 

Flashpoints -

 

Problems = Can't find a tank or healer. OR to many tanks/healers

Solution = Dual Spec. With how the loot drops in swtor it's easy enough for all the hybrid classes to have both sets of gear. This would be promoting more Hard Mode flashpoints.

 

Operations -

 

Problems = To many players of a particular spec.

Solution = Dual Spec. Having the flexability of choices allows for your group of friends to mix and match their specs to better accommodate the particular fight.

 

PvP -

 

Problems = No healers/tanks in the warzone to give a fighting chance for PUGs.

Solution = Dual Spec. you have 1-2mins before each fight to determine what your group makeup is . Then you have the chance to make balanced group.

 

 

The true bottom line is this.

 

Dual Spec helps EVERYONE!

 

Dev's already confirmed that we're getting Dual Spec so no need to ask for it.

 

 

 

http://forums.bestbuy.com/t5/Gaming-Gadgets/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Developer-Live-Chat-Transcript/td-p/406744

 

Best Buy Dev Chat Transcript from December 14, 2011. Ctrl + F, type "Dual Spec".

 

"Guest-87: Any word if there will be dual specing within the same advance class?

 

 

Gaming-BBY: >>James: We’re definitely looking at allowing dual specing within the same advanced class soon after ship."

 

Lots of other good stuff in that transcript, too.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Leiloni

[UnlimitedPowuh]

I'd support Dual-Spec considering that you're locked into your "Advanced Class". So, I've got an Immortal specced Jugg and can only perform two roles anyway, what's the big deal? I mean I can't go Marauder so I don't have an issue with having to wear Medium armor over Heavy as a Jugg, the only thing that changes is my mods and stat priorities. Heck I've saved up a ton of DPS gear just in case...

 

I'm not sure if there are any tri-role classes ala Druids and Paladins from that game that apparently can't be mentioned. If so, then there could be an issue if one of the roles geared differently.

 

Since we are locked into AC's I don't see a problem with being able to, if you WANT to, gearing and speccing to perform another role, which generally does benefit the community. I'd be more than happy to run a lot of stuff with folks but when I see that the tank is already spoken for, I have no option other than to find another group or start my own etc.

 

Either one or the other should happen; Dual Spec or reduced cost in respeccing so that people willing to perform a needed role in any given situation, be it Heroics, Flashpoints, Operations or PVP can do so rather than let the group continue to spam chat hoping that someone in that role speaks up or is on to speak up. For example, perhaps some are late night gamers when the server pop is fairly empty... I've seen people spamming for a long time and if there was a dual spec or reduced cost to do so, the more friendly and cooperative folks would be more apt to answer those queries and help move things along. Isn't that the point of the game? It's not a single player game so having only the option to spend a significant amount of credits to help-out or go Alt crazy just to help out isn't exactly the best thing for the community.

 

Even guilds from time to time can really benefit from the players that recognize the utility of being able to fill dual roles as-needed. In that game that shall not be mentioned my Druid is tank/heal specced for that very reason and otherwise I bring my Warlock if it's just DPS needed.

 

If you don't prefer having utility in performing different roles, then there's no problem, don't purchase the "dual-spec" ability. From what others have seen via experience, it's a real disincentive to fill that other role when it's going to eventually cost you 100k to do so. Granted credits might be really easy to come by, I've not maxed level yet so I don't really know, however, I just don't see a real problem with this idea given the points put forward both here and in other posts.

 

It doesn't have to a huge priority but it'd be a great Quality of Life improvement and should help alleviate the ever-constant battle of getting groups together, because I don't think anyone would really disagree that problem DOES come up and often enough that the idea should be considered, unless the Devs can point to a very good reason that it's not.

 

Just my .02 copper.

[theothersteve]

I personally believe they're just holding out on it until they've polished it for the Legacy feature update.

[GellonSW]

It's going to happen eventually. Ohlen has already stated its coming.

[KTheAlchemist]

Respec.

 

Personally I'd feel more comfortable with this answer if respec costs were more under control.

 

(In before "respec cost reset" claims, it's been fairly well established that these either do not exist or they are bugged.)