Big_Bad_B Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) LET ME REPEAT MYSELF for the 100th time, just to try and get through that supermassive black hole of density. NOT WORKING AS INTENDED is not the same as "BROKE". Please point out which patch it is that whatever dev said caused RE to break. I would love to see that post. From the point of view of the devs, 'not working as intended' is the same as 'broken'. Edited February 11, 2012 by Big_Bad_B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maelstromicus Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 LET ME REPEAT MYSELF for the 100th time, just to try and get through that supermassive black hole of density. NOT WORKING AS INTENDED is not the same as "BROKE". Please point out which patch it is that whatever dev said caused RE to break. I would love to see that post. People replying to this person are simply fuelling his ego. Can you guys not see that he is simply trolling in order to start a flame war. Perhaps the forum admins will, for once, act against a fanboi? Scrolling back a page or two results in 5 single unanswered posts in the space of 10 minutes. That is not behaviour demonstrated in a rational discussion, it is behaviour indicative of flaming. Admins, I doubt you will do anything, and look forward to yet another warning for daring to speak out. Any fanboi's who troll looking for flame wars seem to be "untouchable". I'm going to take a copy of this reply, just to prove to myself that it's perfectly rational when it gets deleted & I get the lovely "warning" email. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatched Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Yesterday I got: 1 level 32 purple reusable stim (took only about 5 RE's in total from green to purple) 1 level 32 purple reusable med pack (took only about 6 RE's in total from green to purple) 1 level 32 purple reusable adrenal (took only 3 RE's in total from green to purple) 1 level 37 epic implant recipe (took about 11 RE's to get) 2 level 33 epic implant recipes (took about ~25 RE's in total to get both) RE'ing seems perfectly fine to me.... maybe even a little TOO easy. You must be a lucky person. I finally learned my level 40 purple adrenal after Over 30 RE's! It has been a nightmare learning new schematics for me! I no longer wish to participate in crafting anything. It's a money pit with no return of investment. I used to love crafting in Swtor and bragged to wow players about their system but no longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatched Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Can we get clarification by higher-level items? I honestly do not want a higher tweak on endgame crafting since there is really nothing else to do and I have no issues with RE at that level. However I would like RE tweaked in reverse order (lower the level of item the better the chance of RE) just so crafting can be used to gear a player 1-50 like it should. The issue with learning already learned schematics should be more than enough of a tweak for endgame. Why? Because you were one of the lucky ones that was able to learn all your schematics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) No, I'm not arguing just to argue. I DO NOT WANT the crafting system to be nerfed so that schems are easy to get and there is nothing to strive for. I pointed out my "lucky streak" because SO many people have been posting that they can't get any schems. My belief is that the system is too easy as is or at the very least is at a decent rate already. Plenty of people agree with me, and some of them have posted. More are just busy crafting. Once again, easy or hard is not at issue. A failed RE system is. I've already defined what the parameters that would have to be present for such, and they are not, yet you continue to default to this irrelevant argument. The purpose of tradeskills is not challenge, it is to be able to craft and create items for one's character. It is a peripheral aspect of the gaming experience designed to enhance, not detract from the game. It is not doing so atm and has been acknowledged by the development team. Which facts did I bend exactly? And what exactly is your point of view since you don't seem to have one in this post? You called me a liar in a very subtle way but you still called me a liar and I'd love for you to point out where exactly I lied. The RNG, by implying, via (what you now call) your lucky streak as reason to disregard arguments to the contrary. You held that up as a norm and are only retracting it now becuase you were called on what was little more then a sophmoric attempt to dismiss. YOu have then used words such as "moron", "stupid", "idiot" as a means of bullying your point forward. That is usually the tactic of someone that cannot defend their position. I never said that you lied. That is another way by which you are mucking up the discussion, and failing to defend your point with logic and rational discourse. My point of view is and has been clearly stated, several times. You're quite articulate and have demonstrated excellent knowledge of the English language, congrats! However, your post reminded me of the English papers I used to write - they sound great, but there's no actual substance. Perfect example of your continued ad-hominum attacks. Once again, utilized when one cannot defend their point beyond, "Because I want it". Defend your argument. Demonstrate the advantage to "making it harder", or drop out. Insults and bullying only demonstrate the folly of your argument. Edited February 11, 2012 by Blackardin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So crafting has no goal for you? Why exactly do you do it then? AS for my point.. crafting is already easy enough as is (too easy probably) and making it easier is not the solution. Which is completely obvious from my posts. Perhaps with all your English writing skills you missed out on reading comprehension? This, again, is your opinion. It is also yet another logical falacy. You are arguing both sides of the discussion, and you are continually attempting to drag the discussion down to an almost childish level. Further. I did not contend that crafting had no goal. You, once again, interjected that as my opinion as a means of detracting from my opinion. I contended that using the goal approach in such a sophomoric way is a point of irrelevance as it completely misses the mark, not that there is no goal to crafting. In regard to "challenge". Once again, their is no logical challenge, no learning curve, no way that the player can interact and improve his potential and skill.....just random numbers generated by a computer. Slot machines based on little more then luck of the draw managed not by the player, but by the designer. That is not challenge, and changing this does not change the level of "challenge". It simply changes the degree to which it enhances the gaming experience for the average player....and hopefully the main of their demographic. There is only one goal in crafting, and it is not to collect all the "leet" patterns and corner the market on the GTN (which is suspect is your goal and why you are insisting on maintaining the status quo). That is not the intent of the skill system at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Yesterday I got: 1 level 32 purple reusable stim (took only about 5 RE's in total from green to purple) 1 level 32 purple reusable med pack (took only about 6 RE's in total from green to purple) 1 level 32 purple reusable adrenal (took only 3 RE's in total from green to purple) 1 level 37 epic implant recipe (took about 11 RE's to get) 2 level 33 epic implant recipes (took about ~25 RE's in total to get both) RE'ing seems perfectly fine to me.... maybe even a little TOO easy. if this were the case for everyone, in all attempts, then you would have an argument. However, posting one lucky streak that, quite frankly, defies imagination, is a logical fallacy. In fact, going from green to purple in 3 tries further supports our argument contending that a straight forward RE system based on a random number generator (which is not random at all) is a failed system. This should not occur any more or less the 75 failures on a green. That is the entire gist of the argument-no learning curve, no player participation, just gambling....which greatly affects the gaming experience in a negative way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 People replying to this person are simply fueling his ego. Can you guys not see that he is simply trolling in order to start a flame war. I'm starting to believe that to be the case as he has no point worth defending. I'll not be wasting any more time on that, but just state my concerns and move on. ;p Bottom line here folks? When a crafter (using biochemist), starts gathering and making his level 33 pots at level 31, and has still not managed to accomplish that by level 35 and 150k later, the system is not working as intended. Certainly for the highest level items, permanent high level items, we can make it more difficult to achieve, but turning low level patterns that have a life expectancy of 4 days? No, that is not conducive to enhanced game play, or enjoyment. It is, rather, conducive to mat farming, "gold" farmers, GTN resellers, and the elite minded (I'll horde my patterns) little guy we have arguing here on the boards. For the rest of us it becomes little more then frustrating, not only due to the fail rates, but by taking the game from us and handing it to them (as it is now with level 2 mats going for upwards of 500 credits each)....and in a game that I love, for me, disappointing. Cary on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagecarrot Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 No, that is not conducive to enhanced game play, or enjoyment. It is, rather, conducive to mat farming, "gold" farmers, GTN resellers, and the elite minded (I'll horde my patterns) little guy we have arguing here on the boards. For the rest of us it becomes little more then frustrating, not only due to the fail rates, but by taking the game from us and handing it to them (as it is now with level 2 mats going for upwards of 500 credits each)....and in a game that I love, for me, disappointing. +1, sums up my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiehex Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 People replying to this person are simply fuelling his ego. Can you guys not see that he is simply trolling in order to start a flame war. Perhaps the forum admins will, for once, act against a fanboi? Scrolling back a page or two results in 5 single unanswered posts in the space of 10 minutes. That is not behaviour demonstrated in a rational discussion, it is behaviour indicative of flaming. Admins, I doubt you will do anything, and look forward to yet another warning for daring to speak out. Any fanboi's who troll looking for flame wars seem to be "untouchable". I'm going to take a copy of this reply, just to prove to myself that it's perfectly rational when it gets deleted & I get the lovely "warning" email. LOL Yeah because everyone that thinks not everything revolves around the "I want now, me me me" attitude people like you and so many others have, is a troll.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosmos Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm a level 32 PT on my 3rd (major) alt...I have RE'd a lvl 31 chest piece green pattern around 18 times just to get the blue schematic, I have now RE"d this one around 14 times with NO PURPLE. I have spent so much flippin money sending companions out on 20 minute mission times to either get no results or 2 underworld metals. This just plain sucks, fix this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaj Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I dont see any mention of this in 1.1.3 pts patch notes (due 14/2 or 21/2) or in 1.2 official discussions (march sometime). I would love to see something more indicative of timeframe than 'upcoming patch' as i dont really hold off RE indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadSpice Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think it's fair to say that some people may or may not have been effected by this RE irregularity. Despite the very loud and rude (bored?) trolls out there this is a problem. There have been patch fixes in the past that I've cheerfully noted didnt affect me in the slightest because My server, or class, or profession didn't suffer that particular bug. That said, I am an ardent crafter, and I understand what feels right and what feels broken. About a week and a half ago I saw both me and my girlfriend's crafting come to a screeching halt. Artifice began consuming mats 20+ times without yielding results. Her Beginners Armormech skills consumed her mats and a stash of mats I loaned her without the luxury of so much as one schematic boost. I'm glad that the dev's have located this problem because I've stopped trying to craft which is one of my favorite pass times in the Old Republic. I hope a fix is around the corner. I shouldnt have to spend 20k credits crafting without room for improving my skills. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammkala Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation. Patrick Malott Systems Designer Any idea as to when this fix will happen? Annoying to RE 50 blue implants without getting a purple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluehatBoy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Any idea as to when this fix will happen? Annoying to RE 50 blue implants without getting a purple. Try 150 blues across three professions. I eventually gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeny Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I RE 50+ lvl 49 ear piece and got nothing... Gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Funk Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2800624#post2800624 they have a patch tomorrow and one possibly planned for the 20th. My money would be on the 20th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosmos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yeah, ive RE'd a blue chest piece from armormech about 38 times now with no purple schematic, thats a LOT of time and money wasted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yeah, ive RE'd a blue chest piece from armormech about 38 times now with no purple schematic, thats a LOT of time and money wasted 38? that's it? I was at the 250 mark on lvl 49 blue implants before I got a purple. 38 is nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 38? that's it? I was at the 250 mark on lvl 49 blue implants before I got a purple. 38 is nothing. This isn't a pissing contest. As ridiculous as 250 tries is, 38 is still in the ballpark of "unacceptable," especially in a system where you can't control the upgrade you receive. On another topic, to those who don't want the RE chance increased, the fact is there currently is no real economy. Crafted gear doesn't make any sort of profit, because the game is flooded with commendation gear and the plethora of world drops. The ease of which anybody can pick up purple gear at level 50 is laughable, and it's better than crafted gear. If this wasn't the case, then having crafted epics difficult to attain would be a valid approach... but Bioware already screwed this up, so there's just no reason not to make it easier to RE new schematics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoskthecub Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I hope they increase purple chances much more on lower levels than end game gear. End game is... well... end game... I don't mind working for a grand goal there where only 1% of RE yields a new recipe. However... it absolutely stinks that it is so hard on low level gear. If I want to craft a purple item for my level 20 marauder I'd have to spend a whole night in a resource rich environment grinding resources, sending crew members on missions and reverse engineering. The performance increase yielded to my marauder because of that item maybe reduces the time of each fight with 0.1 seconds. However... if I had spent those hours playing my marauder instead of grinding resources I would have gone from level 20 to level 30 instead... and already made that purple item obsolete. There is absolutely no reason for crafting low level gear than the sheer joy of playing a lottery where the chances of winning are worse than a rigged slot machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) This isn't a pissing contest. As ridiculous as 250 tries is, 38 is still in the ballpark of "unacceptable," especially in a system where you can't control the upgrade you receive. On another topic, to those who don't want the RE chance increased, the fact is there currently is no real economy. Crafted gear doesn't make any sort of profit, because the game is flooded with commendation gear and the plethora of world drops. The ease of which anybody can pick up purple gear at level 50 is laughable, and it's better than crafted gear. If this wasn't the case, then having crafted epics difficult to attain would be a valid approach... but Bioware already screwed this up, so there's just no reason not to make it easier to RE new schematics. No real economy? Weird, I can't keep crafted items stocked for the life of me. Almost all of my credits (probably more than 95%) have come from crafting because I don't do dailies and such. I've also cycled through many more credits through missions & purchasing resources. Oh and I forgot to add - 38 is NOT in the ballpark of unacceptable. You want everything handed to you on a silver platter fine that's your prerogative but have the cajones to admit what it is you're asking for. Edited February 14, 2012 by Larkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnoxx Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This whole idea that crafted gear sucks has got to stop. Crafted gear, the right crafted gear, is better then normal Op gear and is on par with Hard mode Op gear. Numbers don't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironcleaver Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) This whole idea that crafted gear sucks has got to stop. Crafted gear, the right crafted gear, is better then normal Op gear and is on par with Hard mode Op gear. Numbers don't lie. Agreed. Surprised not more people are catching on. Most player crafted purple gear blows orange and daily gear out of the water, the aug slot is just a cherry on top. When done correctly they are on par if not still better then Tier 1 raid gear and when compared to tier 2 raid gear, it's still debatable. One day people will notice I guess. :-/ Edited February 14, 2012 by Ironcleaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xKrikkit Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Something clearly needs to be done. I like the simple example of my guildmate and I. We were both after the same recipe. He got it the first day of trying, I got a trash recipe. He has been crafting said item ever since, as far as I can tell, the only person on our server making it. I on the other hand, am now about 6 weeks into re attempts, millions and millions of credits blown buying components off the market. I did eventually get a second recipe, the trash one I already knew. It was comical. =( Edited February 14, 2012 by xKrikkit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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