Blackardin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) What do you need to be an *** for? Because his argument holds no merit. ;p Edited February 10, 2012 by Blackardin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 If it's not hard exactly is this difficulty that everyone is complaining about? RNG. Difficulty is an aspect that can be overcome with the acquisition of skill, playing a slot machine cannot. We are currently doing little more then earning our money and buying tokens for a slot machine. Skill does not enter into the picture at all, therefor the concept of difficulty or ease can neither. To argue contrary is to interject logical fallacy into the discussion, and cloud the overall issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yeah, RE is sooo broken *rolleyes* Tonight so far I've RE'd 11 level 37 green items: 2 RE's - schem 4 RE's - schem 3 RE's - schem 2 RE's - schem So 4 blue schems for 11 RE's of green items. Gosh yeah, since that last patch RE is COMPLETELY, UTTERLY, INEXORABLY BROKEN. Also, friend just got a level 49 purple earpiece tonight after a few tries. What bearing does this have on the discussion beyond extending further logical fallacy? Think in terms of Ceasar's palace and the big winner boasting the praises of the Casino. Well and good, but fails to account for the 1000 people that lost their paycheck on that same night, because the odds disfavor them, or put in different terms, enough to not only supplement the winners earning, but also maintain the wealth and prosperity of Cesar's palace. Your success for a single night simply proves to mask the greater problem. Boasting it here as an argument in favor of the current system does little more then muck up the discussion with very little substance. If it were that simple, they would call it Ceasar's shack, not Ceasar's Palace. ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiracle Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Oh, I see. You think some people just "got lucky" and haven't been working at getting their schems? Working at getting resources & credits and leveling their character and all that? Lol. There are so many people that think of themselves as victims in this game, it's really quite laughable. So, when you RE you are saying you are guaranteed to get what you want everytime? I don't know what game you are playing but when I pull the crank on the slot machine I am sure that it is based on RNG, not the effort you put into collecting mats. Nothing other than using companions with bonus to crit can be done to influence the RNG. Please enlighten us how "getting resources & credits and leveling their character" influences the RNG? All I can see is "getting resources & credits and leveling their character" allows you to play the RNG game. Nothing more. Please tell Patrick that he doesn't know of what he speaks and you know better. ========================================================= The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation. Patrick Malott Systems Designer ========================================================= And as I said before, you are talking about low level items and doing green to blue. When you get to 50 and get a 100% proc rate on the blue to purples then come back and talk. Till then, troll away troll away Edited February 10, 2012 by Amiracle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reapzzz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation. Patrick Malott Systems Designer Which upcomming patch will it be? The next one i hope. I have stopped RE until this gets fixed, but really want to get started again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravynsclaw Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Glad to see this posted in the Forums. Im personally suffering from same issue. Before the recent patch I could RE lvl 49 blue enhancements 4-20 times to get a purple. Now I am currently on 176 blue Adept enhancements and have yet to attain the purple schematic.. IDK but that to me seems broken. On my server the 4 Lorridian Gemstones sell for 1.5-2k a pop. Personally i had over 700 stockpiled, but now I am completely out of resources and quite frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 What do you need to be an *** for? The post I quoted said things were no big deal and he was getting schematics like it was going out of style, I was pointing out the other end of the spectrum. When you're crafting lvl 49 blues, it's not *simply* a matter of the 'hard work' you sent your companions on, it's time and credits and resources wasted. A LOT of them. I don't EXPECT anything, but I can and do get frustrated when I waste over 600 resources, including 100 Ciridium and unless you've got a ton of it to spare, spare us your righteous indignation. Oh, so all other levels take no effort whatsoever? Lol. I've wasted plenty of resources RE'ing, including for level 49 items - I just don't throw a temper tantrum when I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think something has definitely happened to RE over the past week or so. I have RE'd tons of items up to purple but, in the last week, I have gotten ZERO schematics and I have RE'd at least 200 items. I'm not getting "you already know this schematic" either. I'm getting nothing. I know RNG, blah, blah, blah but there is no way I've been that unlucky. I've been getting schems just fine, as have a ton of people. But, clearly, there are plenty of people here that will agree some magical unnamed patch broke RE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 RNG. Difficulty is an aspect that can be overcome with the acquisition of skill, playing a slot machine cannot. We are currently doing little more then earning our money and buying tokens for a slot machine. Skill does not enter into the picture at all, therefor the concept of difficulty or ease can neither. To argue contrary is to interject logical fallacy into the discussion, and cloud the overall issue. So making the system easier is the solution? Right. CHANGING the system is one thing, making it easy-peasy is just dumb. But clearly that's exactly what people want. Personally, I don't care much about the market crashing but we all how many of these same people are going to be here crying about that after it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 What bearing does this have on the discussion beyond extending further logical fallacy? Think in terms of Ceasar's palace and the big winner boasting the praises of the Casino. Well and good, but fails to account for the 1000 people that lost their paycheck on that same night, because the odds disfavor them, or put in different terms, enough to not only supplement the winners earning, but also maintain the wealth and prosperity of Cesar's palace. Your success for a single night simply proves to mask the greater problem. Boasting it here as an argument in favor of the current system does little more then muck up the discussion with very little substance. If it were that simple, they would call it Ceasar's shack, not Ceasar's Palace. ;p So making it easy for everyone all the time is the answer? Have fun with that, because crafting where there is nothing to strive for is well.. it's just pushing buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So, when you RE you are saying you are guaranteed to get what you want everytime? When did I ever say this? What, because I don't complain constantly on the forums about how terrible RNG is then I must never have any bad luck? LOL. Not everyone hates needing to put some effort into crafting. I don't know what game you are playing but when I pull the crank on the slot machine I am sure that it is based on RNG, not the effort you put into collecting mats. Nothing other than using companions with bonus to crit can be done to influence the RNG. Please enlighten us how "getting resources & credits and leveling their character" influences the RNG? All I can see is "getting resources & credits and leveling their character" allows you to play the RNG game. Nothing more. The effort you put into getting materials & crafting makes RE possible. So yes, it matters. If you think lack of resources isn't part of why people freak out when RE isn't going their way then you are sadly mistaken. Please tell Patrick that he doesn't know of what he speaks and you know better. ========================================================= The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation. Patrick Malott Systems Designer ========================================================= Which patch did it break in, since you're all so convinced it broke? All he says is it's "not working as intended" which is exactly what they say every time they want to change something. "Not working as intended" does not translate to "broken" Read the thread. Tons of people think RE actually ISN'T WORKING and schems are not possible. Stop lying to people. YOU know it's not broken, you just don't like the rate of return. Which is not the same thing, in case you still can't understand that. And as I said before, you are talking about low level items and doing green to blue. AND, as I've said many times before, I've done high level items. Other people I play with have done high level items. I'm currently working on getting all the blue implants that I didn't already have and I started from the bottom. I'm at 37. RE is NOT broken. When you get to 50 and get a 100% proc rate on the blue to purples then come back and talk. Till then, troll away troll away OH, well that explains it all. You're one of those people that thinks you should get a purple every time you RE. Now I completely understand what type of person you are and why you're here complaining about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerithel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 If it helps in some small measure, I got to about 150 Biochem yesterday and haven't had issues REing the stims, medpacks, etc. It often wouldn't take more than 5 REs to get the upgraded schematic (once in a while it would take up to 10 attempts). HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Ziva Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I've been getting schems just fine, as have a ton of people. But, clearly, there are plenty of people here that will agree some magical unnamed patch broke RE. Since you've been RE'ing level 37 greens with no problems, that means that RE'ing level 49 blues or purples is also working with no problems? Edited February 10, 2012 by Screaming_Ziva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Since you've been RE'ing level 37 greens with no problems, that means that RE'ing level 49 blues or purples is also working with no problems? Try reading some of my other posts. And, also, I'm not under the belief that level 49's should be easy-peasy to get, but I guess that's just me. Edited February 10, 2012 by Larkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) So making the system easier is the solution? Right. CHANGING the system is one thing, making it easy-peasy is just dumb. But clearly that's exactly what people want. Personally, I don't care much about the market crashing but we all how many of these same people are going to be here crying about that after it happens. No, what I am saying is that easy or hard are not at issue here. They do not apply to the argument at all, and for the reasons I stated prior. I am saying that you are interjecting a sophomoric argument rife with logical fallacy that is doing nothing beyond bogging down the discussion and ignoring facts that both the players and the developers are aware of, have acknowledged exist, and are attempting to correct. Further, if we were to embrace your contention that "hard means better", we would have to first ignore reams of data and both the successes and failures of previous RPGs that have already proved this theory invalid as a blanket premise from which to proceed across the board. The system can be tuned to be both successful and less frustrating. Simple minded thought processes such as you are putting forward grant no definition of, or possible solution to the problem. What I see is that rather then employ some semblance of scientific process you have first arrived at a conclusion and then are bending the facts to support that-such as invalidating any concern over the RNG because yesterday you had a lucky streak. In short, arguing just to argue. Edited February 10, 2012 by Blackardin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So making it easy for everyone all the time is the answer? Have fun with that, because crafting where there is nothing to strive for is well.. it's just pushing buttons. Crafting, no matter the outcome, is just pushing buttons. Again, you are making no point, just arguing random thoughts and attempting to use such to justify your point....which I am still unsure of in the first place. ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 No, what I am saying is that easy or hard are not at issue here. They do not apply to the argument at all, and for the reasons I stated prior. I am saying that you are interjecting a sophomoric argument rife with logical fallacy that is doing nothing beyond bogging down the discussion and ignoring facts that both the players and the developers are aware of, have acknowledged exist, and are attempting to correct. Further, if we were to embrace your contention that "hard means better", we would have to first ignore reams of data and both the successes and failures of previous RPGs that have already proved this theory invalid. The system can be tuned to be both successful and less frustrating. Simple minded thought processes such as you are putting forward grant no definition of, or possible solution to the problem. What I see is that rather then employ some semblance of scientific process you have first arrived at a conclusion and then are bending the facts to support that-such as invalidating any concern over the RNG because yesterday you had a lucky streak. In short, arguing just to argue. No, I'm not arguing just to argue. I DO NOT WANT the crafting system to be nerfed so that schems are easy to get and there is nothing to strive for. I pointed out my "lucky streak" because SO many people have been posting that they can't get any schems. My belief is that the system is too easy as is or at the very least is at a decent rate already. Plenty of people agree with me, and some of them have posted. More are just busy crafting. Which facts did I bend exactly? And what exactly is your point of view since you don't seem to have one in this post? You called me a liar in a very subtle way but you still called me a liar and I'd love for you to point out where exactly I lied. You're quite articulate and have demonstrated excellent knowledge of the English language, congrats! However, your post reminded me of the English papers I used to write - they sound great, but there's no actual substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Crafting, no matter the outcome, is just pushing buttons. Again, you are making no point, just arguing random thoughts and attempting to use such to justify your point....which I am still unsure of in the first place. ;p So crafting has no goal for you? Why exactly do you do it then? AS for my point.. crafting is already easy enough as is (too easy probably) and making it easier is not the solution. Which is completely obvious from my posts. Perhaps with all your English writing skills you missed out on reading comprehension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiracle Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The devs have said it isn't working as intended. Are you saying they aren't telling the truth? Please provide the proof that it is working as intended if you think you know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The devs have said it isn't working as intended. Are you saying they aren't telling the truth? Please provide the proof that it is working as intended if you think you know better. LET ME REPEAT MYSELF for the 100th time, just to try and get through that supermassive black hole of density. NOT WORKING AS INTENDED is not the same as "BROKE". Please point out which patch it is that whatever dev said caused RE to break. I would love to see that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetickone Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation. Patrick Malott Systems Designer lol, more free loot in an already loaded carebare world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiracle Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) LET ME REPEAT MYSELF for the 100th time, just to try and get through that supermassive black hole of density. NOT WORKING AS INTENDED is not the same as "BROKE". Please point out which patch it is that whatever dev said caused RE to break. I would love to see that post. Of course it isn't. Do you really think they would come out and say its broken? Do you think any company would admit to their product being broken if they don't have to? its obvious you are a very naive person if you think gaming companies ever come out and say their games are broken. I guess all the recent failed MMOs isn't proof of that. All those games are fine and it was the players who didn't know better.....rofl. Whats the colour of the sky in your world? Edited February 10, 2012 by Amiracle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GellonSW Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation. Patrick Malott Systems Designer Can we get clarification by higher-level items? I honestly do not want a higher tweak on endgame crafting since there is really nothing else to do and I have no issues with RE at that level. However I would like RE tweaked in reverse order (lower the level of item the better the chance of RE) just so crafting can be used to gear a player 1-50 like it should. The issue with learning already learned schematics should be more than enough of a tweak for endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitblade Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So making it easy for everyone all the time is the answer? Have fun with that, because crafting where there is nothing to strive for is well.. it's just pushing buttons. OK we get it, it's All right and Dandy because it's Easy for YOU, the rest of us getting NOTHING can just go to hell as it's working all right. Can't you even see or believe there might be something influencing our RNG that was not foreseen, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tierce Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation. Patrick Malott Systems Designer So can you please clarify if the return rate has always not been working as intended since launch, or did it get broken somewhere along the way by a patch since launch? I know a lot of people, myself included, who are pretty much putting crafting on hold because they don't want to waste materials on a broken RE system. However, I think if you can clarify that the RE rate has been this same way since Launch, we'd all just go back to what we were doing and look forward to future improvements, just like we are looking forward to them with other game features. If it was broken at some point by a patch, you guys really need to expedite the fix ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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