MrVayne Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 and I guess you missed the point where WoW released a content patch at its 1st month. Like you said it had a lot of bugs and was a rough launch but still added a content patch. Content patches are needed. The point isn't "WoW released a content patch at its 1st month", it's "WoW didn't launch with anywhere near as many serious bugs as TOR has when they started releasing content". I get that design on an MMO is handled by teams working on different areas, so delivering content doesn't mean nobody was fixing bugs in the meantime, and I even get that the content we've just received is stuff that was in development for months before launch and just needed the finishing touches before it could go live. On the other hand, I also get that this game was rushed out by EA in time for Christmas and as such launched a little before it was ready, and that the teams working on new content contain some people who would be perfectly competent as bughunters. Based on this it seems reasonable, at least to me, to temporarily retask those programmers working on new things to fix bugs in the things we already have instead. Not every problem can be solved by throwing more resources at it, but with the sheer variety of bugs in the game, more people working on them will lead to us seeing some fixes sooner than we would otherwise. I call that a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hahkil Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Games have different teams -.-. The vast majority of people who release you content have no idea how to fix your UI coding, or edit certain parts of coding. People have this culture of just assuming that in a gaming company there is only one team that sit around a desk prioritising what they should do then just put suggestions into a computer and press enter, walah, problems solved. There are problems with the game, don't get me wrong, but don't say "YOU DID THIS BUT NOT THIS, STOP WASTING RESOURCES" as it is most likely that the teams solving "your" problems had no involvement at all in the other problems. I've seen on other games people yelling at marketing managers, asking them why they haven't fixed x or y abiltiies. Which is idiocy in itself, yet people don't seem to see the problem. tl;dr; Game companies have alot of different sectors devoted to different problems, don't expect a graphical artist to be able to re-program your UI etc. Obviously not aimed at people who understand this, mostly aimed at the OP and some others Edited January 19, 2012 by Hahkil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowred Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Don't tell me the content *team* can't find bugs.... that would explain everything But I do agree they need to fix the many and varied bugs before rushing out yet more buggy content... We're almost at the stage of having an update to fix the bugs in the bug update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrosil Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 They actually fixed quite a few bugs with this patch. Check the patch notes. Yes, and created twice as many. Check the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyIommi Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 This is not how game design works. They do not put the entire damned team on a single project. There is a team to fix bugs, there is a team to work on future content, there are teams specifically to THINK UP new content to be made. All of these "hurhur signed" posts just goes to show how little someone can know about their hobby. Rational people are in sore demand on these forums. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrosil Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I must be having a dejavu. I read the same thread on STO forums two or so years ago. And I used the argument that you can harldy build a skyscraper without a solid basement. And guess what. I was right. We were given a new content but nearly no bug fixing. And look where STO is now. Swithced to F2P with diminishing player base. But if this is what some posters want to happen with SW TOR, then by all means, enjoy your bugged endgame content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culveren Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Please don't release or work on any new content until the current problems are roughly 100% fixed. Thanks. They have different departments/Teams for new content and bug/optimization. So when they develop new content it is not affecting the rate of bug/optimization fixes. There are tons of things that people want, some want UI changes, some want better FPS/optimization, others want bugs fixed, others want more responsiveness, and some want more content. We must all be patient. I know its frustrating to see Bioware release more content when what you want is something else, but not everyone is in the same boat as you. We must remember that we are one of 2 million players, and that out wants/desires are not indicative of the population as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The point isn't "WoW released a content patch at its 1st month", it's "WoW didn't launch with anywhere near as many serious bugs as TOR has when they started releasing content". I get that design on an MMO is handled by teams working on different areas, so delivering content doesn't mean nobody was fixing bugs in the meantime, and I even get that the content we've just received is stuff that was in development for months before launch and just needed the finishing touches before it could go live. On the other hand, I also get that this game was rushed out by EA in time for Christmas and as such launched a little before it was ready, and that the teams working on new content contain some people who would be perfectly competent as bughunters. Based on this it seems reasonable, at least to me, to temporarily retask those programmers working on new things to fix bugs in the things we already have instead. Not every problem can be solved by throwing more resources at it, but with the sheer variety of bugs in the game, more people working on them will lead to us seeing some fixes sooner than we would otherwise. I call that a good thing. This is a joke right???? WoWs launch was HORRIBLE. Constant server crashes servers going down during peak hours. The server that the Raids was on was ill equipped and if you wanted to do a raid on a Friday or Saturday night for the first year it WAS IMPOSSIBLE. It was so bad they offered FREE GUILD TRANSFERS because of it. You have to be absoulutly INSANE to think WoW didn't launch with serious bugs or the bugs were no where near as bad as SWTOR. SWTOR launch makes WoWs launch look like amature hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrVayne Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 This is a joke right???? WoWs launch was HORRIBLE. Constant server crashes servers going down during peak hours. The server that the Raids was on was ill equipped and if you wanted to do a raid on a Friday or Saturday night for the first year it WAS IMPOSSIBLE. It was so bad they offered FREE GUILD TRANSFERS because of it. You have to be absoulutly INSANE to think WoW didn't launch with serious bugs or the bugs were no where near as bad as SWTOR. SWTOR launch makes WoWs launch look like amature hour. Issues caused by insufficient hardware are not the same as software bugs. Everything you're referring to there was a hardware issue. As others have noted earlier, Blizzard were unprepared for just how massively popular WoW was going to be, and the game suffered at launch because of this. Also, while I didn't play WoW at launch I was raiding within the first year, on Friday and Saturday evenings and I did not experience any raid server issues like the ones you're describing, or any server issues at all from when I started playing, a few months after launch. Finally, WoW's launch WAS amateur hour - no other MMO launched at the time had gained subscribers anywhere near as fast. With 7 more years of watching successful and unsuccessful MMO launches to draw on, not to mention a budget far far greater than WoW's launch had, it's no surprise that from a technical standpoint TOR has had a smooth launch without the kind of hardware issues WoW had. What is a surprise is the vast number of software issues, many of which were noticed in beta but are still present in live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amyas Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I agree I do not want this game to end up like warhammer online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Issues caused by insufficient hardware are not the same as software bugs. Everything you're referring to there was a hardware issue. As others have noted earlier, Blizzard were unprepared for just how massively popular WoW was going to be, and the game suffered at launch because of this. Also, while I didn't play WoW at launch I was raiding within the first year, on Friday and Saturday evenings and I did not experience any raid server issues like the ones you're describing, or any server issues at all from when I started playing, a few months after launch. Finally, WoW's launch WAS amateur hour - no other MMO launched at the time had gained subscribers anywhere near as fast. With 7 more years of watching successful and unsuccessful MMO launches to draw on, not to mention a budget far far greater than WoW's launch had, it's no surprise that from a technical standpoint TOR has had a smooth launch without the kind of hardware issues WoW had. What is a surprise is the vast number of software issues, many of which were noticed in beta but are still present in live. look at the patch notes they had FAR more bugs and some of them were game breaking bugs. It wasn't just hardware issues. They even had performance issues on high end rigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyons Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 What if.. They released new content and fixed bugs at the same time :eek: Inconceivable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Please don't release or work on any new content until the current problems are roughly 100% fixed. Thanks. 2 different teams. L2MMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtrick Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The point isn't "WoW released a content patch at its 1st month", it's "WoW didn't launch with anywhere near as many serious bugs as TOR has when they started releasing content". All I can say to this is that you obviously weren't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinchy_ Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Shocked I can still post here without a subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drallbait Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 They are separate development teams, and we know they have content in the pipeline already so there is no point not polishing it for release as planned. Maybe you should learn to run a huge software development team or two before you pretend to tell Bioware what to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I don't understand how the launch of an MMO 7 years ago when, let's face it, people's expectations were a lot lower and there was a lot less competition in the MMO marketplace (and it was a lot easier to differentiate your MMO from the competition) is relevant to the launch of an MMO today, in the current MMO market place. Or, to put it simply, when WoW launched it wasn't competing against itself with an extra 7 years of development. Well you got that right. All the people who started with Wow at 5 years old (not wow at 5 years, but the actual children that played it were 5 years old) are now 12 years old and expect everything NOW NOW NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeonWeapon Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 There will always be bugs... new content, more UI options, and more features are needed badly, or this game will get old real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertydood Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The fact that there are multiple teams just makes it more embarrassing that BioWare hasn't fixed anything. If they have a team devoting to fixing bugs, what on earth have they been doing? Because it clearly doesn't involve fixing bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossesman Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 They can always do both, i heard they have a team focusing on fixing bugs and another team which focuses on new content. I agree to an extent they should focus a bit more on fixing the bugs but theres no reason that they cant introduce new content aswell. Besides, no matter what happens, people will complain. If you fix all the bugs, people will complain about the lack of content. If you introduce new content, people will complain about the lack of bug fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tek_Coronado Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Besides, no matter what happens, people will complain. If you fix all the bugs, people will complain about the lack of content. If you introduce new content, people will complain about the lack of bug fixing. Truer words have never been spoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhaas Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yes, that is how game design works. It's also true that not everyone involved in creating new content would even be able to contribute to bug fixes - the writers, the people who create new art assets, etc. At the same time, there are coders and devs working on the new content who COULD be fixing bugs instead, and right now this game needs those bugs sorted a lot more than it needs new content, even if it does slow down the content delivery cycle further down the line. No MMO is ever going to tell their content team, 'Hey guys, take the rest of the week off your current project and get your butts over to the bug department. We know that the guys over there have already laid out a flow chart and are each currently busting their humps to fix all the bugs and don't really need you getting in the way, not to mention the fact that we have a schedule we need to meet for content and we shouldn't really stop you guys from doing that, but the players feel they know what's best for our company and we're going to do everything because THEY see it that way okay..thanks,'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriki Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I think this would be great too, except the fact that new content and bug teams are totally different people. If it is a choice between fix and new, please go fix. But if they are like any other house they are both fixing and making new stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhillegass Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 There's a list of wonderful fixes available via the patch notes. The new ones that snuck in have easy workarounds. The community cried for new content, they gave it to You, you cry louder. Today's community is never satisfied and so needy. Learn to be patient. Yesterday's patch was a huge step forward for those enjoying the game. There's a difference between constructive criticism and spewing lies on the forums (ie bioware won't let you cancel to take your money). There's a reason you are on these forums and not a developer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditboo Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yeah! Pull your artists, story-writers, level designers off their content projects, and put them on debugging! That is a fantastic idea! Please BW, listen to our community that daily drops such pearls of wisdom on you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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