Yeah likewise lol... guess we're "lazy"... I think touchbass has been actively compiling posts and links from that thread though, so maybe he'll come through for us.

Good idea actually lol "Refer to rebuttal 24, subsection IV, paragraph 3"

In before the trolls Touch, do us the honor, compile a post with all the good points in our argument, all the links and stuff, I know you've been gathering them. Blue or I can copy it and edit our posts to make sure it's on page one, or better yet we can get Malign to do it, since he got first post.

You can watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04cF1m6Jxu8 more fun than the not-teaming of TOR

Come visit my pigs, because I'm tired of listening to this flock of sheep bleating

I prefer to use my time productively, when I feel it's being wasted, I do something else. If I'm not having fun with my game time, I log out. For the last week I have refused to spend mroe than 15 minutes looking for a team, I log in, ask for 15 minutes for a team, and only one day did I get lucky and find one, for the other 8 of the last 9 days I didnt' find anything in 15 minutes, I logged out and did something else. I'm not playing TOR lately. And if they don't have an easy way for me to find a team after the 2 months I payed for already runs out, I won't be renewing.

"Path of self destruction" hm? I would say that path is to have the majority of players unable to access a large portion of the content, and quitting as a result. Endgame content is meant to keep us interested in playing beyond max level, so we don't go "ok I beat the game" and leave. It is not meant to be accessible only to those who are in the top guilds and have time all day. It is meant to give us something to do at end game, and if the larger "casual" population with limited game time can't get into that content, then we have nothing to do at end game and the effect of keeping us interested at endgame is lost on us, then we get bored and quit. There goes the large profits from casual gamers that would go into rolling out more content for casual and hardcore alike. You see, you do have a vested interest in keeping casuals happy too... because they will feed profits to the game you play and that will lead to more improvements for you too. You're being shortsighted.

These last few pages have felt like ignoring the baby crying until he tires himself out and stops. When it gets quiet I'll just check to make sure they're not sleeping on their stomachs.

Not about the loot, want to play... Just want to play. I play for fun, not for loot. Yes I want a push button, get team option. Yep.

Bold extrapolation. No, I won't be asking for easy, i don't want easy. I don't mind dying in the game, because I'm not some soccer-mom-raised participation-trophy-earning whiney kid who never learned to that you can have fun in a game whether you win or lose. I just want to be able to play without wasting alot of time trying to get started playing. If I lose, I still had fun playing. The problem with you people is you refuse to team with anyone who isn't already geared with the content drops and done that raid 1000 times already, so the rest of us who want to experience the content are left out. If it's not a guaranteed win, you don't want to play, then you cry and abuse less experienced players who are less experienced because you leave them out. Personally, i would rather team with people who are at the normal stage of wanting to experience the content for the first few times, are equipped at the starting level of equipment for that instance, and are experiencing it with me, rather than you people who have done it 100 times already and think you're too good to help out they guy who's trying to get a start on that content. I want this tool to circumvent the elitists claimed authority to decide who "deserves" to play that content. And that infuriates you because you lose your fascist control over whether or not others get to have fun.

We don't want easy content, we want easy, fast methods for getting a team together, on any server, at any time... stay on topic. You people are way off in god knows what tangent.

I'm demanding the tool because I don't have the time to waste an hour getting a team together. Has nothing to do with content difficulty or any of the other nonsense you people are talking about for the last couple pages. It's about real life time, and that's it. If I have 2 hours a day to play, I want no more than 15 minutes of it spent getting into a team to play. Since you're unable to understand what it's like in another person's shoes, I say: get a job, then you'll be in my shoes and you'll want this too.

Yeah ok, my arguments are whining... and your posts are meaningless bashing, and attacks based in nonsense, which is why I stopped reading any lengthy post by you 5 pages ago. You saying "you should have joined a high pop server is complete BS and you know it. During early access, we were all joining full servers and waiting in queue, there was no way to know if our server was going to be one of the ones with a large drop off in population. You're just making yourself look like a fool making arguments that hold no basis in reality, then following up with insults when you're shot down for making no sense. Move along boy, you can't handle my kung fu.

To avoid repeating myself, here's a quote of what I said to the last person who told me this "your fault for being on a low pop server" nonsense...

Already happens... next case?

This MAY be true... But you know what? This is a very much preferable type of boredom to the kind of boredom we have now. I would rather have many, many fun, fulfilling group experiences running all the content in the game, and become bored because I did it all alot, then be bored of the game entirely because I CAN'T get into teams to enjoy any of those group experiences. The first kind of boredom, the "did it all" kind of boredom, won't make me quit the game, I'll stay and play new content as it's added (hopefully frequently), and have incentive to play alts because those characters would have access to all the game content with an LFG tool. The second type of boredom, the "I can't play this game beyond this point and I feel stuck where I am" kind of boredom, WILL cause me to quit, because I don't feel the need to keep paying for a service I can't use to the fullest. Incoming metaphor: It's better to be tired after stuffing yourself with a large fulfilling meal than to be tired because you're starving and can't get any food.

I played DDO too, and although that system was decent, it only worked well because there were so many people online on the same server in that game. It wouldn't work well here. And one thing that sucked about DDO is, sure there were groups you could join, but if you were looking for a certain quest at a certain level, you often could not find it. If you were looking to do just any quest, then it was easy. The game supported that LFG feature by making every quest replayable, sharable and scalable to various levels of difficulty also, so there was reason for joining quests you've already done. That was a very differnt situation with alot of supporting factors besides the LFG tool itself. TOR does not have those supporting factors and incentives to party up or to redo missions (you can't redo a mission you've already done, you're ineligable.) Dungeons and dragons is all about being in a party, and the online version supports that. TOR is designed to be solo friendly to the point that it not only has little encouragement and incentive to team up, but it actually discourages teaming in many ways.

Hell, at this point I would be perfectly fine with them just stealing one from somewhere, then refining or reworking it later... just throw something in there for us to work with. Even a crap tool would be better than no tool. And the faster it gets in, the better... they need to take some shortcuts and get it in... it was a huge mistake to launch without it, and now they have to work double time to make up for lost time.

They have the remaining 54 days I already payed for to get this in. If they have any sense they'll make it number one priority and have it in the game within the next few weeks. I'm not even playing right now, the time I payed for is just ticking away. I'm basically paying for forum posting rights at this point. Already decided the game in it's current state is not a worthwhile use of my time, and that I won't be playing much at all, and that I definitely won't be renewing, until an LFG tool is available. And even if they do get it in but don't make it cross server so it still sucks, I may still quit. It's very bad business to have paying customers unable to use the product they're paying for in the way they wish to. Can't find teams worth a damn for pve, and pvp is so busted it's just sad. What am I going to do, grind more boring, uninteresting endgame daily repeatable solo missions which take a couple hours per day? No thanks, that only held some enjoyment for about 5 days.

I've heard so many iterations of this "zomg lazy n00b cazul u dun need it, get guild lolz, imma uber l33t" condescending nonsense... at this point I can only think of one response I want to give after repeating so many sound arguments in response to this crapload: [response] *Nod* Uh-huh, yeah [/response]

Yeah and if you showed a cell phone to someone in the 1400s they would have burned you for practicing witchcraft. Primitive minds evolve and progress with time... look forward and move forward... and don't hold the rest of us back.

Thank you so much for posting this, in one post you just completely debunked every single post from the anti-LFG camp saying nonsense things like "ask Blizzard what they think their biggest mistake was and they'll say it was the LFD tool", and you also likely just obliterated anyone's argument that these tools killed WoW.

Simply put, those people are anti-progressives, and if they have their way, they will hold back MMOs from the next stage of evolution. Like I said in my last post, the ultimate goal of a massive multiplayer online game is to have the entire community able to interact in one massive world. Technology limits that, but MMO developers are finding ways around these limitations, and that's awesome, it's a step in the direction of having a truly massive world, with the player base no longer separated, but fully interacting in the same world. In every stage of technological progress there were people who were afraid of change and tried to hold back progress... don't listen to the Luddites!

The only reason why games have the player population separated into servers is because current computer technology cannot easily support having all players in the same world. The ultimate evolutionary goal of the MMO world is to eventually have all players able to interact in one massive online world, forming one massive community and all interacting with eachother. The reason for having different servers is not to spread out the player base and to keep us segregated into small groups just for the sake of itself. It is purely a technological limitation.

EDIT: I covered a few topics in this post, so I labeled the paragraphs with their topics for the "TL;DRs" Comparison to the teaming systems in City of Heroes: I disagree with you Touch, saying that team content during leveling doesn't work. Maybe in WoW they separated the experience into solo leveling vs. grouped up end game, but not all games are like this. In some games you can easily run with a team through most of the leveling content. Like I've said before, it depends on the game. In City of Heroes (I know I always talk about CoH), I have leveled entire characters from 1 to 50 playing with a team 95% of the time. Because the game encourages team play with simple systems for people of any level to team together, for sharing quests, for no-dispute looting, and with tons of incentive to play with a team. That game is soloable, but except for the people who just hate teaming in any game, there's no reason for anyone to opt for soloing if they prefer team play. The structure allows team players to always play in a team. There is nothing to make team players say "it's too much of a pain in the *** to team up, so even though I would rather be running with a team right now, I'll just settle for soloing". Team content in that game at all level brackets is available, doable, fun, and profitable. [City of Heroes is alive and active still after 7 years running.] Team players like to team for everything (and Anarchy Online comparison): I think having tons of team content throughout TOR at all levels is a great idea, the problem is that the structure of the game does not support that content. I'm such a team player that I would love to see the game consist of all team content, but, unlike some people, I'm not going to try to force others to play my way. In Anarchy Online, the MMO I played most before CoH, virtually everything was done in team for one rather hardcore reason... most of the game couldn't be survived without a team. Again, that's kind of forcing people to group up, but as a team player, I personally loved it. Not that I'm saying that it should go that way in TOR, but incentives like in CoH would be great. Not to mention that in Anarchy Online, most of the game was spent in the "leveling phase", max level was 220 and those levels took a while to get. If you separated the game experience into solo leveling vs. endgame team play, you would be spending a very long time playing solo. [Anarchy Online is alive and active still after 9 years running.] LFG tool would make possible much more team play, not just for end game, and not just for FPs/Ops: An LFG tool I believe would make team content at all levels and at endgame much more accessible. Since there are limited players online on one server, on the same planet, who have the same missions in their mission log, it would be awesome if the LFG tool worked cross server to team up for the heroics on all planets also, not just flashpoints and ops, opening up access to much more available players to team up with to do these missions. At least for the indoor instanced heroics, I understand it would be hard to do that with the outdoor missions on the world map. If the options were available I would even use the team tool to find people to share all the normal "solo" missions with too. I think any mission where you enter an instance through a "green door", "solo" or "heroic", should be sharable cross server. I would do everything with a team. It would be great if more of the missions were instanced to allow for cross server mission sharing. Cross-server open world PvP: And on a another note: I don't think anyone would really disagree with this idea... Cross server open-world PvP zones would be awesome as hell. There would be more people involved, and better chance of balanced sides. They could make them instanced with pre-formed ops groups through the LFG tool, with equal players on each side, and just have a free for all war for as long as those teams hold together, filling in the gaps in the teams as people leave. You might see a war last for a week lol. (Especially if they add objectives.) More team play = Much more socializing: For the "don't kill community" crowd... how would any of this, any system that encourages people to solo less and group up more, result in less socializing? The way I see it, more team play = more socializing. (I absolutely want cross server friends list and cross server chat to go with the LFG tool too.) There's my essay post for today. 55 days of payed game time left, 8 days of it wasted with me unable to play the endgame content I want to play. 55 days left to make the LFG tool available and keep me subscribed to this game. To all the people trying to take LFG tool away from me: Leggo my Eggo!