You took too long with Warzone Brackets

[Hoodlumpriest]

If they had waited a while for lots of folks to ding 50 BEFORE allowing access to epic pvp gear then the brackets would have not been required as much.

 

Allowing the rushers to outlevel and outgear everyone else made it an instant requirement.

 

So much wrong so soon does not bode well.

[bowtec]

i think maybe the answer would be to create more war zones and delute the 50's.or give toons the option to not enter with 50's.sounds pretty simple.

[bowtec]

yeah realy just lvl up and kick but lol.im having a blast at lvl 35!!you cant win them all.

[dnomz]

I love how many people are nerd raging when people criticize this game. Especially in this PvP forum.

 

I think we are dealing with no life people here who were level 50 during Early Access and have been farming like no life ever since in Warzones. Probably the same people that think it's neccessary to make a premade for the no-bracket Warzones only to faceroll on level 12s.

 

OP has a point. If you fail to see it, you are just an ignorant piece of

[-Roidrage-]

im quiting also fail game

[Stuckov]

Yeah or just disabled expertise til they were ready. Said, sorry this stat will mean nothing until we introduce brackets, but as soon as we do we will activate it.

 

Not exactly difficult to do.

 

Allowing a small minority of players to roflstomp over everyone else is a sure indication that the company does not give a hoot about you. All they want is your money, they don't care about your playtime or whether you are having fun.

 

Just give us your money, hey come on, its star wars!

 

And I bet you would be first to complain about all those 50s with the ALREADY CHAMPION gear which is about to be activated have an advantage over new 50s that just got to start getting the gear... I dont get how EVERYONE is entitled to be top dog these days lol. You want top dog title u got to work for it just stop complaining.

[Stuckov]

I love how many people are nerd raging when people criticize this game. Especially in this PvP forum.

 

I think we are dealing with no life people here who were level 50 during Early Access and have been farming like no life ever since in Warzones. Probably the same people that think it's neccessary to make a premade for the no-bracket Warzones only to faceroll on level 12s.

 

OP has a point. If you fail to see it, you are just an ignorant piece of

 

What I personally fail to see is why it is a problem that some people are better/play more/ have more time to spend on the game/ are nerds with no life. There is this growing group of self entitled kids and old gamers too because all the WOW kids grew up now that require the same advantages that someone with more time on their hands has. If you were a PVEr would u ***** about the 50s being able to do Hardmodes and getting all that Rakata Gear before you because u are lvl 40? if they removed Expertise... like you guys have mentioned above what you would have is the PVEers with the Rakata gear coming and ****** you all and then youd complain about that lol. Just pathetic sense of entitlement. I want it and I dont care that I didnt work for it I should have the same advantages that that guy who worked for it and spent more time in it.

[VonSoot]

cry babies.

[SirMoobs]

cry babies.

 

Agreed.

[Dravinian]

What I personally fail to see is why it is a problem that some people are better/play more/ have more time to spend on the game/ are nerds with no life. There is this growing group of self entitled kids and old gamers too because all the WOW kids grew up now that require the same advantages that someone with more time on their hands has. If you were a PVEr would u ***** about the 50s being able to do Hardmodes and getting all that Rakata Gear before you because u are lvl 40? if they removed Expertise... like you guys have mentioned above what you would have is the PVEers with the Rakata gear coming and ****** you all and then youd complain about that lol. Just pathetic sense of entitlement. I want it and I dont care that I didnt work for it I should have the same advantages that that guy who worked for it and spent more time in it.

 

This logic doesn't even apply to this complaint.

 

You just want to pretend that somehow people have earnt being able to face roll others in the game.

 

My complaint is about Bioware's failure to react to an issue in the game that was detrimental to a very large number of their playerbase.

 

There is no denial from you of the issue, just a rather weak argument that somehow having a longer Xmas break or wanting to rush through the game gives you an entitlement to faceroll others.

 

See what I did there? I turned your logic back on you, what makes you any less self entitled for thinking that you should be able to face roll people?

[DarthOvertone]

It is about highlighting the treatment that Bioware gave to their customers.

 

And exactly how did they treat you? Did BW force your toon to play WZs? When you noticed something was a bit off and you were getting spanked by geared 50s, did you elect to level up your character and then enter the WZs when you were stronger?

 

In the end, BW made a poor decision, sure. But they didn't treat anyone bad. There was plenty else to do other than WZs in the game, especially if you were leveling.

 

Not to mention that I think they reacted fairly quickly with a lot of the changes. Changes like those coming in 1.1 would take months in other MMOs, especially for stuff like PvP content that always seems to be secondary to everything else.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[Lyability]

If they were going to level the brackets as they were they shouldn't have introduced any PvP gear until they made a 50 only bracket. 50s arent an issue. The fully geared expertise 50s are.

 

There is so much wisdom in this post.

 

Too bad BW didn't have any of this wisdom before they ****ed up Warzones.

[Gratus_Mortuus]

There is so much wisdom in this post.

 

Too bad BW didn't have any of this wisdom before they ****ed up Warzones.

 

Seriously, is there any sign at all that PvP is understood or cared very much about in this game? I don't think so. I think this is a PvE game first and foremost.

 

-Gratus

[Anatharion]

I'm very good at spotting game trends, and how games work, and how gamers will react to certain game play design issues. The Poster who said what will hurt Bioware more that a few people that benefitted from hundreds of hours of pure rofl stomping joy from the Expertise or the Tens of thousands that got owned for hundreds of hours before the lvl 50 pvp brackets were put in place was very right.

 

As it stands I bet Bioware will lose about 20% of its subs for SWTOR just for this fact alone during the first month. Bioware cannot get the lvl 50 Brackets in fast enough if they want to stop this kind of hemmorhage of their player base.

 

Also Ilum is ridiculous. I can't even believe that any game designers that played the daily quest on Ilum didn't think, "Omg what have we done, this is the most ridiculous excuse for a pvp warzone ever created. We have totally failed on creating a PVP environment that will entice the two factions to fight one another. Instead we have created a space where people will go, shoot their rockets, and then leave in boredom. This endgame for PVP'ers will also probably cause another 10% of lost subs.

 

Bioware has three months to fix these things. If not they will probably lose about 40% of their player subs maybe more because of the state of PVP endgame.

 

This game is amazing. Levlling, story, crafting, are all super fun. Great tools for guilds, and parties. But these are critical changes that must be made and fast. Bioware has promised us changes I'm ready to wait and see what they are.

 

Anatax lvl 50 Scoundrel

[IvamAkorahil]

Bioware showed utter contempt for their casual players by leaving out brackets at launch and then not putting them in for a month.

 

 

the point is that if they would not have done that the first lvl 50 players would have had horrendous queues, and iam not sure if there are quite enough 50s yet to sustain short queuetimes after 1.1

 

the system worked very well and had a quite good idea behind it.

 

but well, the power of thought is only given to small percentage of the worlds population. Trying to grasp a principle before crying it to the ground is hard for some.

 

one way or the other people would have complained, now they complain" ahh too hard i face lvl 50s!" other would be " lvl 50s have 1h wait time for wz's" you can just never hit it right with 90% of those customers who build an annoying, impatient and brainless mob

[Zaskaszh]

Seriously, is there any sign at all that PvP is understood or cared very much about in this game? I don't think so. I think this is a PvE game first and foremost.

 

-Gratus

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Jeebus people, figure it out already!

[Jooji]

Bioware showed utter contempt for their casual players by leaving out brackets at launch and then not putting them in for a month.

 

 

Casuals dont come to the forums crying.

[ChickenWangs]

Easier solution.

 

Cancel sub and move on. Only here cause I paid for the forum, might as well use it.

 

See it's people like you that make me never want to go to these forums. You cry about something, but instead you don't give Bioware advice, you sit there and criticize them. No MMO is perfect upon launch and it requires some amount of fixing. A month into an MMO is not a long time. Also you probably are terrible at PVP making this whole thread invalid. Get out of your basement, make some friends, and take them to go win at PVP.

[Dravinian]

And exactly how did they treat you? Did BW force your toon to play WZs? When you noticed something was a bit off and you were getting spanked by geared 50s, did you elect to level up your character and then enter the WZs when you were stronger?

 

In the end, BW made a poor decision, sure. But they didn't treat anyone bad. There was plenty else to do other than WZs in the game, especially if you were leveling.

 

Not to mention that I think they reacted fairly quickly with a lot of the changes. Changes like those coming in 1.1 would take months in other MMOs, especially for stuff like PvP content that always seems to be secondary to everything else.

 

That is a bit like arguing that when paying to enter a "nightclub" they serve drinks that are horrible and make you vomit....did anyone FORCE you to drink in the nightclub?

 

People had legitimate expectations of PvP, not only through common MMORPGs but through Biowares OWN GAME. It invites you to play at level 10.

 

Just as you have a legitimate expectation when going to a nightclub to have a drink once inside.

 

To invite you to do something, which you paid for, and then treat you like rubbish by allowing a system to remain in place for this long that is detrimental to you as a consumer is definitely worth complaining about.

 

Your argument is full of fail.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Paralassa
content quote

[Tarkastio]

Problem... there's not enough 50s to make a game. How was the 50 at the beginning of the game's release (and even on some smaller servers now) going to be able to grind to rank 60 if there is no activity? Make a new character, grind BGs from 10 through 49 and hope they hit rank 60 before they hit level cap?

 

2nd post holds true.

[Dravinian]

See it's people like you that make me never want to go to these forums. You cry about something, but instead you don't give Bioware advice, you sit there and criticize them. No MMO is perfect upon launch and it requires some amount of fixing. A month into an MMO is not a long time. Also you probably are terrible at PVP making this whole thread invalid. Get out of your basement, make some friends, and take them to go win at PVP.

 

I have given consistently the same advice through-out this thread and I have given it previous to this thread.

 

But I suppose you know every post by every poster? That is what gives you the right to make claims about what I have posted right, why else would you make such claims unless you had read every single post I had made?

 

I made the suggestion 2 weeks ago.

 

Disable expertise. That is all, just disable it for a couple of weeks, give enough people a chance to get to level 50, and then introduce brackets and reintroduce expertise.

 

Without expertise the bolster system is good enough for level 10s to face level 50s.

 

But of course, you know better, having read all my posts, I have never posted this solution.

[Dravinian]

2nd post holds true.

 

The fact is that if there is not enough 50s, then why should we suffer a system that suits them and not the majority that are not level 50?

 

The argument is harsh, but if you have a choice, upset a few or upset many, why would you pick the choice that upsets the many?

 

And if you do take that choice, why shouldn't I and everyone else like me stand up and say....hold a minute, why are you hurting the majority instead of the small number of people? How does this bode for the future of the game and how does it reflect on your attitude as a design/development team?

 

Which is exactly what I have done.

 

Stated that this choice does not bode well for the future of the game, since Bioware are willing to allow whatever exists, regardless of how many it hurts, to continue for far too long before they do anything about it.

 

That to me isn't good enough, and this thread is a testament to that point.

[Spuck]

I have a pretty simple solution to this issue that would help a lot but my Bork things later on. Why not just introduce lower lvl pvp gear? IE a lvl 20 set and a lvl 40 set The complete 20 set would take you to say 125-150 expertise and the complete 40 set would take you to 225 or 250. This would make a huge difference and they could be bought with normal commendations for fairly reasonable prices.

 

This would allow people to have some kind of progression within pvp as opposed to being held back until 50 to even have a shot at gear.

 

I'm going to go ahead and say something a lot of other people (especially some 50's) won't say. Yes we like killing lvl 11's in pvp, it's absolutely awesome to roll over your opponents so hard they /ragequit.

 

That being said, it sucks when the same thing happens to us. Even playing as a 50 premade we occasionally get rolled. The difference is, you won't see us or other legit pvpers whine and cry about it. We all know that famous saying, "You can't win them all" is very true. If you can't cope with that in a game I don't understand how you handle real life.

 

This is all coming from someone who got the game Dec 29th, pvped extensively pre-50, is 50 and has 400+ expertise

 

That's just it. It wouldn't be "introduced" but RE-introduced. They had it in beta.

[Pappus]

Bioware showed utter contempt for their casual players by leaving out brackets at launch and then not putting them in for a month.

 

You showed a total disregard for your player base, opting to allow them to be farmed by level 50s in far superior gear while you sat on your hands and did nothing.

 

The excuse that there weren't enough level 50s was not good enough. You had other options, you could have disabled Expertise in PvP and told those at 50 it will be reinstated in a month along with brackets, but you didn't.

 

You did nothing.

 

This is why I will not resub.

 

The rest of the game, it can be fixed, eventually, should you get around to it.

 

Your attitude towards your paying customers is much harder to fix.

 

If it was just expertise, then popping an overcharge stim to fight a level 50 would lead to their destruction getting you 5% higher then they are. The main reason the 50's squat you is their mainstat is 1500+ compared to your 1k, their 16k hp vs your 12k. That difference alone is more then 10% and we ar enot even incorporating talent skills.

[Dravinian]

If it was just expertise, then popping an overcharge stim to fight a level 50 would lead to their destruction getting you 5% higher then they are. The main reason the 50's squat you is their mainstat is 1500+ compared to your 1k, their 16k hp vs your 12k. That difference alone is more then 10% and we ar enot even incorporating talent skills.

 

I don't think that is all mate, a 4k difference in HP, is not a lot, it is a lot when you add in damage reduction and a damage increase.

 

When you both doing pretty similar damage and taking pretty similar damage the small advantage from gear....while still an advantage.....is surmountable.

 

This is an MMORPG, I am not asking for equality, I am saying that a design issue that gives a significant advantage to a class that already has a gear advantage is a failure, and the failure to do anything about it says alot about the company involved.