Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Haha...If BW was a 12 man project with a guy with 'button control' who could make snap decisions, I'm sure you are right.... But bioware is over 500 employees working on this project and i bet the red tape to get resolutions approved after a dozen meetings to determine what would be the best course of action and if they should wait and put in a better resolution, or pander to panic stricken doom sayers with one of the worse ideas for a fix in a long time. Sadly the votes went the 'bandaid on a sucking chest wound' theory, and so they pandered to you panic stricken doom sayers instead. This 'fix' will just bring us down a twisting rabbit hole we should never have to go down agian, but we can thank you and your ilk for it....good job. So it is my fault that they implemented a broken PvP system with an untested expertise system in place (re above beta tester comments). Ahh of course, couldn't possibly accept that Bioware are to blame, then you might have to acknowledge that and possibly, if you are a man of principle, take action on it. Better to shove your head in the sand and pretend it is the players fault. I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Not all that reassuring you know? It just is what it is....like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes I'm sure that would have gone over much better on the forums. Genius. It would have affected a tiny minority and as that minority grew the change could have been reversed with brackets. Most mature people would have understood that, most avid PvPers would have accepted it and enjoyed the actual even matches instead of a stupid imbalance. Again, the problem with Brackets early? Not enough 50s.....but god forbid we upset that tiny few that can't even fill a warzone by taking away their massive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) No your not right. I know you love to self gloat. I've been providing feedback on this game for a year. They ignored us in beta for 50 brackets and theyre taking their time now to implement it. I'm right and you agree with me. Yes, you are right, and I do agree with you.... so how can I be "not right" LoL.... Again because you're stuck on gear in relation to skill. If your having problems competing because youre level 40 fighting another level 40 who is in pvp gear and beating up but youre wearing level 20 greens it is not a gear issue. Its a skill issue. This example shows a stupid player. Nice analogy, which shows you're not grasping the situation at all. This isn't about two players with equal chance to win, and one losing because he's too "stupid" to get the right gear... this is a game taking a player who has played litterally hundreds of matches, has a much higher level, more skills and 100x better gear, and putting that player into a match against a new player 30 levels lower and handing that higher level player easy wins, more XP, and better and better gear while he farms low level players who have no chance, while putting in almost no effort at all. The lower level player has litterally no other choice but to PvP in this way. Somewhere in that mix of bad game design you blame the lower level player??? Get real. You want an additional bracket for skill based on who has what gear to compete with? ***? How is this not about gear with you. MMOs revolve around progression and gear. Skill gets you both of those I have no clue what you're talking about. I NEVER asked for any type of gear change at all. How about you find a thread about gear and go post there? Edited January 17, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teksun Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I wonder how many complaining about brackets are also the ones who like to go to low level planets and gank. Oh yeah, can I have your stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borkbork Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I was reading through the pages on the OPs whiner thread and stopped here because this should be copied and pasted onto every whiner thread out there. I agree with this totally. Then again it took WAR two years to die when BW listened to the L33t PVP:ers and let the gap between the majority of it's paying customers and the top 5% become to large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 We can see the problem simply on paper, with any testing needed. That is the problem. This is not some mysterious issue that was masked until hours upon hours of testing. Look at the forums, such complaints arose with in the first few days of gameplay -- not weeks. And again, we have seen enough precedent in OTHER mmos, to know that these decisions would have these results. Hehe, seriously, there is no good answer if you are reading the forums. Forums is where people come to cry and complain about everything. There is no quiet happy forums, there is always crying and complaining about EVERYTHING. Trying to sort thru what has value and what doesn't is amazingly complex on its own right. Also, as they have openly admitted in there own posts, they really did not think PvP was going to be a significant part of this game. Look at there PvP Lead, he is also the guy who does all there dungeons, so clearly we know where he focuses his real job...since he was the dungeon guy for WAR as well and was a top 10 raider in WoW, so we can see where his design models come from. Also, much of what they borrowed was from WoW's playbook, so a clash of borrowed with what they tried to innovate is the real problem. Simply being 50 does not give you a win in PvP, but expertise and the like does, and they brought that into the game last second before release so its impact went largely untested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1) Get to 50. 2) The game was released a month ago, chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltab Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Easier solution. Cancel sub and move on. Only here cause I paid for the forum, might as well use it. What? Anyone can read these forums so you didn't pay for them. It's people like this I'm glad that don't resub bioware says have to build up rivalrys at the start of a fresh game let's put every level together, now that the fans have said hey this isn't working anymore they change it and people still cry. Why is that are they sad because the devs listen to the fans for once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeylemons Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 suck it up, these forums are littered with QQers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Whiner down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 So it is my fault that they implemented a broken PvP system with an untested expertise system in place (re above beta tester comments). Ahh of course, couldn't possibly accept that Bioware are to blame, then you might have to acknowledge that and possibly, if you are a man of principle, take action on it. Better to shove your head in the sand and pretend it is the players fault. I understand. Haha, no...but to say 'they took long to fix it' is silly. No, WAR took to long to 'fix it' when they decided to nerf the Bright Wizard a year after game release and then nerfed all the other classes too, so the Bright Wizard was still 'I win' broken...No THAT is to late. A month after release has never been, nor will ever be, to long in the MMO genre. To bad the 'fix' you so desire will cause more problems then it will fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicSaint Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Problem... there's not enough 50s to make a game. How was the 50 at the beginning of the game's release (and even on some smaller servers now) going to be able to grind to rank 60 if there is no activity? Make a new character, grind BGs from 10 through 49 and hope they hit rank 60 before they hit level cap? Here is the backlash for going the route that you endorse. Now you have less people that will stick around until they hit 50 because their experience has been one of being blown up in WZ's. You made the Alpha gamer happy by providing them with easy favor / max gear rewards but the regular guy feels that warzones are just a long beat down. So what was the smart way to go? The alpha gamer wont go anywhere they live for this so they will stay no matter what and is a minority anyway. The player that just wants to have a fair match and feel like he's got a chance to make a difference gets boned. Bio deserves to lose Subs because they refused to listen to testers and players at early release. When Bio faces fears of a shrinking player base they MAY actually listen to,reply to, communicate with its player base. This unresponsive/unreachable approach that Bio takes with it's customers only alienates the customer and now it 's got so many problems that I wouldn't be surprised if Bio doesn't start thinking about server merges soon. Off Topic. The latest patch that would have addressed the 50's in there own bracket has been delayed. I wonder if it will be ready by the 22'nd of this month? Edited January 17, 2012 by GothicSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) It would have affected a tiny minority and as that minority grew the change could have been reversed with brackets. Most mature people would have understood that, most avid PvPers would have accepted it and enjoyed the actual even matches instead of a stupid imbalance. Again, the problem with Brackets early? Not enough 50s.....but god forbid we upset that tiny few that can't even fill a warzone by taking away their massive advantage. I think you'll find that the population of 50s isn't that tiny, and that MMOs need to cater to end game or else the game will be regarded as a joke. This would be why there are no balance issues for sub 50, you'll notice. Go look at the changes for other games as well and you'll see very few changes that affect sub-max level players. That's because no one cares. *edit* Also, I'm not sure what makes you think that this game is composed of mature players. Edited January 17, 2012 by Scoobings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Simpler Solution: Be a productive member on the forum and offer suggestions and solutions to help assist the issues at hand. Positive insight goes a lot farther then negative demands and self righteous spoiled acts. This man is a like-minded visionary. Kudos sir, kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunsoar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes, you are right. Nice analogy, which shows you're not grasping the situation at all. This isn't about two players with equal chance to win, and one losing because he's too "stupid" to get the right gear... this is a game taking a player who has played litterally hundreds of matches, has a much higher level, more skills and 100x better gear, and putting that player into a match against a new player 30 levels lower and handing that higher level player easy wins, more XP, and better and better gear while he farms low level players who have no chance, while putting in almost no effort at all. The lower level player has litterally no other choice but to PvP REDUNDANCY MOVE ON. We already agree on this issue. Move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurisnoctis Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's called arrogance. They did not listen to the non-fanboy testers during beta very much. They also broke what didn't need fixing with more gear tiers, removing presence as the healing stat, and adding expertise. It's called not being dumb. What warzone would the first few 50s do? There are some servers even now with about 10 or less 50s on one faction. Herp. Derp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swijr Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I agree, getting violated by 500 exp 50s (without a kiss) is no fun. I'm looking forward to the brackets, but I'm not going to quit over them not being there yet. My lvl 47 trooper has 40 valour and I've done a good deal of the story line quests and a lot of PVP. I've been mugged and had my wallet stolen by the Sith quite a few times. I've also been part of a few gang land beat downs. W/e... Just deal with it and work your way up. If you KNOW pvp WZ are full of 50's... don' play in them. The Valour comes quickly, it's not hard to lvl up. Get to 50, pvp, get some gear, rinse and repeat. I still play with my 23 Shadow. In fact, he fares better (in terms of helping to win games) than my trooper does (he's just a path clearer/DPS whore). Am I unsubbing for the lack of brackets currently? No. It's at least acknowledged and will be fixed. Swijr Edited January 17, 2012 by Swijr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPagano Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 people get upset about the dumbest ****. it ceases to amaze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Here is the backlash for going the route that you endorse. Now you have less people that will stick around until they hit 50 because their experience has been one of being blown up in WZ's. You made the Alpha gamer happy by providing them with easy favor / max gear rewards but the regular guy feels that warzones are just a long beat down. So what was the smart way to go? The alpha gamer wont go anywhere they live for this so they will stay no matter what and is a minority anyway. The player that just wants to have a fair match and feel like he's got a chance to make a difference gets boned. Bio deserves to lose Subs because they refused to listen to testers and players at early release. When Bio faces fears of a shrinking player base they MAY actually listen to,reply to, communicate with its player base. This unresponsive/unreachable approach that Bio takes with it's customers only alienates the customer and now it 's got so many problems that I wouldn't be surprised if Bio doesn't start thinking about server merges soon. Off Topic. The latest patch that would have addressed the 50's in there own bracket has been delayed. I wonder if it will be ready by the 22'nd of this month? The "Alpha gamer" isn't happy either because even though he's stoping other sub 50s, he has to carry a team of sub 50s, who are also getting stomped by the other side's level 50. The only people happy and have this crap on farm are pre-mades. Most people don't like the way it's set up right now, including me, but all I'm saying is that I'd rather it was this way than dead ques for the first 3 weeks. Now it has to be changed, and fast. Hopefully, they'll be able to pull this off and whatever problem they found isn't going to delay the patch too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masanis Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 brackets will fix nothing... since all hardcore 50's are already full battlemaster, and will continue to roll everyone who isnt in same gear. I'm hitting 50 tonight and I know that I'm going to regret not having pvp'd more as I leveled. It's going to be rough for the 50s over the next few months who have to face the no life squad in pre-mades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 people get upset about the dumbest ****. it ceases to amaze. If it ceased to amaze you then why are you commenting on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm hitting 50 tonight and I know that I'm going to regret not having pvp'd more as I leveled. It's going to be rough for the 50s over the next few months who have to face the no life squad in pre-mades. I think premades need their own ques more-so than this game needs brackets (although I think they need both.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltab Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Really we are running out of buckets to catch your tears of fail. But really guys you should have looked at a stream by Taugrim where he goes in at lvl 35 with his friends and they whip a lvl 50 team it's not that hard, I myself have done it, I am beginning to think these people are the same who in voidstar run away from the door they are defending to get a kill and when it's ninja capped behind them ***** in ops chat his team sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novok Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It isn't about changing what was done. It is about highlighting the treatment that Bioware gave to their customers. That is more important than valor ranks and the rest of that nonsense you were spouting. MMORPGs are usually long term, I think I played EQ for 7 years and WoW for 6, I played most of the others but they were not that good. If you are going to be spending the next few years ploughing hundreds of pounds into the pockets of a company, it is good to know that the company will not take a big dump on you from a great height unless it has to. Bioware proved they were more than happy to dump on the playerbase, simply because they couldn't be bothered to do anything. Not good enough. Uhh bye, As it ever occured to you that bioware plans all this stuff out? Do you think theyre gonna drop everything theyre doing to get a bracket in quicker when its already planned? Thank god *******es like you are leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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