Spymaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) It's called arrogance. They did not listen to the non-fanboy testers during beta very much. They also broke what didn't need fixing with more gear tiers, removing presence as the healing stat, and adding expertise. This ^ We told them in Beta, they didn't listen. We told them alot of things people are complaining about now, and they didn't listen. Only in the MMO world are customer complaints treated like jokes. It really is arrogance I think, and it's hurting this game the exact same way it hurt SWG. Edited January 17, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I really don't understand what the big deal is? There are so many other things that you can do for the next week or so until they release the patch that puts 50s in their own bracket. If you are really not having fun PVPing, just be patient and DON'T DO IT. It's not like you have to do it to advance in the game. I would much rather BW take their time and release content when its ready than try to rush it out and make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriahheeplol Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) ^This is understandable However, sometimes it's extremely hard to tell the difference between real complaints and trolls. Complaints like this, as valid as the may seem in the OPs perspective, don't seem like things to quit the game over or make a big deal about. But people have their own opinions and ways of doing things, so whatever. I'm just saying, maybe OP should take other aspects of the game into account for enjoyment. I leveled the whole 1-50 without doing a single heroic quest or warzone, and I had a blast! For me it was all about the story, and story is honestly the main focus of the leveling process. Why can't OP try simply leveling the way it was designed to be done, and not complaining about how PVP is imbalanced against 50's....It just doesn't seem like a good reason to complain at all. Edited January 17, 2012 by Uriahheeplol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 This ^ We told them in Beta, they didn't listen. We told them alot of things people are complaining about now, and they didn't listen. It really is arrogance I think, and it's hurting this game the exact same way it hurt SWG. I think it is down to the brand. When you have an existing brand, you can guarantee a certain level of engagement. If this was called....Star Fights: The Ancient Empire. I doubt Bioware would be acting as arrogant as they are, because they would have to build their brand from scratch, they would have to build their community from scratch. They don't don't have to do that with this game, as the brand is already so well known and already has people subscribing as long ago as 3 years simply on the back of previous KOTOR games. This allows Bioware to treat people in a very poor manner, knowing that enough people will continue to subscribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) ^This is understandable However, sometimes it's extremely hard to tell the difference between real complaints and trolls. Complaints like this, as valid as the may seem in the OPs perspective, don't seem like things to quit the game over or make a big deal about. But people have their own opinions and ways of doing things, so whatever. I'm just saying, maybe OP should take other aspects of the game into account for enjoyment. I leveled the whole 1-50 without doing a single heroic quest or warzone, and I had a blast! For me it was all about the story, and story is honestly the main focus of the leveling process. Why can't OP try simply leveling the way it was designed to be done, and not complaining about how PVP is imbalanced against 50's....It just doesn't seem like a good reason to complain at all. Since you're someone who doesn't really seem to care about PvP much, your post seems pretty one sided and ignorant. What happens when he gets to 50 and has no PvP gear against fully decked out player's who've been 50 for two months, who farmed all their gear on easy mode against lower level players and are still killing him with ease? "Waiting will you're 50" is not the solution for casual players. I think it is down to the brand. When you have an existing brand, you can guarantee a certain level of engagement. If this was called....Star Fights: The Ancient Empire. I doubt Bioware would be acting as arrogant as they are, because they would have to build their brand from scratch, they would have to build their community from scratch. They don't don't have to do that with this game, as the brand is already so well known and already has people subscribing as long ago as 3 years simply on the back of previous KOTOR games. This allows Bioware to treat people in a very poor manner, knowing that enough people will continue to subscribe. /agreed If I were making a Star Wars MMO, I'd have at least learned this lesson from SWG. Sadly they didn't seem to heed that warning. Edited January 17, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvang Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Why can't OP try simply leveling the way it was designed to be done, and not complaining about how PVP is imbalanced against 50's....It just doesn't seem like a good reason to complain at all. I will have to disagree with you there. Since BW designed PvP in Warzones to give you experience and also designed the Warzones without brackets, its a clear choice for you, to level up by following this route (along others) during your leveling. The game was not advertised as a "Single player game till 50, then MMORPG!". It is a clear design choice and even that, is not the main complaint of the OP in the end (his opinion and totally entitled to it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arellea Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah or just disabled expertise til they were ready. Said, sorry this stat will mean nothing until we introduce brackets, but as soon as we do we will activate it. Not exactly difficult to do. Allowing a small minority of players to roflstomp over everyone else is a sure indication that the company does not give a hoot about you. All they want is your money, they don't care about your playtime or whether you are having fun. Just give us your money, hey come on, its star wars! Honestly, it wouldn't have mattered. My 50 has good enough gear that even without the edge of expertise I would roflstomp all over non 50's anyway. All the other 50's that are sporting high expertise levels would do the same. The bottom line is that they left one pvp bracket for all of a month so that everyone could actually do pvp. There are now enough 50's to support a separate bracket on most servers and they are implementing one. All the whiners here are getting exactly what they want and are still whining, just proving that they are going to find something to complain about no matter what Good riddance to the whole lot of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 ^This is understandable However, sometimes it's extremely hard to tell the difference between real complaints and trolls. Complaints like this, as valid as the may seem in the OPs perspective, don't seem like things to quit the game over or make a big deal about. But people have their own opinions and ways of doing things, so whatever. I'm just saying, maybe OP should take other aspects of the game into account for enjoyment. I leveled the whole 1-50 without doing a single heroic quest or warzone, and I had a blast! For me it was all about the story, and story is honestly the main focus of the leveling process. Why can't OP try simply leveling the way it was designed to be done, and not complaining about how PVP is imbalanced against 50's....It just doesn't seem like a good reason to complain at all. My complaint isn't really about the failure to put in brackets, it is the underlying attitude of the company that has led to that. For me it is about the attitude of the company towards their playerbase that is the major concern. The bugs and issues with gameplay, the problems with balance, all of that you can expect to be fixed, in time, with a company that respects their playerbase. However, with a company that does not, you have to be concerned about the treatment you will receive in the future. To me that it is far more important than merely brackets. It is the way that Bioware has just simply accepted that a number of their playerbase will be farmed and have taken no proactive action about that. I give you an example why this is a concern, faction balance is pretty bad, Ilum is pretty bad, from the posts on this forum, and it is a problem that Republic face massive odds. Now if we had a company that was proactive about their playerbase, we might expect to see some changes in the future that might aid the republic. As it is, what I expect is that the republic will be farmed by the massive population imbalance with Bioware doing nothing about it. It is an exact mirror of the Warzones problem. That is just one example I can point to today, but over the 12 months of this MMORPG I am sure more will become apparent. I have no trust in the company that they will react to these problems in a positive way to help their playerbase, rather than ignore them and allow "some" of their playerbase to have a diminished playing experience because they can't be bothered to do anything or simply because they don't care because they will be getting loads of money anyway because this is Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarfy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Easier solution. Cancel sub and move on. Only here cause I paid for the forum, might as well use it. You complain to much. Would you also like me to level your toon? Grind out all the Gear for you? You can come in afterwards when i have all the gear and all toons at lvl 50... Im not even 50 yet but you don't see sensible individual complaining do you? Only the children. Some people are spoiled beyond belief. Go back to WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriahheeplol Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Since you're someone who doesn't really seem to care about PvP much, your post seems pretty one sided and ignorant. What happens when he gets to 50 and has no PvP gear against fully decked out player's who've been 50 for two months, who farmed all their gear on easy mode against lower leel players and are still killing him with ease? "Waiting will you're 50" is not the solution for casual players. Sorry if that's how you see it, but that's not the case. PvP is probably the most enjoyable part of this game for me at the moment. If PvP is his focus, then he'll start farming PvP gear. It's not like it's a tough grind to get PvP gear or anything. But you seem to be getting off topic for the sake of arguing. I believe he is quitting due to lowbies getting crushed in PvP. There's no reason that they shouldn't be getting crushed, due to lack of abilities. I'm just saying until a player gets to 50, they shouldn't expect to be powerhouses in PvP, especially if they're pre-50 and queing up solo. Ok Drav, read your above post. Understood, thanks =] Edited January 17, 2012 by Uriahheeplol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netskink Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 errr no, now it's hit 50 and prepare to be farmed by 50's in full expertise gear continuously. level 50's with no expertise gear are as useless as level 10's I am seriously worried about this. I play 6 toons just so I can craft. I am worried that crafting is a waste of time once I reach 50 since I've read that the crafted gear is worse than the gear which you can buy. Also, I worry that once I do reach 50 it will be a campfest. I don't mind paying my dues, but once I reach 50 I am not sure I can stand doing it all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgodsill Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm just happy people like you are quitting. I just hope you stay away and don't come back to ask for dumb changes and nerfs. Bye now. Agreed. I love how people are ******** blood over a month old game. I never played Vanilla WoW but my buddy said it was a lot more screwed up than SWtoR. Given Bioware's track record of producing amazing games, I'm positive in a few months a lot of the problems will be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I believe he is quitting due to lowbies getting crushed in PvP. There's no reason that they shouldn't be getting crushed, due to lack of abilities. They shouldn't be against each other at all. That's the point you're missing. If you make a game where 50's can and should beat lower levels, you shoudn't lump them in together so the casuals get farmed. It's pretty simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriahheeplol Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 They shouldn't be against each other at all. That's the point you're missing. If you make a game where 50's can and should beat lower levels, you shoudn't lump them in together so the casuals get farmed. It's pretty simple really. Understood. And I'm just saying I don't see that as a reason to quit during the first month of play. His reason for quitting has been clarified to me, though, so we're good here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It is the way that Bioware has just simply accepted that a number of their playerbase will be farmed and have taken no proactive action about that. This is ALWAYS going to be the case in a gear oriented, level based game. There will always be a segment of the player base at a higher level or higher gear set. This was the case in WoW and you managed to play it for six years. What was the solution you used for being outleveled or outgeared in Warcraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This is ALWAYS going to be the case in a gear oriented, level based game. No it's not. I can't speak for WOW, but a good game would simply bracket players so they aren't against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindianajones Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sorry that they hurt your feelings. I've been enjoying PvP in warzones from 10 all the way up through 50, and while it's sometimes annoying to be wrecked by a PvP geared player when you're level 30, it in no way made me want to stop PvP'ing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunsoar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 They shouldn't be against each other at all. That's the point you're missing. If you make a game where 50's can and should beat lower levels, you shoudn't lump them in together so the casuals get farmed. It's pretty simple really. Ah Spymaster. My favorite redundant poster. Low level players does not = casual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netskink Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Wow, im really surprised that so many people are really saying you should get owned by people that level faster then someone else? That is just silly. People that are 50 already put alot of work to get their and great for them but why would any level 50 want to play pvp against level 11s? There are what, 8 different story lines. I hope to play them all sooner or latter. Because I want to see all the content does that really mean I cant PvP? We all pay to play this game or have paid to get the game. We should all have fun at the pace we choose to play. Honestly it was a bonehead move by BW to put level 11s against lv 50s. Will I quite over it? No, Ill make more alts and wait till they fix it. I will still play pvp when I can but I do hope that they segregate the 50s sooner rather then latter. I will say that if I can finish all storyline before they do Ill go do something else. I agree with the first paragraph completely. I truly enjoy the storyline. Hat's off to the author team and developer's who implemented it. Hell, I even like the voices. Hat's off to them as well. I enjoy the companion interaction. Yes, I realize it will take a LOOONNG time to get to 50, but I don't enjoy end game. I do not miss hearing a teen-ager screaming over vent about people's playstyle, nor do I enjoy self-centered loot rules. When I quit wow after spending $1000's of dollars, I hesitated about installing swtor partially because of this. My pals will not play because of this. We are all professionals with extra cash, I am the only one who is spending it on this game. I also agree that just because you want to play different toons and not rush to 50, there should not be a penalty to pvp. For what its worth, I have two sons and we all used to play wow. Now, my oldest has not intention to play swtor. I bought my youngest son a 6 month subscription to swtor and he played it a week. His account is active but he will not play with me. He thinks the game is not as fun as MW3 or dozens of other games available via steam. Today, I was thinking about buying another alienware laptop simply to try and get him to play but with three gaming laptops in the house, I don't think its worthwhile. I think its more an issue with the game itself which does not appeal to him rather than the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ah Spymaster. My favorite redundant poster. Low level players does not = casual. Pointless point is pointless. I didn't say that low levels ARE casual, howerver, casuals are the ones who this problem effects the most. Do I realy have to explain why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netskink Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sorry that they hurt your feelings. I've been enjoying PvP in warzones from 10 all the way up through 50, and while it's sometimes annoying to be wrecked by a PvP geared player when you're level 30, it in no way made me want to stop PvP'ing. I don't mind getting wacked by a 50 in bg's either. My only complaint is when a guild routinely exploits huttball. In my opinion bioware should give them a warning to stop and if they do not stop, they should suspend them for a day. If they still persist they should remove their badges and gear so they can not farm huttball killing lowbies for 10 minutes each game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 errr no, now it's hit 50 and prepare to be farmed by 50's in full expertise gear continuously. level 50's with no expertise gear are as useless as level 10's And this is different than in WOW as a level 85 in full arena gear fighting a fresh 85? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindianajones Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't mind getting wacked by a 50 in bg's either. My only complaint is when a guild routinely exploits huttball. In my opinion bioware should give them a warning to stop and if they do not stop, they should suspend them for a day. If they still persist they should remove their badges and gear so they can not farm huttball killing lowbies for 10 minutes each game. Agreed, but exploits and PuG vs Premade are a whole separate issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No it's not. I can't speak for WOW, but a good game would simply bracket players so they aren't against each other. Actually, it is. You can be a 2500 rated arena player in full arena PVP gear and be pitted up against freshly dinged 85 scrubs in green gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Actually, it is. You can be a 2500 rated arena player in full arena PVP gear and be pitted up against freshly dinged 85 scrubs in green gear. In what game? WoW... so what? That doesn't mean it has to be like that in ALL games. WoW isn't the only way to make a game you know? Edited January 17, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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