Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[BlueSkittles]

To most players a pug group isn't formed for socialization purposes. It's formed to do content - as a team - with other living players. IE, multiplayer. Not IM.

 

Trying to socialize is like joining a pick-up basketball/soccer game and rather than playing standing around chatting to the other players.

 

Perfect analogy with the pick-up basketball/soccer game. I'm not there to learn who your are, get your life story, and become part of your family (aka join a guild). I just want to play a quick game with/against you for FUN! Then get the **** out and do other things.

[MuNieK]

I understund that. -While having our relax time, playing the game we want to maximize the fun and minimize the frustration.

 

But it woudlnt hurt nobody if we would all be rewarded for being nice. It will only help us all maximize the fun and reduce frustration. Noone want to be saint or martyr to be nice against all the harsh and rude treatment, so we have to give some profit for doing so. Giving nice players priority in the queues will make people see the reason why should they not be douchebags.

That is possible only if reputation system is in place.

[Skann]

As i said already: There is a douchebag in each of us. The game design may encourage us to be nice and gain profit from being nice, turning game enviroment into nice place, or encourage us to be sociopathic douchebags rewarding the fastest and easisest way, turning game enviroment into horrid place i would never let my childs be in.

 

We are all egoistic (if we are smart), but it woudlnt hurt to also be nice to other people and having them being nice to you while you relax. Why being nice? At least becouse you gain profit from that. - and now it woudlnt work if reputation woudlnt play any role.

 

I'm sure you are speaking for yourself. I have never been a douche in LFG given the fact that I would never "meet" these people again.

 

I don't need any kind of restriction or fear of retaliation to be a nice a person.

 

I would bet this applies to most of us who are advocating the need of cross-server grouping mechanisms.

[Umbral]

 

 

It turned WoW into a lobby based dungeon running game and killed the world. Its gonna do the same thing here.

It did exactly the opposite. It finally allowed players to access the instanced content without having to stand around in the cities spamming chat for a group. It finally sent them out into the game world. It sent so many out finally that it's a big reason WoW was forced to revamp their quests in most zones due to more people redoing quests they hadn't seen in a long time.

 

Furthermore, few people "grind" instances in WoW. At least, no one that knows even a bit of what they're doing does anyway. It's an inefficient way to level. The xp gained through open world questing makes for much faster leveling. So if it was faster to level just doing instances in SWTOR, then that would just be poor game design.

 

 

 

Thats a good example how you can solve the lower level dungeon problem without killing your MMO.

Funny that you say "killing" intimating that a cross server LFG tool would kill SWTOR. It actually decreased the sub cancellations in WoW when it was introduced, and saved a large number of servers from fading into oblivion. It saved RIFT from hemorrhaging players. So why are using the word "killing" again? Edited January 25, 2012 by Umbral

[Frostbird]

I understund that. -While having our relax time, playing the game we want to maximize the fun and minimize the frustration.

 

But it woudlnt hurt nobody if we would all be rewarded for being nice. It will only help us all maximize the fun and reduce frustration. Noone want to be saint or martyr to be nice against all the harsh and rude treatment, so we have to give some profit for doing so. Giving nice players priority in the queues will make people see the reason why should they not be douchebags.

That is possible only if reputation system is in place.

 

Of course there is a reward for being nice (by nice I mean playing well, not being a ninja needer or going emo when you lose a fair roll). Other people are nice to you and will likely not /ignore you post run.

 

That said, I'd like an automated reputation system. Here is probably my best image of how it could work.

 

Every week players get a number of 'tags'. Good and bad tags. During a run, at any time, players can award others a 'good' or 'bad' tag.

 

Giving someone a bad tag means you will /ignore them and never group with them again on the Finder.

 

Giving someone a good tag means that the system is more likely to match you together in future.

 

Tags are account wide.

 

You can see your own tags after the run. You can only award one tag to one account ever.

 

Every week there is a small reward to players who have used a certain number of good tags.

 

There could even be titles or aesthetic rewards awarded at certain levels of good tag to bad tag ratio. Players who get sufficient bad tag to good tag ratio will be checked out by a GM droid to see if they have been griefing or just unlucky.

 

There we go. Good play is incentivized, bad play is disincentivized. Easy to implement, hard to abuse and actually quite fun

[Manathayria]

TL/DR.

 

Server community is built by incentives for pugging and moderation of problem elements. A Finder is a very important tool in keeping an MMO accessible and enjoyable by the widest spectrum of players. All it's removal does is add an extra level of overhead and RNG to experiencing group conent, and telling people 'get a guild' turns guilds into a tool/chore/union rather than a voluntary shared social experience.

 

If you want to give rewards for manual groupmaking and same-server cooperation, go nuts. Expand your Social Points system and don't let the Finder reward it. Keep top tier content away from Finders too, if you want.

 

But for leveling group content and the 'gearing phase' of endgame, they are something that will be drastically needed in a few months.

 

Thanks for reading.

- The Bird

 

I don't think you understood what I was objecting to here.

 

My comment and me saying no was to the concept of a LFD with a rate up/down system that also based your ability to get groups later on in the LFD off of your rep at the end of a run as such a system can be manipulated. There are no methods I'm aware of that can keep this from being manipulated, and the time and effort to even try would be more than it would be worth.

 

I will revisit what I have been saying and sum it up again.

 

I want a LFD finder. They're putting one in place, so here, we're all getting what we want so far.

 

I would like to see how a LFD finder that is server only - and possibly fosters a sense of community with people starting to recognize each other.

 

If people on low pop servers/non peak hours are still having issues finding groups I would like to see a cross server LFD with the option of server only for those that do not want to deal with cross server. As this would be ideal to allow those that don't want to use cross server, but enjoy the speed of LFD, and would keep them from getting flamed in general with 'lol use the LFD'. The option to manual form is always there, as is the option to manual form while using the LFD tool to Q between posts/responses. I fully expect that we will eventually see cross server LFD - the question is if they'll do anything to give those that hate it an option to do server only with those that are in cross server pulling from the server only population as well as the LFD needs. The cross server LFD qs would likely move much faster than server only.

 

I've never say screaming that people should get a guild to do dungeons - I've said I met most of the people I've joined guilds with through the dungeon finders.

 

Bird, as for your guild you were leaving spamming messages at the guild you applied to - those people are scum, and ones I wouldn't want to be associated with. Myself, before I join a guild I ask about any guild I consider and try running with them a while before taking an invite because I want to see how they act outside of forum/other as well as in. I've always joined guilds with the understanding that I will leave if I find one that's a better fit, and I've never gotten burned for it.

 

If 10% of the player base are ******es, and all you run across are them in LFD, you're going to associate LFD with ******es. You seem to be running almost the exact opposite. Guilds are ******es, and if I have a bigger guild, I can be an ******e to you and your rep is ruined if I want to, therefore, reputation on a server means nothing.

 

Server community - in some games - is very strong. Enter DDO, LOTRO, FFXI. All three still going, all three with strong sense of community where we recognize each other running through town and all. I won't say they have a huge community, but they're good games with good communities that are relatively tight knit. Reputation in FFXI means a massive amount. If you listened to the vets as a newbie, even if you sucked at the game - if you were willing to improve, it got you a good reputation.

 

I also tend to 'build my rep' as far as helping people out when I see them asking for help with quests, unless I'm already grouped, or for some reason really don't want to get exp (I'm in a duo with my current lvl 40). Not everything for rep is built by you running in groups for dungeons. I will probably be the first to point this out, everything you say in game reflects on you and what you are.

 

Severly cut up:

Simply stated, pretty much nobody is going to give a crap what you think. Shut up and tank; shut up and DPS; shut up and heal. Don't roll on other peoples' stuff. If there are agreed-upon loot rules before the pulling starts, abide by them. Don't blow your stack if someone goes into douchenozzle mode and rolls Need on everything and replies with 'lol u mad?' if called on it.

 

Now, an LFD tool. It's coming. Personally, I like the idea. I couldn't give a spit in the ocean less if it's intra-server or server exclusive.

 

Whatever lets me run more dungeons when I dang well want to loot farm gets my vote.

 

Why? Shut up and tank.

We're not asking for enthralling convo when we talk about community and building a rep on a server. By 'building community/rep' it's meaning 'Hey, that guy was a great tank/heals/dps, I'm going to ask them if I can friend them so I can have another fast run with them later, this went well!', or 'hey, you did a good job, see you don't have a guild, would you like to join mine?' Or 'This guy is an ******e /ignore'.

 

Usually in FFXI I was quiet as a healer. I sat back and said little to nothing and did my job in group. In turn, I was invited to more groups, and later on, even more on my other jobs I leveled on that character - because people knew when it came down to actually doing ****, I got it done. We also were able to sit and talk when someone AFKed, not sit in the awkward silence that often hit when LFD threw us into a group and after two bosses someone had to go afk to take care of their kid that started crying. Which... non-cross server people have usually been more willing to wait 5 while someone takes care of their kid/dog/other that suddenly had issues that'd take maybe 5-10 without immediately reverting to booting the person.

[Sai-to]

Or just go full automated. This has exactly 0% more social interaction and is just more overhead.

 

Wrong. The social aspect of the game remains with the suggestion I listed.

 

 

So, people who don't play on primary Timezones or were unlucky enough to roll on underpopulated servers may as well just quit? For the sake of some nonexistant "server community". Sod that.

 

100% loss of Accountability is not worth sacrificing for saving a few minutes. Notice how I have no issue with PvP being cross-server. The LFG changes I suggested would remove any problem of low pop. Except for some DPS... and someone who rolls DPS knows the risk they take when doing so... they are always the most over-played role.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Sai-to

[Manathayria]

100% loss of Accountability is not worth sacrificing for saving a few minutes. Notice how I have no issue with PvP being cross-server. The LFG changes I suggested would remove any problem of low pop. Except for some DPS... and someone who rolls DPS knows the risk they take when doing so... they are always the most over-played role.

 

I find it funny that you're fine with PvP cross server.

 

You realize that there is a PvP community even though you may not notice it if you full PvE? We all recognize each other in WZ, and we recognize each other on fleet and everything when we're running around. We do know exactly who the jerk is that screams at everyone while doing nothing himself in WZ. Make no mistake, it's hit just like the PvE dungeons are when it comes to accountability and community. The difference is there's no loot drops and it's working for a specific goal in the WZ, and at the end are awarded tokens to exchange for loot based on what we did and if our side won or lost.

 

What's good for one is good for another.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Manathayria

[MuNieK]

I'm sure you are speaking for yourself. I have never been a douche in LFG given the fact that I would never "meet" these people again.

 

I don't need any kind of restriction or fear of retaliation to be a nice a person.

 

I would bet this applies to most of us who are advocating the need of cross-server grouping mechanisms.

 

Yes yes... you are the beautiful and unique snowflake that never been douchebag to anyone no matter how frusrtated you was. You are saint.

 

Somehow i doubt that all this crowd of people speaking for the x-realm dungeon finder without any reputation factor are all saints tho.

[Skann]

Yes yes... you are the beautiful and unique snowflake that never been douchebag to anyone no matter how frusrtated you was. You are saint.

 

Somehow i doubt that all this crowd of people speaking for the x-realm dungeon finder without any reputation factor are all saints tho.

 

Well, that's just to show the argument against LFG is a pile of hyped non-sense. Now you are implying that most people for cross-server grouping are douches.

[Manathayria]

Yes yes... you are the beautiful and unique snowflake that never been douchebag to anyone no matter how frusrtated you was. You are saint.

 

Somehow i doubt that all this crowd of people speaking for the x-realm dungeon finder without any reputation factor are all saints tho.

I doubt any of us are saints. I actually, regularly deal with some of the biggest scum out there when doing my job. I have a very jaded sense of what the human race is capable of and will do to each other. Especially when they think no one will catch them.

 

I feel that most 'rep' systems would be gamed. So far, Bird's example for a rep system has the highest merit. Rating up and having a 'reward' for rating up, and for having over a certain # of rate ups would give a bigger reward at the end of the week. Enough rate downs would flag you for investigation over time, and put you on ignore by those that do the rate down.

 

I don't feel that with a random system that it should decide how fast you get a group based on rate ups or downs. The reward at the end of a day or week for getting rate ups with decent groups should be enough incentive to not be a jerk.

 

A rocky start in the game as far as someone learning their class in dungeons could really screw someone once the game is established if they let a popularity contest determine how fast an individual gets a group.

[Skann]

100% loss of Accountability is not worth sacrificing for saving a few minutes. Notice how I have no issue with PvP being cross-server. The LFG changes I suggested would remove any problem of low pop. Except for some DPS... and someone who rolls DPS knows the risk they take when doing so... they are always the most over-played role.

 

Seriously? 100% accountability on virtual "community"? Come on man, this is a hobby for most of us, something we do for fun. It's not a job, or an essential part of our lives.

 

As said thousands of times before, LFG with the following basic options:

 

- checkbox for intra server only

- checkbox for no teleport to FP

- vote to kick

- Operation loot system (ie, pre-rolled items)

 

Simple, use it however way you like. Afraid of jerks from other servers? Don't use it, or check the box for intra server only. Have time to go from Belsavis north bonus area back to the fleet without Fleet Pass/Quick travel? By all means, enjoy the view.

 

Just don't force your play style on others.

[Manathayria]

Well, that's just to show the argument against LFG is a pile of hyped non-sense. Now you are implying that most people for cross-server grouping are douches.

 

He isn't.... he's implying the people that dislike a rate up or down system for 'rep' being built into cross server are.

 

I think he's wrong, and I think I stated why I dislike the idea of 'punishing' someone through a system like that as far as how fast they get a group is silly rather clearly.

[Jeddo]

Without a real lfg tool you will lose many players after they are done levling, cause the game feel dead after you are done with quests....

[ragamer]

LFD tools, with independence of the scope, are just psychological placebos because the only thing they do is "masking" the problems into a bigger container.

 

 

What are the reassons that makes you spend hours looking for a group "Traditionally" (Broadly ordered in decreasing order of importance)?:

 

1) The chat system is not global.

 

2) Your gaming time windows doesn't follow the average game time window.

 

3) You lack a social network of ppl with matching classes, game time and goals.

 

4) Your party role is saturated.

 

5) Your gear/skill requirements aren't perceived as enough for the goals you are interested in.

 

 

Why is anoying having to wait "traditionally" for a group? This one is easier... Your progress speed on group content is very slow.

 

 

Before keep on going, I wish to remember that Social -> who tab is a LFD tool for the server you are in. It's not automatic, but it fixes the 1) problem, the main issue. The main issue here is that BW has made a HORRIBLE job at advertising it... In fact a dedicated loading tooltip about /who functionality should be the MOST often readable for L50 characters (And a detailed codex entry explaining the usefull format of the search strings will help alleviate TONS of problems)... Because a social tool that's not adopted by the community by lack of awareness is not usefull at all.

 

 

I'm not going to talk about the "perceived benefits" of a LFD tool as, reading the thread seems that most ppl is well aware of them (ie they ate the placebo). Instead I will talk about a few scenarios to try to show why LFD do not "fix" anything and finnally I will try to explain what they destroy.

 

 

Why LFD tools doesn't fix anything

 

Lets start by point 4)... As a member of the DPS role, have you ever bothered to check how much time a TANK or a HEALER has to wait for a party? Do so (WoW wasn't as good to make this test as RIFT, for example). Invariably, with independence of the scope of the LFD tool, you will find that Saturated Roles are the only ones waiting... Such is the nature of a shared queue with "preferent classes".

 

K, but you "wait less" than before, you can claim... True... The first weeks after the LFD appears. Ever wondered why suddenly the wait times raise to the top for the DPS classes? Think on how many Dungeon Runs the TANKS and HEALERS are doing compared to the ones you are doing as DPS... How much time it takes for them to "gear up" compared to you, the Saturated Role? See what's happening? LFD is just "fast forwarding" everything by been sure that the Saturated Role is systematically laging behind the others... This time affecting EVERYONE in the scope of the LFD tool.

 

Soon you see the messages "What is the prefered class needed for dungeons?" replaced by "What is the class with less waiting time?".

 

This is the basic premise... But now lets see how this "detroys the community".

 

 

What LFD tools destroy

 

This is a set of subtle effects, but the origin is the above asymetrical progress speed on "Fast Forward" LFD allows.

 

 

"Success Ratio"

 

Knowing that your waiting time is zero as Preferent Role... How prone you are to leave an ongoing run when conditions doesn't look good?

 

This is a sad effect of ALL LFD tools... The number of STARTED runs increases per unit of time but the proportion of COMPLETED ones decreases. Notice that the source of the problem is the perceived difficulty of getting a new group... That goes from "no problem!" for the Prefered Roles to "Crap! Again to wait on the queue" for the Saturated Roles.

 

 

"Cohesion"

 

This is related to the scope of the LFD tool... If you are on a X-server tool, the chances to be on the same team as some1 you liked to play with will be next to nothing... Once the LFD tool is the main mechanism used by ppl on your own server... You will never have the chance of building 3) unless you join Guilds... Precissely the kind of dedication ppl that can't wait to assemble a team "traditionally" can't afford.

 

Linked to this is the other side of the coin, antisocial ppl has less chances to feel the consequences of treating others like **** while going on Dungeon Runs. Some ppl confuses this as "organized policing" or offer some conspiracy theories...

 

...It's all far simpler than that. If you have a group of friends, and you care about them, wouldn't your warn them about someone that acts in ways you don't like?... Well, that's how "effective policy" works... The local ******es sooner or later will fill up ppl ignore lists because ppl cares about friends and want to have the best online experience possible. That's how it works IRL and how it happens "naturally" on an online environment.

 

LFD tools neglect this "social control" (Not fully... As most take into account ignore lists so you are never put into the same group as someone you have on ignore) the wider the scope they are used into.

 

But the "Asymetry Hammer" strikes again as, you can figure, been an ******e and been kicked from a party doesn't have the same consequences when you are part of the Prefered Roles than if you belong to the Saturated Roles.

 

 

"Content Variety"

 

And here is the final piece when 5) enters in full force... When Saturated Role players are tired of been under control of the Prefered Role on the runs they will ask Devs to increase the chances of SUCCESS which, invariably, carries over to BEEN sure that the Dungeon Runs are not stressing anyone and that the perception of the "requirements" are easily met by all participants.

 

This not only translate to the difficulty reference (which is automatically shifted to minimum performance expected) but also to content variety as, on a class based game, some classes have easier access to specific challenges, this means that to remove this preferences, you ALSO have to remove the specific challenge, which in turn, makes all challenges the same sort of "average".

 

 

I have tried to explain what some ppl refers hastily as "Community Damage"... But beyond the length of the explanation (Not a native english, sorry) it just requires to switch around between Roles to check how LFD in reality works... And pay some attention to how the "Dugeoneering Environment" slowly changes and finnally to check how Devs start to release "difficulty alteration" patches and how, after a while, the type of dungeon you are playing is only different on the art and the loot tables... The gameplay is exactly the same.

[Durio]

I don't get this discussion, it's coming anyways unless Bioware wants massive drops in subscribers.

 

No company keeps nicheplayers and casuals CBA with looking for people 30+mins or socializing a 100 people in an online game.

[ragamer]

It will not... If they want their game to last...

 

...Antisocial players do not generate content, they just consume it.

 

A social player is cheaper to keep. It has happened in all MMOs... ATM that "anonymous dungeoneering" appears Devs can't cope with the content demand that, invariably shortens the lifetime of their product...

 

...You don't have to look too far to see this effect in action.

 

Once players realize they aren't playing a MMO, just a glorified Lan party full of strangers... The value of a subscription falls to the ground as there are specialized alternatives around by a fraction of the cost.

Edited January 25, 2012 by ragamer

[Skann]

It will not... If they want their game to last...

 

...Antisocial players do not generate content, they just consume it.

 

A social player is cheaper to keep. It has happened in all MMOs... ATM that "anonymous dungeoneering" appears Devs can't cope with the content demand that, invariably shortens the lifetime of their product...

 

...You don't have to look too far to see this effect in action.

 

Once players realize they aren't playing a MMO, just a glorified Lan party full of strangers... The value of a subscription falls to the ground as there are specialized alternatives around by a fraction of the cost.

 

Ask Blizzard about how successful cross-server grouping is. They have just 10m+ players that, despite all the game issues and age, continue to pay their monthly fee.

 

If you pay 15 bucks a month to help form a virtual community, or to have a platform to chat with people that you will, very very likely, never ever meet in real, by all means, go for it. However, don't expect that everyone will share your view. Some of us pay 15 USD to actually play a game, and don't care about meaningless social interactions.

 

By the way, trying to frame players that don't care about the social implications/aspects of online gaming as "anti-social" is misleading, to say the least. You are the ones all worried about virtual friends, virtual honor or recognition in a virtual community. In my book, you are the ones escaping reality via a video-game.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Skann

[Manathayria]

I don't get this discussion, it's coming anyways unless Bioware wants massive drops in subscribers.

 

No company keeps nicheplayers and casuals CBA with looking for people 30+mins or socializing a 100 people in an online game.

 

Some of the discussion is on 'should it be cross server, if so, how'. Some of it's the last dying objections as people threaten to leave if it happens.

 

At the moment we are (according to a forum post somewhere that I've long since lost track of) getting a LFD finder.

 

Bioware has stated that at this stage in the game's lifespan they don't feel cross server is a good idea for the community.

 

By the way, trying to frame players that don't care about the social implications/aspects of online gaming as "anti-social" is misleading, to say the least. You are the ones all worried about virtual friends, virtual honor or recognition in a virtual community. In my book, you are the ones escaping reality via a video-game.

 

If you're playing a video game, you're doing something relaxing, but you're also doing something that's getting away from reality. Even if it's not intentional/conscious 'escapism' it is something you are practicing, even if you don't like to accept that concept.

 

The people that are arguing against cross server because of the concept of community... Many people do play MMOs to be more social.... otherwise, they'd be on single player games. You know, like Skyrim, or FONV? It's kinda why MMOs are... multiplayer, and ... online.

[ragamer]

Ask Blizzard about how successful cross-server grouping is. They have just 10m+ players that, despite all the game issues and age, continue to pay their monthly fee.

 

You should actually check at which point in WoW history player subs peaked on western servers...

 

...And then learn to check how, over time, the sub concept turned into "active accounts" (That include trials) and if you are really interested check even further how this concept is "calculated" on the Asian subscription model...

 

...Then you can go back and see how WoW "golden age" was related to their Dungeon Finding tool.

 

And then cross-relate those subs with the lifetime of the product and see at which point everything had to be "accelerated" .

 

If you like to check average stats... BE SURE you learn first what they mean to you and your interests.

 

 

If you pay 15 bucks a month to help form a virtual community, or to have a platform to chat with people that you will, very very likely, never ever meet in real, by all means, go for it. However, don't expect that everyone will share your view. Some of us pay 15 USD to actually play a game, and don't care about meaningless social interactions.

 

I understand that you have been trained to go after the cookie that's waved in front of you and perceive "social interactions" as the lesser evil...

 

...Some others realize how "void" is pursuing the cookie, if the road to it is not pleasant. I don't need to build anything on purpose... I seek to have the best online experience possible and that includes interacting with others. Some angry kids like to pretend they live in a relationless world... Sadly for them that's impossible, that's why they seek the recipe that allows them to get the help they need while looking for the "cookie" but at the same time not feel bound to others by it... That delusion works against them at the end, becuase by that same antisocial behaviour they are never able to adopt group benefiting roles/characters. They basically volunteer to be on the Saturated Roles... That in turn always get the shorter stick doesn't matter the grouping mechanism used.

Edited January 25, 2012 by ragamer

[Durio]

By the way, nobody in this thread has ANY proof of a LFD impacting on social behaviour.

 

I'm a tank on Jar'kai Sword, the most social interaction I have to do is: "hi" and "bye".

 

Out of all the heroics I have made 2 "friends", in otherwords added 2 healers to my list.

 

I dont see where this LFG spamming makes people any more social.

[Sendrel]

Of course there is a reward for being nice (by nice I mean playing well, not being a ninja needer or going emo when you lose a fair roll). Other people are nice to you and will likely not /ignore you post run.

 

That said, I'd like an automated reputation system. Here is probably my best image of how it could work.

 

Every week players get a number of 'tags'. Good and bad tags. During a run, at any time, players can award others a 'good' or 'bad' tag.

 

Giving someone a bad tag means you will /ignore them and never group with them again on the Finder.

 

Giving someone a good tag means that the system is more likely to match you together in future.

 

Tags are account wide.

 

You can see your own tags after the run. You can only award one tag to one account ever.

 

Every week there is a small reward to players who have used a certain number of good tags.

 

There could even be titles or aesthetic rewards awarded at certain levels of good tag to bad tag ratio. Players who get sufficient bad tag to good tag ratio will be checked out by a GM droid to see if they have been griefing or just unlucky.

 

There we go. Good play is incentivized, bad play is disincentivized. Easy to implement, hard to abuse and actually quite fun

 

There have been similar suggestions floating around since the inclusion of WoW's LFD and, as others have pointed out, its entirely too easy to game a system whereby the ratings are public.

 

A better solution is to have what basically amounts to a personal preference system and have the LFD tool attempt to match you with the people you've previously grouped with, and rated up.

 

As an example, you group with a person (tank/healer/dps), have a really fun run and would like to run flashpoints with that person again. You rate them up on your personal preference rating system. This rating system is only viewable by you and has no impact on the person's ability to get a group with others. At this point, whenever you enter the LFD queue, the LFD tool attempts to match you with people you've previously rated up. Conversely, it also keeps you from grouping with people you've rated down. BAM! Basically, the same effect as the system you described without the ability to be manipulated.

 

Couple that with cross server friends lists, cross server chat for your cross server friends and the ability to form groups with your cross server friends list and you've gone 90% of the way to solving ALL of the problems some people associate with LFD cross server.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Sendrel

[dargor-]

Yes you can... City of Heroes has cross-server global names and a global friends list, hey had it in the game 7 years ago, and I hear your precious WoW has this now too (called battle tags or whatever.)

 

This is not a valid argument.

 

You know what argument isn't valid? Yours for assuming WoW is my precious whatever.

 

I don't play WoW and I didn't before I came to Swtor.

 

You're obviously nothing more than a frustrated cheesehead that can't think straight because all you want is to have a WoW-killer game that satisfies your unpopular expectations for a MMO.

 

Well guess what, nearly 80% of the forum playerbase wants Dungeon finder, addons and macros. That number goes even higher if you actually consult players inside the game who don't come to the forums. not only that, it's already been confirmed that all 3 are coming.

 

So have fun polluting your next MMO's forum.

Edited January 25, 2012 by dargor-

[Umbral]

 

No company keeps nicheplayers and casuals CBA with looking for people 30+mins or socializing a 100 people in an online game.

Unfortunately, it appears Bioware would.

 

This is 2012. This isn't 10 years ago land.

 

The genre has evolved in the direction of easy access to group oriented content. That is what the players of the games in the genre have shown, overwhelmingly, that they want. This was extremely clear while SWTOR was in development. This was even clearer when people that hadn't been following the development of SWTOR in minute detail started arriving shortly before launch. Despite this, there wasn't even a decent server only LFG tool in place, never mind what players really want.

 

All we've seen from BW since is what appears to be a half hearted announcement of a server only tool, but not even a rough estimation of when that insufficient step would be taken.

 

So here we sit waiting for the implementation of what anyone that understands anything about modern mmos knows will not be enough.

 

Then we have to wait until BW finds out for themselves what various other gaming companies have already found out for them. A server only tool is not sufficient.

 

This because, evidently, instead of listening to mmo gamers, Bioware decided to listen to the tiny fraction of their potential subscription base that for the most part doesn't even partake in the content a cross server LFD tool is for. They don't game in a mmo. They merely exist in one. To them it's a mmorp, not mmorpG.

[AeonWeapon]

Page 100... 56 days left of my paid play time, ticking away with still no way to have a decent shot at playing end game content. 56 days left for Bioware to put in this tool and keep me as a customer.