Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[Skann]

All other threads were closed, so, here we go. I do hope Bioware drops this non-sense of community building argument and delivers tools that allow people to play more and spend less time spamming general.

 

edit: by that I mean, cross-server LFG/Warzones/LFR (among other things, such as dual-spec, reduced travel time, recount like modules, etc).

Edited January 25, 2012 by Skann

[Thaltom]

Voting against a cross-server Dungeon Finder.

 

Would like to compromise with an In-server tool that insta-forms groups for FPs and missions.

 

NO teleportation ezmode please.

[Skann]

Voting against a cross-server Dungeon Finder.

 

Would like to compromise with an In-server tool that insta-forms groups for FPs and missions.

 

NO teleportation ezmode please.

 

How about giving people the option to choose?

 

LFG with check-boxes for:

 

- Intra-server only groups

- No insta teleport to FP

 

Play as you wish and let others play as they want.

[BlueSkittles]

Would like to compromise with an In-server tool that insta-forms groups for FPs and missions.

 

Thank you for at least being willing to compromise.

 

Voting against a cross-server Dungeon Finder.

 

I understand the reasons people initially want to try intra-server first. How about the compromise of having checkboxes for both? (though my personal opinion is that both of those will fail and we'll eventually see only cross-server, but I don't quite have the evidence to back it up)

 

NO teleportation ezmode please.

 

"ezmode" LOLOLOLOLOLOL Until the first time you have the tank attempting to complete their class quests while the rest of the group waits in the instance, as someone stated happened to them in an earlier post. There is a reason the LFD in WoW teleports people, and convenience is only one of the reasons.

Edited January 25, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[Neiloch]

I really do love how people call fast travel easy mode, as if travel is a challenge to begin with.

[Vrumpt]

NO. NO. NO. Please god no cross server dungeon finder. Get off your lazy *** and walk 2 feet to the other ship. Stop being anti-social and talk to people. This is an MMO not a single player game.

 

The day Bioware adds an cross-server dungeon finder is the day I cancel my sub.

 

It turned WoW into a lobby based dungeon running game and killed the world. Its gonna do the same thing here.

 

Rather than add a dungeon finder, lets think of what else can be done to rectify the problem we are trying to solve. As an example, an alternative would be to have lower level dungeons scale people down (or, the opposite the bolster mechanic does for PvP) so that level 50's could run them and have them still be challenging. They could also give level appropriate xp and credit rewards. Not only that, doing them could count towards the daily, and we could even have some kind of monetary or tionise crystal bonus for running a lower level dungeon.

 

Thats a good example how you can solve the lower level dungeon problem without killing your MMO.

[Edstonx]

Voting against a cross-server Dungeon Finder.

 

Would like to compromise with an In-server tool that insta-forms groups for FPs and missions.

 

NO teleportation ezmode please.

 

This is what I want aswell, minus the instagrouping. Someone should have to hit invite, a nice interface to do so is all that I really want.

[Neiloch]

NO. NO. NO. Please god no cross server dungeon finder. Get off your lazy *** and walk 2 feet to the other ship. Stop being anti-social and talk to people. This is an MMO not a single player game. - As stated about 100 times in this thread that has been proven to be QUITE ineffective. Next.

 

The day Bioware adds an cross-server dungeon finder is the day I cancel my sub.

 

It turned WoW into a lobby based dungeon running game and killed the world. Its gonna do the same thing here. - Yeah opposed to everyone hanging around the fleet ships trying to get groups. Wait.....that's almost like a LOBBY. Next.

 

Rather than add a dungeon finder, lets think of what else can be done to rectify the problem we are trying to solve. As an example, an alternative would be to have lower level dungeons scale people down (or, the opposite the bolster mechanic does for PvP) so that level 50's could run them and have them still be challenging. They could also give level appropriate xp and credit rewards. Not only that, doing them could count towards the daily, and we could even have some kind of monetary or tionise crystal bonus for running a lower level dungeon. - You clearly have no idea how much programming and balancing that would require. It would be a monumental undertaking to say the least.

 

Thats a good example how you can solve the lower level dungeon problem without killing your MMO. - No. No its not.

 

intra-server LFD is coming. The devs have confirmed it. And the way server populations are going its only a matter of time before x-server comes. that or merges and free transfers.

[BlueSkittles]

Rather than add a dungeon finder, lets think of what else can be done to rectify the problem we are trying to solve. As an example, an alternative would be to have lower level dungeons scale people down (or, the opposite the bolster mechanic does for PvP) so that level 50's could run them and have them still be challenging. They could also give level appropriate xp and credit rewards. Not only that, doing them could count towards the daily, and we could even have some kind of monetary or tionise crystal bonus for running a lower level dungeon.

 

Thats a good example how you can solve the lower level dungeon problem without killing your MMO.

 

Love that you are trying to find something different to solve this problem. That would be great if the problem hadn't been solved in so many other MMO's.

 

NO. NO. NO. Please god no cross server dungeon finder. Get off your lazy *** and walk 2 feet to the other ship. Stop being anti-social and talk to people. This is an MMO not a single player game.

 

The day Bioware adds an cross-server dungeon finder is the day I cancel my sub.

 

It turned WoW into a lobby based dungeon running game and killed the world. Its gonna do the same thing here.

 

Don't attempt to tell me how to play this game nor call me and a HUGE chunk of the playerbase "lazy". Can I have your stuff when you leave?

[Touchbass]

NO. NO. NO. Please god no cross server dungeon finder. Get off your lazy *** and walk 2 feet to the other ship. Stop being anti-social and talk to people. This is an MMO not a single player game.

 

The day Bioware adds an cross-server dungeon finder is the day I cancel my sub.

 

It turned WoW into a lobby based dungeon running game and killed the world. Its gonna do the same thing here.

 

Rather than add a dungeon finder, lets think of what else can be done to rectify the problem we are trying to solve. As an example, an alternative would be to have lower level dungeons scale people down (or, the opposite the bolster mechanic does for PvP) so that level 50's could run them and have them still be challenging. They could also give level appropriate xp and credit rewards. Not only that, doing them could count towards the daily, and we could even have some kind of monetary or tionise crystal bonus for running a lower level dungeon.

 

Thats a good example how you can solve the lower level dungeon problem without killing your MMO.

 

Do it my way, only my way and if you don't do it my way I'll quit? That's real mature. Those proposed solutions don't do jack.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Touchbass

[Touchbass]

Voting against a cross-server Dungeon Finder.

 

Would like to compromise with an In-server tool that insta-forms groups for FPs and missions.

 

NO teleportation ezmode please.

 

Thank you for your middle path civil approach to the issue. Even though we don't agree I can respect your opinion.

 

 

Why are people against the teleport? Why should I have to drop what I'm doing? As it stands, I have to spam while questing to find a group, then drop what i am doing, use my ports, travel to the instance and use my ports once done. Seems like it serves no purpose.

[BlueSkittles]

This is what I want aswell, minus the instagrouping. Someone should have to hit invite, a nice interface to do so is all that I really want.

 

Sooooo, you basically want what is in there now? That tool works SO well. And for reference, look how well similar tools worked in WoW. They had to keep replacing them because no one used them. Specifically look at the descriptions of the Burning Crusade tool to the beginning of Wrath of the Lich King tool. http://www.wowpedia.org/Dungeon_finder#History

 

I for one want a tool that works right away and one that a majority of the players will actually use. Which hopefully Bioware will introduce with patch 1.2? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Bioware!

[Manathayria]

6) You can't "scare off" players yourselves, Bioware will ban you for harrassment

Yea.. I know of a guild that drove another off server with no retaliation from Bioware at all. (It was a christian guild that was trying to convert people in game, so no /sympathy for them either.)

 

Instead of just trying to mitigate potential flaws, look at the absolute best experience possible. With cross server, if you find a good group, you got lucky. You always have a random chance, though. You might never see those same people ever again.

 

With single server, if you find someone that you like to group with, you can group with them every day. You can build a friends list and a whole community.

 

Random, anonymous hookups are never as satisfying as building a lasting relationship. Friends are more important than loot. Getting dungeons cleared and gearing people up doesn't lead to player retention. Building friends lists and having inter-personal relationships does.

 

You might make enemies, but that only makes the friendships that much stronger. It causes you to appreciate your buddies even more.

 

Between my guild, my friends list, and general chat, I've never had to wait more than 10-15 minutes to get a group going in SWTOR. The problem is minor. Destroying the community would do far more harm than good.

Actually, cross server I have had good groups. Understand the reason I want server only option/server only LFD at this time is because there isn't too much of a community. I think server only LFG will help build more of a sense of server community - which I think is needed. At this stage in the game's life I think it'd be bad to yank it full cross server. Lets see what server only gives us first, then if it doesn't work for all servers give us cross server with the option for self server only I just got off wow a few hours ago and my first group stuck together for seven dungeons. The following three groups I had went just as smoothly. In one of my dungeons I had I had a guy that was intentionally pulling the boss and wiping us with it + trash to try getting a kick as he and his buddy didn't want that specific dungeon - but were still doing randoms. We couldn't do anything about that for the first 15 min or so in the dungeon because of the built in timer before you can kick.

 

We only had one horrible tank that refused to listen about how to do a fight and stood in the black aoe that covered all but one spot in the room... and never made a move to even try going to the safe spot. Just stood and expected the healer to heal him through it.

 

I think we need some context. Consequences where born in the era where it took you months of gaming to reach max level AND, here is the tricky part, any form of progress required players. If you pissed people off for whatever reason, you were ****ed. You needed to spend another 3-6+ months leveling and there were no server tranfers/name changes.

Truth. I recall FFXI with this. If you were a good player playing a class people didn't like, you still actually got invites. Usually I was a healer, which gave me no issues on getting groups, the rest of the time I was a Beastmaster. Bst did not group in that game. for those that are not familiar with it, Beastmaster was considered a solo only class for a very long time because when they charmed creatures they took an exp hit, and if they charmed something 'above' level for the party, the entire party took it. Even after that was fixed people /shunned us. We had what were called 'jug' pets that didn't give the exp nerf, but most people wouldn't take us even with that because of the way the class worked.

 

Go back in time and play ANY OTHER MMO at launch. TOR had, BY FAR the single best, smoothest, most bug free launch of any AAA MMO ever made...

 

The game is stable, more lag free than any other newly launched MMO, and what bugs it does have, aren't gigantic. There might be a scattering of tiny ones, but nothing that makes an entire class useless or completely unplayable. Most games have those.

Error 9000. Billing issues where people didn't get 'credit' for 2 days on their billing cycle. Error 1003. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=231126 . http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=162925 . There were people in the first month that when they logged in it gave them black screen and a crash, and had this issue for weeks. Some of them were in Beta and had it run smoothly. Some of those individuals even happen to have better computers than my 3 year old clunker that runs this without a flaw.

 

Save me the smooth launch crap. I've seen quite a few that were smoother than this, and granted free play time for the errors in their game. Bioware is doing no such thing. Even FFXIV which chose to go free to play for a year was smoother, and their game was 'finished' and not full of the bugs. They just happened to have a UI people hated and no mounts. The game itself was actually amazing.

 

Because people solo in PvP way more than in PvE. You HAVE to form a group to take on the big PvE content. Pretty much everything 50+ requires groups so it's good to know the people on your server. Plus when you're thrown into some random server, you're more likely to get ninja looters who don't mind screwing you over to get gear for their companion. But you don't need to form a group to PvP, you can queue yourself solo and I think most people do. And nobody can steal your loot either. I don't really see how cross server PvP can ruin communities...

 

Actually, we get to know each other very well in PvP. PvP cross server it was difficult to get to know others in your battle group or on your server that did it. I do remember the days of storming other cities between battlegrounds fondly.

 

lol I love people acting like ninja'ing for companion loot in HM's is already common when nothing like that has happened to me here and wasn't even possible to do in other MMO's. That is unless WoW or Rift has released equippable mercs or some such that I'm not aware of.

This is the first with equip-able mercs, however, I'm pretty sure you're not sitting over my shoulder when I run dungeons - so you can't possibly know who's needed what over me or others in the groups I've run or why. So I fixed your post.

 

My solution for dropping the chance of 'ninjas' for any reason is simply doing something like wow, and I believe rift did. If it's not armor you wear, you simply cannot need it. IE med wearing marauder can't roll on cunning/wis/str heavy armor. Which would also ease some people's issues with a cross server LFD tool. It's much harder to 'ninja' if it's just not an option to roll outside of class. I actually started a thread about this.... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=226637 here.

 

Back to the LFD tool itself...

 

I still want to see how LFD cross server works. That they've said it's going in is good, it's a step in the right direction. I think they're right to wait and see how LFD self server works, and if/when they go cross server, I think a LFD cross server with the option of LFD self server would be best. I don't think too many people will bail if they see that it's going in the right direction, and understand that they are considering cross server if server only isn't good enough.

 

Again, those that pick []self server would be taking a penalty as far as how fast they get groups, but would be in the 'same' q as those that are []cross server as far as being able to get a random with those that are qing cross server on their own server. I also feel that the tool should run a check server side for any LFMs before going cross server - and also run a time check on those people server side (how long they were in Q) vs those that are cross server Q to make it fair to all involved, then form the group.

[Neiloch]

This is the first with equip-able mercs, however, I'm pretty sure you're not sitting over my shoulder when I run dungeons - so you can't possibly know who's needed what over me or others in the groups I've run or why. So I fixed your post.

 

lol really? so since no one has rolled on companion loot in my HM's and they have in yours, its common? Biased much?

 

You can't possibly know what is going to happen with the LFD IN REGARDS TO EQUIPPABLE COMPANIONS since IT DOESN'T EXIST YET, ANYWHERE. that is of course like I said, games with LFD have gotten equippable NPC's or SWTOR already has a LFD I don't know about.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Neiloch

[Manathayria]

The following link is how I think most "community" people act to get groups together or whatever (from mintchiplol Twitter "This is why being a female in a video game is not cool /most/ of the time."):

https://twitter.com/#!/Mintchiplol/status/161936138943217665/photo/1

Funny... I've actually never run into this as a female player in multiple years of gaming. Most of the 'community' players haven't acted like this. They generally have been very good about treating me with respect.

 

But that, really goes back to the 'Well, if 1% our of the LFD are ninja looters, you should be ok!' idea that people throw around all the time. People don't post about/remember the good things nearly as often as they remember the bad.

[Manathayria]

lol really? so since no one has rolled on companion loot in my HM's and they have in yours, its common? Biased much?

 

You can't possibly know what is going to happen with the LFD IN REGARDS TO EQUIPPABLE COMPANIONS since IT DOESN'T EXIST YET, ANYWHERE.

No, but I can tell you what's happened in pugs. It's not common, but yes, it has happened.

[Neiloch]

Well I do agree with not being able to roll need on things you can't use. It's one of those things that just makes me shake my head that its not an automatic release feature. If you cant use it you obviously don't need it, so anyone rolling need is a bit of an a-hole and should be prevented from doing it. If your group has agreed people can get stuff for alts/companions/misc then just tell them to pass.

 

I'm all for people being able to choose intre or cross LFD. But unless LFD comes with cross server day one, if they are adding cross server its because intra-server is not working well.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Neiloch

[Basiliscus]

Anything to entice people to run more of the pve content, rather than just sit in fleet all day queuing for warzones, since its the path of least resistance to gear.

 

2 whole people /lfg in fleet on a saturday evening on a heavy pop.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Basiliscus

[Manathayria]

Understand... I do rather self server - it does generally feel like there is more of a community. However, I feel that if that 'community' is still a ghost town/groups are rare for anyone, cross server is most definitely an option. I do expect us to end up with cross server - but some of it, especially giving people the option to chose self server only is about not 'forcing' people that hate the system into it full stop.

 

When cross server LFD went into effect on WoW there was still quite a bit of resistance to it, but those against it that used general to go LFM were flamed under. Giving them that extra little buffer before it fully drops to cross server only (Which again, I expect, but would like to see some steps between). If people that have been burned by it see enough people that do full cross server that aren't getting burned using it and enjoying it, they may eventually start using a tool like that to it's full potential.

 

I also believe the system should be checking server side and kinda giving preference to people on your own server when possible just because it does help (to a point) with community.

 

Rift is, in a very big sense an exception to the rule with meeting people cross server. They give you free character transfers. Once you transfer, you have a one week cooldown before you can do it again. That means there's a lot less that's going to factor into you moving to be with another group, because you could do it weekly and not have it cost you a dime. That makes a massive difference with friends lists and community. They also don't have a 'global' friends list which seems odd to me with that system in play.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Manathayria

[MalignX]

Thank the Gods they are putting in a LFG system. If you don't want to use it, don't use it.

[Touchbass]

Is it me or the is the quality of posts really going up? We seem to be getting less trolled since we got moved to suggestions.

[BlueSkittles]

Is it me or the is the quality of posts really going up? We seem to be getting less trolled since we got moved to suggestions.

 

Plus I think our logical arguments and willingness to compromise might be drowning some trolls.

[Touchbass]

Plus I think our logical arguments and willingness to compromise might be drowning some trolls.

 

Yeah I haven't seen DevianSlice in ages

[MuNieK]

"While in a group a little kindness goes a long way!" - thats an obsolete WoW's loading tip that was very true before they added anonymous and silent douchebag queues.

However it still works in games without queued, random groups (look: SWTOR). If you use that advice you will never had problems finding company to group and play with.

 

So please insetad of trying to bring SWTOR into douchebag community level, just try being nice to people and make game-buddies or suffer the fate of sociopath and loner you deserve. Dont enforce that fate on everyone, becouse with anonymous queues comes the silent, anti-social, common, mass effect.

 

Build your character's name's reputation and profit from it.

 

-----------

Just copied the OP from other thread i have started that got locked and i was pointed here.

 

After a thought i think server-exclusive LFG system might be good ONLY if it keeps the reputation factor from social way of grouping up. That means for example:

 

Run ends, and everyone is prompted with a reputation rating for group members. That will make nice people ultimately have higher rep than douchebags. Then that rep rating should influence the chances of that player to find a group trough this system (for example people with higher rep gets priority over bad reps ones in the queue). Then add some anti-artificial rep breaking thing like: you may get rating vote only from people that never was on yoru friend list and never been guilded with (account-wise).

Edited January 25, 2012 by MuNieK

[Neiloch]

"While in a group a little kindness goes a long way!" - thats an obsolete WoW's loading tip that was very true before they added anonymous and silent douchebag queues.

However it still works in games without queued, random groups (look: SWTOR). If you use that advice you will never had problems finding company to group and play with.

 

We've already proven dozens of times this does not work on SWTOR for various technical reasons and various playstyles. We are asking for more options not less.

 

If everyone opts to use a DF its because its BETTER. There is no denying this. Otherwise it wouldn't have made it as far as it did in the many games it has ended up in. Every argument against a dungeon finder falls flat to the fact they still exist and they are still being heavily used, and only getting more popular.