Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[Manathayria]

Just copied the OP from other thread i have started that got locked and i was pointed here.

 

After a thought i think server-exclusive LFG system might be good ONLY if it keeps the reputation factor from social way of grouping up. That means for example:

 

Run ends, and everyone is prompted with a reputation rating for group members. That will make nice people ultimately have higher rep than douchebags. Then that rep rating should influence the chances of that player to find a group trough this system (for example people with higher rep gets priority over bad reps ones in the queue). Then add some anti-artificial rep breaking thing like: you may get rating vote only from people that never was on yoru friend list and never been guilded with.

I guarantee you there would be people that would troll/game a system like this. Both by running only with friends to increase their standing before pugging, and with the few jerks that figure out that it's possible to ruin your 'score'. I could easily run with my RL friends without ever adding them as friends in game. Also, this would punish anyone that's been in multiple guilds and left because the guild didn't suit them or were removed due to inactivity (something I've had when I had to take breaks from games for whatever reason). Believe me whatever tools you find to keep it from getting gamed can and will be exploited and avoided on a system like this.

 

I could easily solo up my level 15 on DK to get her maxed and start artificially increasing people's reps like that. I could, infact, actually charge people to 'use' my characters to increase their rep.

 

No. No and No to this system having any bearing on anything in a group, much less showing or being added to the game. I'm sorry, but I knew people that charged 10k+ per 30min run on WoW and made a killing doing it. Doing that for rep runs would absolutely work for someone like that in this game, and as much as I hear some people saying 'money is worthless at high levels' on my server, I'm pretty sure they'd make a massive profit.

 

Edit: I sometimes find people's reps on server through word of mouth, but if I really want to know their rep. I run with them. Artificial systems that give rep are just wrong.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Manathayria

[Frostbird]

I guarantee you there would be people that would troll/game a system like this. Both by running only with friends to increase their standing before pugging, and with the few jerks that figure out that it's possible to ruin your 'score'. I could easily run with my RL friends without ever adding them as friends in game. Also, this would punish anyone that's been in multiple guilds and left because the guild didn't suit them or were removed due to inactivity (something I've had when I had to take breaks from games for whatever reason). Believe me whatever tools you find to keep it from getting gamed can and will be exploited and avoided on a system like this.

 

I could easily solo up my level 15 on DK to get her maxed and start artificially increasing people's reps like that. I could, infact, actually charge people to 'use' my characters to increase their rep.

 

No. No and No to this system having any bearing on anything in a group, much less showing or being added to the game. I'm sorry, but I knew people that charged 10k+ per 30min run on WoW and made a killing doing it. Doing that for rep runs would absolutely work for someone like that in this game, and as much as I hear some people saying 'money is worthless at high levels' on my server, I'm pretty sure they'd make a massive profit.

 

Edit: I sometimes find people's reps on server through word of mouth, but if I really want to know their rep. I run with them. Artificial systems that give rep are just wrong.

 

Server based reps aren't worth a bag of armpits either. If I have a big guild and you don't we can run your name into the ground and defend one of our players easily. If you are a newcomer or a smaller guilds - well, we own you.

 

Yeah, it's this again, but just thought I would give my 20yen on the subject. Had a long chat on /1 last night with a few people while companions were doing their thing and was quite surprised at what came out.

 

Warning! This is likely going to be TL/DR. Will summarize at end.

 

I will try to go about this post a little differently however. Rather than saying exactly why a Finder is a good thing, I will put forward the 5 most common arguments against it and see if I can debunk them a little.

 

1) Manual Group Making Is Good For Server Community.

 

The one I hear the most. Basically "if you force playes to manually search out other players to group with, they are more likely to interact and form lasting ties". Sounds good I guess...but in reality it doesn't happen.

 

In games without Finders, putting together a pug goes like this:

- Spend 10-40 minutes spamming channels looking for people during which time you can't do anything else really.

- Spend 5 minutes sorting out roles and loot rules.

- Spend 10-20 minutes getting everyone to the instance entrance.

- Spend 30 minutes doing the instance.

 

In games with Finders, it's basically.

- Spend 5 minutes in queue. You can do dailies etc. while in queue.

- Spend 30 minutes doing the instance.

 

I've been pretty good about doing every bit of group content in this game as I've levelled, ditto other MMOs. I've been lucky thus far because lots of people are levelling. In a few months there won't be.

 

In manual groups, you know what a run is like? 2/4/5/8/16 people shlepping through the instance, whether it's a server group or not. People are polite enough usually, but any attempt at being 'social' is generally met with what amounts to 'shut up and tank/heal/dps'.

Reason being - people want to get content done. If they want to socialize, they can join a guild, chat over /w or speak on a channel.

 

Server community is a myth. If you *really* want to stimulate it, add incentives to grouping from people wth your realm - guild rewards, social points etc. Add invasions and events that encourage pugging. Keep top tier content guild exclusive and make sure there is enough of it.

 

But to lock all group content away behind this 'spam channel for an hour or get a guild' door is going to bite you hard in a few months when new/leveling players have no one to do it with.

 

2) Manual Group Making Stops Griefers and Ninjas.

 

Because the 'server community' will blacklist them, right? Wrong. No one cares. They didn't care in WoW or other games either, aside from those with small, generally mature communities (DCUO, LOTRO, DNDO). In the last 2 weeks I've had a fair few people simply follow the group without doing anything much (dual boxers? bots?). I've had griefers and people who /need on everything. I've had obnoxious 'don't effing tell me how to play or I'll track you down brah' types trying to tank on Agents.

 

I've told the 'community' in /1. I was told to go back to Republic. I was told to QQ more. I was even spammed flames by the guy I 'reported' and his guild, and then accused by the guild of being a ninja over /1 as payback.

 

Jerks will be jerks and a self policing playerbase does not exist in a game this big. You get rid of problem elements with /ignore, moderation and systems that stop them from being jerks. 'Self Policing Community' is too open to abuse and apathy.

 

3) Additional Overhead Keeps Casuals Out.

 

As if 'Casualism" was some evil political movement that must be stamped out AT ALL COSTS. The basic argument going something along the lines of "if you make everything inconvinient and obtuse, then only players who are *really* dedicated will bother" and so "if you make anything more convinient it will attract bad and lazy players".

 

I've done the hardcore thing back in BC/Wrath. You know what I wanted to do between raids? Spend the maximum amount of time *playing* the game and not faffing around with overhead.

 

I'm pretty casual now. You know what I want to do when I get home from work? Spend the maximum amount of time *playing* the game and not faffing around with overhead.

 

All you do by not including a Finder is force people to spam channels to find a group, in which case it depends on RNG, server population and what class they rolled. Once the game has been out for a while, it also effectively shuts out new players from non current content, especially on less populated servers.

 

Or of course, see below.

 

4) Manual Group Making Makes People Join Guilds.

 

The good old "get a guild" argument. Argh.

 

In my 8 years of playing MMOs some of my best memories are of guilds. However, some of my very worst memories are of guilds too.

 

A guild is (well should be) a group of people who choose to make an organized social group based on some shared goal. Whether this is some special interest, endgame content, organized pvp or just levelling, they usually work fine.

 

When they *don't* work is when people are essentially forced to join them (see Trade Unions). You get guilds abusing power. You get people burning out on the game due to not liking the guild they are in, but not feeling like they can quit or play without it.

 

When you force someone to do something they don't want to do, especially if that involves interaction with others, you create problems.

 

For example, back in BC I joined a guild to do leveling content, basically because everyone on the forums was shouting "get a guild!". It was...okay, some very obnoxious people, but I told myself "you need a guild, just deal with it".

 

There was also a small raid group that was just starting to run Kara to gear up. I was interested in raiding, and eventually, after 2 weeks of max level I was one of the tanks.

 

However said guild ran at a time that became increasingly troublesome for me. After another week I announced that I was applying at another guild. I was met with abuse, threats, a gkick and a spiteful email send to the leader of the other guild that I was a bank ninja.

 

The point being, guilds are a good thing as long as they are optional. Making them mandatory to effectively do group content (aside from the extremely hard top tier content) turns them into a bad thing.

 

5) Finders Empty The World.

 

Because everyone sits in a city in queues, right?

 

Well, is this really so different to 'everyone spends 20 minutes making a beeline for instance entrance x'? Again, all this does is add overhead and wastes time. The leveling world will empty out.

 

In fact, with things as they are, if you want to get a group for endgame content you damn well won't be out in the world anyway. Why? Because the groups are formed in the main hubs.

 

TL/DR.

 

Server community is built by incentives for pugging and moderation of problem elements. A Finder is a very important tool in keeping an MMO accessible and enjoyable by the widest spectrum of players. All it's removal does is add an extra level of overhead and RNG to experiencing group conent, and telling people 'get a guild' turns guilds into a tool/chore/union rather than a voluntary shared social experience.

 

If you want to give rewards for manual groupmaking and same-server cooperation, go nuts. Expand your Social Points system and don't let the Finder reward it. Keep top tier content away from Finders too, if you want.

 

But for leveling group content and the 'gearing phase' of endgame, they are something that will be drastically needed in a few months.

 

Thanks for reading.

- The Bird

[AeonWeapon]

This is the first with equip-able mercs, however

 

Atlantica Online had equippable mercs, and you had up to 8 with you at once, you could recruit 20 total. You could team with 2 other players, and each of them had 8 mercs with them, for 27 characters in your party. They solved any loot issues by auto-distributing loot equally.

 

Just saying

 

Neither TOR nor WoW invented the wheel, look under the surface at games other than just the more popular mainstream ones and you'll find alot of great MMOs that just have less recognition but have alot of great ideas... and alot of good tested solutions to problems (I still think TOR could learn a wealth of good ideas from City of Heroes.)

[AeonWeapon]

Great post Frostbird ^ Edited January 25, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[jndca]

For people who have no problem finding groups...

 

why would you be against something that could help the community? YOU wouldn't have to use it. YOU wouldn't have to know about it. YOU could just ignore the LFG tool altogether and spam general chat. I have no problem with that. Just let the rest of us have an LFG tool that actually works well. ( a dungeon finder). I don't feel entitled, i just think it's a good idea in an MMORPG. Some people can't find guilds they want to group with every single day. Some people DONT like having to spam general chat. Some people DO have a hard time finding groups of 4 people.

So the question is.. what would it hurt? Community?

I think not. In fact it could bring the community closer together by identifying that different people need the same dungeon, allowing these people to group together and not have to worry about the trolling and spamming that can happen on general chat.

 

Just saying.

[MuNieK]

I guarantee you there would be people that would troll/game a system like this. Both by running only with friends to increase their standing before pugging

 

You are such a defeatist... and so wrong. I wont even write 50 lines of counterarguments to what you just wrote, becouse you should realise that yourself. Let me just cast a bit of light on that for you:

That system can be fraud-safe by its very nature... The more you use pugs the more vulnerable for its rating you are, if you run pugs that means you need them, why would you be a douche in pug to lower your pug rating just so you can find friends to not add to friendlist to pump up rating so you can be douche in pugs again to lower its rating and chance of gaining pug that you need? And pug finder by its nature is for lazy people, not to the masters of being anti-system for all costs just for the sake of it.

 

Dont try to find a hole in the whole. I would say: They could add restriction to only 1 vote from particular person per week aswell, but its totally unneccesary, cause the more you need pugs, the less you can artificially manipulate your ratings with it, if such rating system would be implemented.

Edited January 25, 2012 by MuNieK

[MalignX]

"While in a group a little kindness goes a long way!" - thats an obsolete WoW's loading tip that was very true before they added anonymous and silent douchebag queues.

However it still works in games without queued, random groups (look: SWTOR). If you use that advice you will never had problems finding company to group and play with.

 

So please insetad of trying to bring SWTOR into douchebag community level, just try being nice to people and make game-buddies or suffer the fate of sociopath and loner you deserve. Dont enforce that fate on everyone, becouse with anonymous queues comes the silent, anti-social, common, mass effect.

 

Build your character's name's reputation and profit from it.

"

 

 

You do not have to use the LFG system if you choose not to. Rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because you don't like the supposed effects you claim it had in some other game. I promise it'll be really easy for you to ignore. You go spend hours chatting up tanks and healers, I'll just queue for a Flashpoint, thank you.

[MuNieK]

Frostbird you forgot about:

 

Non-anonymous goup finding let the reputation system work its part, increasing the quality of gameplay for all of us by limiting douchebags viral behavior, and encouraging forming healthy relation swith community.

 

And it does work. If you never ever witnessed good community in mmorpg then maybe your perception was flawed, or you simply never cared about comminuty. You make an argument about community condition and follows it with explication of group forming brought down to minutes of waiting and game mechanics related with it.

 

Its clear you never cared about communication with people other than shortest possible commands neccesary to finish a run treating manual groupping and pug grouping as "let me get those bots already so i can do the run".

[jndca]

Frostbird you forgot about:

 

Non-anonymous goup finding let the reputation system work its part, increasing the quality of gameplay for all of us by limiting douchebags viral behavior, and encouraging forming healthy relation swith community.

 

And it does work. If you never ever witnessed good community in mmorpg then maybe your perception was flawed, or you simply never cared about comminuty. You make an argument about community condition and follows it with explication of group forming brought down to minutes of waiting and game mechanics related with it.

 

Its clear you never cared about communication with people other than shortest possible commands neccesary to finish a run treating manual groupping and pug grouping as "let me get those bots already so i can do the run".

 

The problem is, douchebags will always find ways of circumtventing the system. EVERY time. You will find guilds with douchebags. People will try to throw them out of the guild but oh no, this guy is my buddy and i can't throw him out. Actually the general chat is the worst place to find groups because you really have no idea who you're getting, unless you are in a guild yourself. Now, are you saying people who aren't in a guild shouldn't be playing? Are you? Are you saying that guildless players are useless and shouldn't have the fun of finding a group because they can't find someone in general chat? I for one am in a guild but i also like playing solo as well. is there something inherently wrong with me? Am i not as elite as guild or raid players are? Just a question. I play this game for fun and that is really all i want. To have fun. And having fun is having a dungeon finder.

[MalignX]

And pug finder by its nature is for lazy people, not to the masters of being anti-system for all costs just for the sake of it..

 

You say lazy. We say people with better uses for their time.

[MuNieK]

You do not have to use the LFG system if you choose not to. Rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because you don't like the supposed effects you claim it had in some other game. I promise it'll be really easy for you to ignore. You go spend hours chatting up tanks and healers, I'll just queue for a Flashpoint, thank you.

 

Its not that simple my simple-thinking fellow. Its like saying lets remove the law's punishments and you go ahead still obey the law, and i will just rob someone. Dont you see the purpose of the law? - Its same with reputation in the game. Its game's natural law that rewards you for being nice to otherplayers, and punishes you for being douchebag.

 

If you want to be surrounded by douchebags in the game you play, then go ahead, try to enforce Bioware to implemennt responsibility-free, reputation-free, anonymous LFG tool and enjoy douchebag enviroment that will come with it. Just keep in mind that, when you are surrounded by douchebags for long time, you will slowly start acting like them, turning yourself into one of them.

 

You say lazy. We say people with better uses for their time.

sorry, that was just thoughts' shortcut. Im saying that people who want pug, dont have time to do more time consuming things to beat the reputation system of course.

 

You have like/dislike on youtube, and yet it works fine. Thing is, that if some people gonna for example on purpose lower rating of all other players then whats the big deal? everyone's rating gonna be lowered... They will get their rating lowered by other people who wanna lower all other people's rating. Yet still, there will be people who will vote accordindgly to what they see, giving "+" to some people and "-" to other. The more you will do pugs, the more work you wouldhave to do to significantly manipulate the system. And it would be very very very hard, just pointless

Edited January 25, 2012 by MuNieK

[jndca]

Its not that simple my simple-thinking fellow. Its like saying lets remove the law's punishments and you go ahead still obey the law, and i will just rob someone. Dont you see the purpose of the law? - Its same with reputation in the game. Its game's natural law that rewards you for being nice to otherplayers, and punishes you for being douchebag.

 

If you want to be surrounded by douchebags in the game you play, then go ahead, try to enforce Bioware to implemennt responsibility-free, reputation-free, anonymous LFG tool and enjoy douchebag enviroment that will come with it. Just keep in mind that, when you are surrounded by douchebags for long time, you will slowly start acting like them, turning yourself into one of them.

 

Again, seeing as you're talking about douchebags, they are EVERYWHERE. You will NOT stop them with a reputation meter or guild reputation system or responsibility. It is impossible. NO MMO i have played has been able to. Are you saying that with a proper LFG tool there will be MORE douchebags? Because i've met a few already and there no LFG tools so.. go figure. I agree with a rep system though. That would be interesting but could very well be abused. And THAT my friend is the problem. Abusing the system to help out your own buddies or prop up your own guild. Don't think it doesn't happen.

So and so guild wants to be "teh leet" so they go around unreping everyone they form a group with. Eventually they ARE "teh leet" guild because they have abused the system to get it. Show me a way to implement a rep system without abuse and ill follow it gladly, but i also want an LFG system that works better than the one right now.

[SubScene]

Needed.signed.

[Frostbird]

Frostbird you forgot about:

 

Non-anonymous goup finding let the reputation system work its part, increasing the quality of gameplay for all of us by limiting douchebags viral behavior, and encouraging forming healthy relation swith community.

 

And it does work. If you never ever witnessed good community in mmorpg then maybe your perception was flawed, or you simply never cared about comminuty. You make an argument about community condition and follows it with explication of group forming brought down to minutes of waiting and game mechanics related with it.

 

Its clear you never cared about communication with people other than shortest possible commands neccesary to finish a run treating manual groupping and pug grouping as "let me get those bots already so i can do the run".

 

 

You know, I've tried on a few occasions to talk to people in LFD in WoW. You know what I got? "Shut up and tank".

 

I've tried to talk to people in this game while doing FPs/Heroics. You know what I got? "Shut up and tank".

 

People don't form Flashpoint/heroic groups to chat or meet people. They do it to finish content. Obviously being polite is a plus, but in the end you want to get your lockout done as fast as possible, as smoothly as possible and with the minimum amount of fuss.

 

Oh, and reputation....

 

Reputation systems that are non automated are too easily abused. Get a big guild on your side and you can basically make your own rep, or trash anyone elses at will whatever the reality of the situation.

 

I've already run into this in game. Some absolute jerk formed a leveling group and was inside the instance. We worked our way through the outside mobs, only to find that inside he wa obviously just drunk or bored - he took off gear and starte pulling mobs. Basically a textbook griefer.

 

The funny part was that when we warned others over /1 I got a whisper from him saying "shut up or me and my guild will ruin you" as well as some ethnic slurs.

 

Sure enough, when I warned /1, not only did no one cared but shortly after I had 7 different people spamming general not to group with my character because I was a ninja (and taunting me over /w).

 

Jerks are going to be jerks. Community Policing never works. To keep the community decent you need to take the 'gateway power' out of the hands of guilds (so a few guilds can't control access to endgame), crack down hard on griefers and incentivize cooperation and *voluntary* server grouping.

 

LFG tools are not a threat to server community and have very little effect on trolling and *******ery. They are a wonderfully convinient tool, especially for newcomers, alters, soloists or people unlucky to roll on a low pop server or at the wrong timezone.

[MalignX]

I'd continue to argue, but they've already said they plan on implementing a LFG system. So it seems moot.

[MuNieK]

so guild wants to be "teh leet" so they go around unreping everyone they form a group with. Eventually they ARE "teh leet" guild because they have abused the system to get it. Show me a way to implement a rep system without abuse and ill follow it gladly, but i also want an LFG system that works better than the one right now.

 

I just said that in previous post:

You think that guild would be the only guild trying to do so? They will ne negating all other peoples rating, and people like them will be doing same to everyone, so they will get hurt by their own sword. Its no matter if average player will have 5/10 reputatoin or 1.2341/10 reputation. If he is OK while pugged he should still be higher than a douchebag. The rep number shoudlnt be visible to avoid misunderstunding of the system's concept.

 

Point is everyone may want to -rep everyone else. But only nice people will get +rep.

 

As i said you would not be able to get rating from people you ever been guilded with or being on their friendlist + only 1 rating per player per week or so. All that filters would be account-wise, not character-wise.

 

For someone using LFG very ofteni t would be impossible to manipulate the rating system other way than acting nice to people he hates - but then still everyone wins

[jndca]

I'd continue to argue, but they've already said they plan on implementing a LFG system. So it seems moot.

 

And that is classified as a win ladies an gentlemen.

[jndca]

I just said that in previous post:

You think that guild would be the only guild trying to do so? They will ne negating all other peoples rating, and people like them will be doing same to everyone, so they will get hurt by their own sword. Its no matter if average player will have 5/10 reputatoin or 1.2341/10 reputation. If he is OK while pugged he should still be higher than a douchebag. The rep number shoudlnt be visible to avoid misunderstunding of the system's concept.

 

Point is everyone may want to -rep everyone else. But only nice people will get +rep.

 

As i said you would not be able to get rating from people you ever been guilded with or being on their friendlist + only 1 rating per player per week or so. All that filters would be account-wise, not character-wise.

 

For someone using LFG very ofteni t would be impossible to manipulate the rating system other way than acting nice to people he hates - but then still everyone wins

 

Something like that might work, and i look forward to them implementing something like that. Or at least trying. Again, though, nothing is going to change and douchebags will always be there and no one seems to care a crap about anything said in general chat, if it be nice and polite or rude and indignant.

[MuNieK]

People don't form Flashpoint/heroic groups to chat or meet people. They do it to finish content. Obviously being polite is a plus, but in the end you want to get your lockout done as fast as possible, as smoothly as possible and with the minimum amount of fuss.

 

Only if you dont take interacting with other, living players as the part of game's content. What are you doign here playing mmorpg in such case? You could play with bots, doing content single-player way with the only "multiplayer" thing that interests you: leaderboard.

[Sai-to]

The problem here is that many people who say, "We need a dungeon finder" are specifically talking about the LFD in WoW. And many of us who have played other MMOs in addition to WoW recognize that it's a horrible implementation.

 

The following would be a good way to improve the existing LFG tool:

 

 

1) Group leader opens a "Party listing".

2) In the party listing, Leader can specify roles needed and how many. Or just leave them open. In addition, leader can make specific comments for clarification.

3) Players who are LFG can open a "LFG listing". In this LFG listing, they can specify the role they wish to play, and specify content they are looking for.

4) The LFG system then "matches" them. When a match is found, the Player can "Apply" to the group in question. Leader receives a pop-up message and either accepts or denies.

 

 

And, of course, no Cross-server BS. Save that for the PvP.

[MuNieK]

Something like that might work, and i look forward to them implementing something like that. Or at least trying. Again, though, nothing is going to change and douchebags will always be there and no one seems to care a crap about anything said in general chat, if it be nice and polite or rude and indignant.

 

As i said already: There is a douchebag in each of us. The game design may encourage us to be nice and gain profit from being nice, turning game enviroment into nice place, or encourage us to be sociopathic douchebags rewarding the fastest and easisest way, turning game enviroment into horrid place i would never let my childs be in.

 

We are all egoistic (if we are smart), but it woudlnt hurt to also be nice to other people and having them being nice to you while you relax. Why being nice? At least becouse you gain profit from that. - and now it woudlnt work if reputation woudlnt play any role.

Edited January 25, 2012 by MuNieK

[Genesizs]

I think there are 6 different groups of people in regards to this issue

 

1) People who only play at prime time and don't recognize this as a issue

 

2) People on low population/republic servers that are screaming "save me"

 

3) People who play 4-5 hours per session so prolonged group making isn't an issue

 

4) People who are fine with not being able to run a group if no one is available

 

5) People who have limited playtime and can't afford to waste time meandering around

 

6) The lazy, bad apple part of the population that ruins communities

 

I wish people would realize that the majority of people asking for LFD are 2) and 5), not 6)

 

i know right , been trying to explain this on multiple treads on this topic , but some people are so hardheaded , label you troll , question your social skills , even been accused of being a ninja and everyone on my server has me on ignore couse he couldnt find another reason for me not finding a group becouse HE could , lol

 

well this problem is real on some servers , i vote yes for a LFD tool , or at least in short notice , some server merges or free char transfers , anything !

 

also your post pretty much explained why i vote yes for LFD as also for other people reasons so no need to repeat my whole story again .. you pretty much nailed it ... for everyone ;p

Edited January 25, 2012 by Genesizs

[Frostbird]

Only if you dont take interacting with other, living players as the part of game's content. What are you doign here playing mmorpg in such case? You could play with bots, doing content single-player way with the only "multiplayer" thing that interests you: leaderboard.

 

I definately didn't say that interacting with others is taboo - in fact I've been making an effort to do more of it, especially in WOW. Generally anything more that "hi there" or "konnichiwa" (aside from needed strats/cc targets/boss mech) gets people telling me to go or go away.

 

To most players a pug group isn't formed for socialization purposes. It's formed to do content - as a team - with other living players. IE, multiplayer. Not IM.

 

Trying to socialize is like joining a pick-up basketball/soccer game and rather than playing standing around chatting to the other players.

[Uruare]

Given what I do for a living and my educational background qualifying me to do it, I...

 

...am amused, entertained and left with a few sarcastic quips I shall, at this time, refrain from dispensing with in regard of several things.

 

 

Though, to add something beyond the merely commentative and to flirt perilously with the constructive, it has been pointed out in myriad ways, and can readily be seen to self-evidence for purposes of verification, that most people are not farming dungeon-quality flashpoint content for the social aspect.

 

 

Simply stated, pretty much nobody is going to give a crap what you think. Shut up and tank; shut up and DPS; shut up and heal. Don't roll on other peoples' stuff. If there are agreed-upon loot rules before the pulling starts, abide by them. Don't blow your stack if someone goes into douchenozzle mode and rolls Need on everything and replies with 'lol u mad?' if called on it.

 

 

The ignore function is, more or less, permanent. Ignore them. It might not feel like a suitably revenging thing to do, but let it be enough.

 

For your own sake. For your peace of mind's sake.

 

 

Now, an LFD tool. It's coming. Personally, I like the idea. I couldn't give a spit in the ocean less if it's intra-server or server exclusive.

 

Whatever lets me run more dungeons when I dang well want to loot farm gets my vote.

 

Why? Shut up and tank.

[Frostbird]

The problem here is that many people who say, "We need a dungeon finder" are specifically talking about the LFD in WoW. And many of us who have played other MMOs in addition to WoW recognize that it's a horrible implementation.

 

Really? DCUO's system apes WoW's and is pretty fantastic. Please find me say 10 links to this 'many' you claim to speak for - almost everyone pro automated-finder seems to agree that WoW's is as good as you get right now.

 

The following would be a good way to improve the existing LFG tool:

 

1) Group leader opens a "Party listing".

2) In the party listing, Leader can specify roles needed and how many. Or just leave them open. In addition, leader can make specific comments for clarification.

3) Players who are LFG can open a "LFG listing". In this LFG listing, they can specify the role they wish to play, and specify content they are looking for.

4) The LFG system then "matches" them. When a match is found, the Player can "Apply" to the group in question. Leader receives a pop-up message and either accepts or denies.

 

 

Or just go full automated. This has exactly 0% more social interaction and is just more overhead.

 

And, of course, no Cross-server BS. Save that for the PvP.

 

So, people who don't play on primary Timezones or were unlucky enough to roll on underpopulated servers may as well just quit? For the sake of some nonexistant "server community". Sod that.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Frostbird