Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[Vitiock]

Those alternatives aren't based upon what others choose, either. Bad comparison.

 

It's coming back to 'I like to play same server so force everyone else to do it too.' No different than saying I like playing a tank so restrict other people from making tanks so I am in more demand.

 

People don't opt to use LFD because it's LESS satisfying for them than putting together groups. People using it much more than any other method, thus making the other methods obsolete wouldn't be possible if it weren't inherently better. If x-server was so bad it would have failed and people would have went back to putting their own groups together. The very fact that cross server has continued to exist is a testament to how much better it is.

 

You CAN NOT force people into your preferred style of play. They will either demand it be changed or leave outright. Aion tried to entice PvE players with their first 20 levels and started easing them into a style that was PvP heavy. This did not work well, instead of conforming they just left.

Honestly I don't give you enough credit Neiloch. This post is so dripping with reality that it is scary. I would honestly like to see someone disagree with this with a strong rebuttal.

 

Well here we go. I think satisfaction has nothing to do with the reason people use a LFD tool, most people use it because blizzard turned dungeons in to a grind and the LFD was the most efficient tool to get the job done. The satisfaction these people get is from obtaining gear, not from doing a dungeon with some random stranger. In wow if you could get equal/better gear more quickly by soloing I guarantee that it would be more popular than doing dungeons through LFD. We can also observe peoples habits, I know that in my guild that once people reached the max level of gear they could obtain from dungeons they stopped doing them except to help a friend out. Under the assumption that LFD is more satisfying than grouping up on sever we would never see someones grouping habits change based on their level of gear.

 

So really this is not an argument about which is more satisfactory, it's an argument about ease of access, which the LFD tool has over the current system.

[Umbral]

I think jumping straight to Cross-server queues is a bit extreme, though. Take the first step, first. They should put a single-server queue system in place, before they try tinkering further. Hell, they should put a /lfg channel in. The game doesn't even have THAT basic feature.

 

The issue is time though. Do not believe what the spin doctors of BW might be saying. This game's population has already plummeted. Anyone logging into any server knows that. THE biggest thing that has driven players away has been the frustrations caused by having to spend inordinate amounts of time forming groups to do what is for the majority the most fun content in any mmo. More people than bugs, sharding, ques, and all the other issues put together.

 

People with vast experience in playing mmos (as opposed to people apparently with just vast experience theorizing about mmos) know, without any doubts, that a server only system will be just as bad as not having any system at all. It's been that way in every game that's tried the server only first, and there is nothing about SWTOR that would cause that to be any different. The pools of players on most individual servers will just not be big enough. So that's wasting time getting to what is eventually going to be needed anyway. Time where another large chunk of SWTOR's already diminished subscription base finally have enough of the frustration and to go back to games where they can easily group up and do the most fun content.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Umbral

[Neiloch]

 

 

Well here we go. I think satisfaction has nothing to do with the reason people use a LFD tool, most people use it because blizzard turned dungeons in to a grind and the LFD was the most efficient tool to get the job done. The satisfaction these people get is from obtaining gear, not from doing a dungeon with some random stranger. In wow if you could get equal/better gear more quickly by soloing I guarantee that it would be more popular than doing dungeons through LFD. We can also observe peoples habits, I know that in my guild that once people reached the max level of gear they could obtain from dungeons they stopped doing them except to help a friend out. Under the assumption that LFD is more satisfying than grouping up on sever we would never see someones grouping habits change based on their level of gear.

 

So really this is not an argument about which is more satisfactory, it's an argument about ease of access, which the LFD tool has over the current system.

 

So its not about satisfaction but it's about satisfaction of getting gear? So it IS about satisfaction. Ease of access can also provide satisfaction. In ANY grouping system I never got satisfaction PURELY because I was doing things with strangers. Ever.

 

So we agree progress (or getting gear) is satisfying. LFD provides progress quicker and it's more accessible, therefore proving itself a better delivery system of that satisfaction. Since LFD provides that satisfaction better, LFD itself is more satisfying.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Neiloch

[Touchbass]

most people use it because blizzard turned dungeons in to a grind and the LFD was the most efficient tool to get the job done..

 

If dungeons weren't a grind and were an elongated experience of majesty and personal growth we wouldn't need the LFD. The fact is dungeons changed fundamentally from their onset to what they stand for in current MMORPG's. So yeah I 100% agree with your statement but it doesn't disprove what Neiloch said that I highlighted. They kind of go together actually. As long as dungeons stand for what they do now, Neiloch has one hell of a point.

 

I don't think many players go into dungeons for the 'enjoyment' of them after you beaten enough times for your indivdual threshold. The more of a challenge a dungeon becomes the more of a pain is is to redo them for other guildies and requires bringing certain classes for interupts/CC's ... the whole thing becomes a giant waste of time and any new applicants to your guild your gonna ask them to do that **** on thier own before they apply.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Touchbass

[Aethyrprime]

I see no problems in cross server match-making. I've been online gaming in mmos since the 1990s and I can tell you every game should do it that is a theme-park style game such as this. The problem is not having friends, it's having friends "the exact same level as you". Everyone takes their own time to level, explore, collect, experience a game. Some go faster than others so a person who might have several friends that they were the same level as will be left behind if those people don't literally wait or run them through lower level content. I am one of those people who is in a guild that's decent sized. We have a couple battlemasters, lots of champions and then everyone else.. That everyone else is not really doing most of the dungeons because they can't find a team for it. I keep running lowbies through dungeons because it seems to be the only way they will get to see it. Most have resigned to simply "not doing them at all" because it's too much of a P.I.T.A. to get a proper team together of people who need it.

 

Cross server "Dungeon Finder" or bust.

 

If BW listens to the "DON'T DO IT" crowd; The game will suffer a slow death like all other MMOs to date which have not done it since this feature first emerged in the market.

[Touchbass]

I see no problems in cross server match-making. I've been online gaming in mmos since the 1990s and I can tell you every game should do it that is a theme-park style game such as this. The problem is not having friends, it's having friends "the exact same level as you". Everyone takes their own time to level, explore, collect, experience a game. Some go faster than others so a person who might have several friends that they were the same level as will be left behind if those people don't literally wait or run them through lower level content. I am one of those people who is in a guild that's decent sized. We have a couple battlemasters, lots of champions and then everyone else.. That everyone else is not really doing most of the dungeons because they can't find a team for it. I keep running lowbies through dungeons because it seems to be the only way they will get to see it. Most have resigned to simply "not doing them at all" because it's too much of a P.I.T.A. to get a proper team together of people who need it.

 

Cross server "Dungeon Finder" or bust.

 

If BW listens to the "DON'T DO IT" crowd; The game will suffer a slow death like all other MMOs to date which have not done it since this feature first emerged in the market.

 

 

 

Thank you for thoughts on the matter Aethyprime. Dungeons are the bane of low level guildies. Almost nobody did them in WoW cause it was too much of a P.I.T.A as you say.

[BlueSkittles]

I like all of the fast food analogies from earlier. Yes, a LFD cross server system may seem like McDonalds fast food to some people, but it's the best ********n meal a lot of us have had all day. It's fast, easy, convenient and makes us full and happy. Just like a cross-server LFD and LFR have done for WoW.

 

Now the reverse, the "community" people are like the *********** vegan ******es I see out there who want to force a lifestyle onto people. Yes, to YOU it may seem like the best thing for your body/soul/the-universe/karma/good-feelings/vishnu but to us it just tastes bad, doesn't make us full, and forces us to have to wait hours to find the "right" food, cook it for another hour, then take an hour to eat it. Then when we **** it out, we have to make friends with it and cry and sing kumbaya that we had such a good time.

 

All the while I've run another dozen dungeons, had fun times with 9 out of 10 of them, and got some decent loot in the process (and in SWTOR's case, some decent social points).

 

(And I actually don't like McDonalds IRL, btw, but LOVE LFD)

 

Also, not everyone has the same definition of Ninja. We need to get past that as a "community".

 

And I do like the anonymity of cross-server LFD. Not to be a bad player (which some of you seem to assume) but to give me a shield in which to be myself or to be the fly on the wall at the party. Just there to help out as needed, but don't want to intrude on anyone's good time. Which by the silence of a lot of LFD/LFR players, may not be a minority opinion.

Edited January 24, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[AeonWeapon]

There are no "consequences". The only "consequence" that has any effect is a group vote kick system. There is no server policing itself. There is no social pressure. There is none of the manure about there being a deterrent to jerks out there beyond a group vote kick system. The rest is all fantasy from people's heads. It's all theory that people think should prove sound in practice, but simply doesn't work, and never has in any game.

 

Just because someone is from your sever doesn't mean they won't be jerks, or rude, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about them being so beyond putting hem on ignore.

 

This isn't about low pop servers either. I'm on what has to be one of the highest pop servers, and people are having just as hard a a time finding groups.

 

I still think all this worry over running into jerks is pretty paranoid. I've played MMOs for 10 years, and I would say maybe at the most 5% of the people I ran into were jerks. Most really are in the game to have fun and are good sports and fair about things.

 

And it seems to me that it's all the WoW players who are so worried about this. I didn't play WoW, but it's starting to seem to me that maybe that game attracts jerks more than others, I don't know.

 

But I find the ultimate irony is that the people preaching about being social and forming a community are also so paranoid that strangers might be jerks to them... that kind of paranoia and fear that the strangers are out to get you is antisocial behavior if anything is.

[AeonWeapon]

I went away for 2 hours and this thread grew 6 pages. I hope the developers are taking notice of how important this issue is to the community. This may be the most important thing that needs to be added to the game, because so many of us, especially at end game, are finding the game impossible to play.

[SethMcloud]

Even if a Dungeon Finder option isn't put into this game I would highly suggest making the LFG option more obvious. I love the LFG option.

 

I playing some of the original WoW and while yes after a time finding a group to run lower level instances was hard due to natural game progression, and most where high level it required me to be more social. Maybe ask for a run through from high levels. That helped people who were in guilds recruit actual new players as well at times. Not just lowbie characters.

 

In WoW though the LFG option had its own button and screen. It wasn't just built into the /who screen in a (sorry BW love the game but) sloppy manner. I do however LOVE that it puts the little LFG icon beside your name. VERY helpful. The main issue with this is that its so out of the way that many players either don't know about it or don't care to use it because they know not many know about it. They are just gonna look for the guy spamming chat.

[Vitiock]

Even if a Dungeon Finder option isn't put into this game I would highly suggest making the LFG option more obvious. I love the LFG option.

 

I playing some of the original WoW and while yes after a time finding a group to run lower level instances was hard due to natural game progression, and most where high level it required me to be more social. Maybe ask for a run through from high levels. That helped people who were in guilds recruit actual new players as well at times. Not just lowbie characters.

 

In WoW though the LFG option had its own button and screen. It wasn't just built into the /who screen in a (sorry BW love the game but) sloppy manner. I do however LOVE that it puts the little LFG icon beside your name. VERY helpful. The main issue with this is that its so out of the way that many players either don't know about it or don't care to use it because they know not many know about it. They are just gonna look for the guy spamming chat.

 

The current LFG option doesn't work and i'll give you a simple example of the type of behavior that prevents it from working. I as a tank want a group, do I spend my time scrolling through stuff to find someone when half the people left it on after finding a group/are afk/are saved but forgot, or do I walk in to the fleet say LF3M 1 heals 2 dps HM FE, and get 20 responses, and spend 10 seconds sorting that. Also there is no way to figure out whose been looking for a group and who hasn't so it means that some people will spend 5 minutes looking for a group while someone with same gear/class could spend 2 hours just based on pure luck.

[AeonWeapon]

This isn't about that 1 person, it's a numbers game. If the population is smaller blocking 1 jerk reduces my chances of being places with jerks by a much larger margin than if the population is larger. There are always going to be jerks and there is nothing you can do about it, the difference is, with local server you have a much smaller number of jerks where cross server it seems like you have an endless sea of them and you have to block many more than self server to get the same reduction in frequency.

 

If the population is smaller, it also greatly reduces the chance of being able to form a team and play the content in a reasonable time.

 

No matter how you analyze it, jerks are a small percentage of players, you're just fixating on them.

 

I would rather team with the occasional jerk than spend an hour forming a team or never get a team at all.

 

If you want to talk about numbers... there's numbers on my clock, and they're ticking away. I can't waste too many of THOSE numbers.

[AeonWeapon]

After 12+ years playing mmos, with sooo many characters on soooo many different servers, I personally have found that the chances of finding good people to group with are much much greater with a cross-server lfg system.

 

Then again, the other thing I've found over that time? The people that are the most concerned with "punishing" other players, and the "social conditioning" of other players, etc etc?

 

Ya, in the end THEY are the ones you really want to avoid grouping with.

 

Quoted for truth, justice and the American way

 

Don't be a fascist. Stop trying to punish and condition people.

 

I think part of the problem is that people are so over-sensitive. Yeah you're going to run into the occasional jerk, that happens in real life too, especially if you live in New York city like me lol. But... it doesn't have to ruin your mood, it doesn't have to hurt your feelings, it doesn't have to shatter your ego... Just /ignore and move on. If you let every jerk ruin your day, you're going to ruin your own life. Get over it. And if you're so worried about jerks all the time that you're paranoid and afraid of strangers... well, that's not very conducive to a healthy social environment.

[AeonWeapon]

Fact of the matter is by your own admission even after these bad experiences YOU KEPT USING IT. Without even knowing it you have PROVEN that the benefits of x-LFD outweigh the negatives. (i'm not talking to any one person in particular)

 

Perfect logic.

 

Yes... if it's so bad, why do you use it? If you don't want to use it, don't, let the rest of us enjoy our time with limited downtime in our playing experience.

[evildestroyer]

When rift added the Cross Server LFG, it made many new people stay to play the game or older players to make new characters.

I remember before they added XLFG it was just a pain and took a lengthy time to find a group i just gave up on dungeons then XLFG came and i loved it.

 

I see nothing wrong with a XLFG system. Heck when Rift added the XLFG, i was doing a dungeon with 4 other people in the same guild on another server, we worked so well together i ended up xfering to their server and joined their guild.

 

Like i said before, XLFG will save SWTOR, without it, this game will die. A XLFG will be a savior to those that play on less populated server. Its a fact. End of Story.

[AeonWeapon]

Random, anonymous hookups are never as satisfying as building a lasting relationship.

 

I've had enough experience with women in my love life to know that in certain real life "relationships" this just does not turn out to be true. Things are often better in life when you keep them simple. Complicating things leads to complex problems. We want serious relationships to be more satisfying, but are usually in reality? There are as many unhappy couples as happy ones, and divorce is extremely common.

 

Random hookup = 100% of the experience is fun

Long term relationship = have to go through all, the rough times, the boring times, the occasional drama, to enjoy the fun times. The whole experience is not fun, just part of it. Also that person becomes too important because you have limited your options.

 

And I believe this holds metaphorical meaning to the issue at hand. I think it's more fun to have fun, casual, gaming interactions with other players, have good experiences with them, than to rely on maintaining deep, complex connections with people in order to have fun. When there's less options, your presence is required by those people at certain times, in certain raids all the time if you're going to maintain that relationship.

Edited January 24, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[AeonWeapon]

I like all of the fast food analogies from earlier. Yes, a LFD cross server system may seem like McDonalds fast food to some people, but it's the best ********n meal a lot of us have had all day. It's fast, easy, convenient and makes us full and happy. Just like a cross-server LFD and LFR have done for WoW.

 

Now the reverse, the "community" people are like the *********** vegan ******es I see out there who want to force a lifestyle onto people. Yes, to YOU it may seem like the best thing for your body/soul/the-universe/karma/good-feelings/vishnu but to us it just tastes bad, doesn't make us full, and forces us to have to wait hours to find the "right" food, cook it for another hour, then take an hour to eat it. Then when we **** it out, we have to make friends with it and cry and sing kumbaya that we had such a good time.

 

HAH! Best friggin analogy in the history of the freaking internet lol.

[AeonWeapon]

When rift added the Cross Server LFG, it made many new people stay to play the game or older players to make new characters.

I remember before they added XLFG it was just a pain and took a lengthy time to find a group i just gave up on dungeons then XLFG came and i loved it.

 

I see nothing wrong with a XLFG system. Heck when Rift added the XLFG, i was doing a dungeon with 4 other people in the same guild on another server, we worked so well together i ended up xfering to their server and joined their guild.

 

Like i said before, XLFG will save SWTOR, without it, this game will die. A XLFG will be a savior to those that play on less populated server. Its a fact. End of Story.

 

See.... some people have had good experiences with cross server teaming, and have even *gasp* made social connections lol

[AeonWeapon]

Hey, this thread got buried, that's not cool lol

 

/bump

[Neiloch]

Well it seems at the very least people want a server only LFD system, indicated by the many pages of this thread. I can only hope this will expedite the addition of such a system. I say they got about 2 weeks before people really start jumping ship.

[AeonWeapon]

Well it seems at the very least people want a server only LFD system, indicated by the many pages of this thread. I can only hope this will expedite the addition of such a system. I say they got about 2 weeks before people really start jumping ship.

 

Like I said, I bought a 60 day time card, which began ticking down after the 30 days that came with the game, I have 57 days left. Bioware has exactly 57 days to put this feature in the game if they want me personally to buy any more game time, and I have a feeling that there's alot of other players on the same calendar as me, people who bought the game + 60 day card.

 

And I'll be very annoyed even if they do put it in but it takes a month or two, because I'm wasting my 57 days, sitting at level 50, unable to do any of the endgame content because I can't waste an hour in hopes of finding a team and likely not even get one. This should have been in at launch, and it should be hotfixed into the game some time in the next couple weeks, not added in the March patch!

Edited January 24, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[BlueSkittles]

The following link is how I think most "community" people act to get groups together or whatever (from mintchiplol Twitter "This is why being a female in a video game is not cool /most/ of the time."):

https://twitter.com/#!/Mintchiplol/status/161936138943217665/photo/1

[AeonWeapon]

The following link is how I think most "community" people act to get groups together or whatever (from mintchiplol Twitter "This is why being a female in a video game is not cool /most/ of the time."):

https://twitter.com/#!/Mintchiplol/status/161936138943217665/photo/1

 

LOL

 

"You must socialize with me! We have to be friends! *shake* It's a tight knit commmunity! Come on! Be social! Why aren't you social?! You must be social! *shake*"

 

*get restraining order*

 

Yeah... you can't force people to be your friend... we can be cool and all and play a game together, but we don't have to be lovey dovey BFFs forever. That's what real life is for... sometimes

 

Personally sometimes I find dealing with friends and girlfriends in real life and maintaining relationships to be trying, to be work, to keep me from important things I need to do for myself, and in a game I'm not looking for any of the work, any of the seriousness, any of the responsibilities or requirements of real life. In a game I'm escaping real life for a while to do something mindless and fun which does not require alot of my mental or emotional energy.

Edited January 24, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[BlueSkittles]

LOL

 

"You must socialize with me! We have to be friends! *shake* It's a tight knit commmunity! Come on! Be social! Why aren't you social?! You must be social! *shake*"

 

*get restraining order*

 

Yeah... you can't force people to be your friend... we can be cool and all and play a game together, but we don't have to be lovey dovey BFFs forever. That's what real life is for.

 

The line I like best is: "um okay but thats not the way this guild works btw because ppl in it have to work together". Yep..."community". *********** trolls.

[AeonWeapon]

Weirdest/funniest part to me is:

 

She says: We're not friends

 

He says: Why? just accept it, I'm not going to do anything wrong.

 

Wow, that's just a bit creepy. "Just submit to my friendship, resistance is futile. I'm not going to molest you."

 

Lonely people with no social skills man. So desperate, don't know how to just let a friendship develop, or not, just let it happen if it's going to happen, or not happen. The more you try to force things like friendship, attention, sympathy, the more you will get the opposite of the desired effect, people won't want to be your friend, will ignore you, and won't care about you. I'm guessing this guy doesn't get alot of second dates lol.

Edited January 24, 2012 by AeonWeapon