Macros - ETA?

[Dekutanoth]

I'm not sure what this mouseover business is, but I love healing. I have a blast playing with my Operative and healing on Flashpoints and the like. From what I understand about what a macro is, I'm not a fan at all. I'd rather just do it myself and actually click on the people I want to heal and press the button for the heal I want to use. It has worked just fine so far other than the natural lag from my computer.

 

Edit: I scrolled up and saw this:

 

 

 

 

That about sums up how I feel about the matter.

 

Macros are NOT a crutch. They only become a crutch if they make decisions for you, or automate gameplay. Mouseover macros do NOT make a decision for you. YOU still decide who you want to heal. They do not automate gameplay. YOU still have to initiate the macro at the person you want to heal, it just eliminates the time it takes to click someone. If you think, "oh, its just a split second, it's no big deal," say you cast 50 heals in a boss fight. Not unreasonable. Now say you changed targets 40 times, and each re-target cost you 1/4 of a second. Now, in the middle of a boss fight, sit there and stare at the boss for 10 seconds straight. Yeah, it's a long time, and with mouseovers, you just got that much more efficient.

[Elmiond]

Ok, scenario setup: I want to cast a heal on someone I don't have targetted already, Med Scan, bound to '3'.

 

 

Without Mouseover macro:

• Move mouse over the partymember I want to heal
  
• Press left mouse button
  
• Press 3
  
• Wait for cast bar to finish
  
• Repeat for next target
  

 

 

With Mouseover macro:

• Move mouse over the partymember I want to heal
  
• Press 3
  
• Wait for cast bar to finish
  
• Repeat for next target
  

[Furad]

Ok, scenario setup: I want to cast a heal on someone I don't have targetted already, Med Scan, bound to '3'.

 

 

Without Mouseover macro:

• Move mouse over the partymember I want to heal
  
• Press left mouse button
  
• Press 3
  
• Wait for cast bar to finish
  
• Repeat for next target
  

 

 

With Mouseover macro:

• Move mouse over the partymember I want to heal
  
• Press 3
  
• Wait for cast bar to finish
  
• Repeat for next target
  

 

Why even click on the target when you can click the group icon/window?

 

I mean, did people stand still in WoW?

Edited January 14, 2012 by Furad

[Dekutanoth]

Why even click on the target when you can click the group icon/window?

 

I mean, did people stand still in WoW?

 

Probably what he/she meant. you're just nitpicking.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Dekutanoth

[looneybinjim]

this game needs macros. the game is cumbersome and clunky and damn frustrating at times.

 

in a warzone for instance, as a healer i often get my *** handed because due to the bad server response times, when i click my own avatar, in order to heal myself after ive been healing a group member, the click doesnt input corectly and my target stays the same so i end up still healing my previous target while my own hp are getting dropped. being able to set up a group of focus self heal macros would greatly help me with this, and is the main reason, i personally want macros.

 

for those saying macros make it so you can have 1 button for everything, that is easily circumvented, by simply putting a limit on the amount of command lines any 1 macro can do.

 

there is no reson to not add macros. every other mmo has them, and they allow customisation to the game that is sorely lacking right now.

[Furad]

Probably what he/she meant. you're just nitpicking.

 

No I'm not. I assumed he meant mousing over the actual person...

 

I honestly don't understand some things about WoW and the generation it spawned.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Furad

[Joshwake]

Just my opinion but i dont see the need for macro's at all. Im doing just fine without em Mainly because i hate having 2 buttons that do everything

 

Second i hope they never introduce mouse over healing makes things too easy imo.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

If you dont see a need... dont use em. simple. They should be available for those that like them though.

[HomeSlixe]

Already have one ... hence my statement of you're not stopping anything. Your guildies are probably using macros and you just don't know it.

 

Nice, me too! ... Maybe you could help me though? Once I start one it keeps playing until done... any way to stop it in its sequence or do you just have to let it play out and hope?

[Elmiond]

Why even click on the target when you can click the group icon/window?

 

I mean, did people stand still in WoW?

 

-.-' please don't misread what I wrote. Regardless, neither the game nor the macro cares wether you use the player model or frame

[Szev]

You are still focused on the difficulty level. That is a mistake, and is likely what causing such a drastic gap in the 'debate'.

 

Macros do not alter difficulty. They give the user more control over how the game reacts to keystrokes, and keep the UI clean.

 

They do not make healing (or any role) easier; they make it more fun (for those prefer using them).

 

If you don't want to use them, no one has a problem with that, but stop pretending they're some kind of autopilot that plays the game for people.

 

This is where you are getting all your flak.

 

Certain modifications and macros have in fact made decisions for players.

 

The easiest example being decursive which would automatically cleanse a raid member with a debuff type active on them. This is definitely "autoplaying" as it removes the need for you to pay attention to your raid frames.

 

There are, more fun ones as I posted above such a short period when the WOTLK released where Death Knights could quite literally bind all their abilities to one button, and perform quite well with them. >>>>>>>>>>> NOT OPTIMALLY <<<<<<<<< But still perform, and this is an issue.

 

Mouse-over macros that you are defending are certainly not an example of this. They do not make any decisions for you. If the mouse-over macro was capable of making automatic decisions on click for you, for example as Healbot was many years ago. There was an addon which would smart-pick your "Flat Heals" i.e Flash/Greater/Shock based upon the targets hp percentage. This was tied to a mouse-over, and was another example.

 

But again I am all for macros... Implementation is key. 99% do not make any decisions for you and are only cosmetic changes, which are in the end a good thing.

[SwigMcJigger]

This is where you are getting all your flak.

 

Certain modifications and macros have in fact made decisions for players.

 

The easiest example being decursive which would automatically cleanse a raid member with a debuff type active on them. This is definitely "autoplaying" as it removes the need for you to pay attention to your raid frames.

 

There are, more fun ones as I posted above such a short period when the WOTLK released where Death Knights could quite literally bind all their abilities to one button, and perform quite well with them. >>>>>>>>>>> NOT OPTIMALLY <<<<<<<<< But still perform, and this is an issue.

 

Mouse-over macros that you are defending are certainly not an example of this. They do not make any decisions for you. If the mouse-over macro was capable of making automatic decisions on click for you, for example as Healbot was many years ago. There was an addon which would smart-pick your "Flat Heals" i.e Flash/Greater/Shock based upon the targets hp percentage. This was tied to a mouse-over, and was another example.

 

But again I am all for macros... Implementation is key. 99% do not make any decisions for you and are only cosmetic changes, which are in the end a good thing.

 

 

 

 

Could you please define what a macro is?

[Dekutanoth]

Could you please define what a macro is?

 

It lets you input code through the game's API (advanced programming interface) and bind it to a hotkey that you can press. For example, binding this to the 1 key in WoW,

 

/cast [@mouseover] Heal

 

whenever you press your 1 key, it will try to Heal whoever your mouse is touching.

 

It can also be used to link abilities that do not trigger the GCD (pop all your CDs at once).

 

/cast cooldown1

/cast cooldown2

/use trinket

 

Or, a simple one, a chat macro. Bind this to an icon:

 

/1 LFM BT heroic need 1 healer

 

hit it every 30 seconds, you don't have to type that sentence every time.

[wuat]

I see a lot of people in this thread that have never actually healed at a competitive level. Taking the time to actually click the person is a loss in time overall, resulting in you wasting GCDs over the fight, being able to just mouse over the person and cast immediately is not a 'crutch' it's about optimizing your play. Clicking each player is slow and unnecessary, it's not a case of complex vs simple, it's a case of optimizing your play so that you can do everything needed in the time you're given.

The people who are trying to spout that this would make the game too 'easy' have obviously never actually healed any Higher level progression based raids at a competitive setting in any game, where missing just one global cooldown over the course of 30 seconds can and will cause your raid to wipe.

Edited January 14, 2012 by wuat

[PalawaJoko]

I guess macros would be useful mostly for healers and tanks and actually quite critical for them to manage the cds and gcd as well as possible. Although I haven't tried healing in this game, I tried it in RIFT and the macros helped so much there. I don't see any reason why there should not be macros. Edited January 14, 2012 by PalawaJoko

[Daynja]

I've always enjoyed healing in other MMOs, but I regret to say that it's rather cumbersome in SWTOR. The missing ingredient is mouseover functionality.

 

'course, mouseover healing may not be something that the SWTOR community as a whole cares about, but I'd be willing to bet that atleast a large portion of the healers out there would agree with me; and there's a plethora of other functions that macros serve... probably dont need to discuss the specifics, but there's no doubt that their inclusion into the game is going to be a very positive thing for most players.

 

I know it's been stated that macros would make it into the game at some point post-launch... any chance we could get some specifics of when that might be?

 

I'm nearing end-game with my 'main' and I'd like to heal with that character, but as it stands healing just isn't fun. I suppose I could put that char on hold for a while and just work on alts until mouseover functionality is provided, but that would be undesirable.

 

 

 

(and I hope this didn't come off as complaining - the game as a whole is outstanding, it just needs a bit of polish.)

 

Couldn't BW just add that functionality into the controls menu without opening up macros to the player base?

[wtfnonamefree]

People who fear the implementation of macrs, because they think it would lead to the creation of I-win-buttons, clearly have no clue about macros...and the game itself.

 

In a gameplay, that features a priority system and a resource system of variable recovery, instead of fixed rotations and a manalike resource, it is always better to decide the next ability yourself.

 

Macros are for convenience and no magic wonder stuff.

 

Edit: The below post is an example of gimping oneself for convenience xD

 

Another one can be found here

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1220552#post1220552

Edited January 14, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[Cubanito-]

40ish Level Sith Jugg macros on a G13 game pad:

 

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh504/Cubanito-/SWTORBindings.png

 

- Rage macro: Enrage + Sundering Assault + Assault

- DPS macro: Starts from Crushing Blow down to Retaliation.

- AOE macro: Smash + Sweeping Slash

- The rest should be self explanatory

 

Most (but not all) of the macros have no internal delays and are prioritized in reverse Rage Consumption/DPS output order.

 

On the G500 Mouse buttons: Targeting, Map, Jump, ect. (obviously with Mouse turning)

 

Such a setup (which is regularly tweaked during leveling and through experience) allows one to concentrate on game play and tactics and NOT stare at 24 combat abilities on 2 wholly insufficient the bars, watching their cooldowns - which IMO seriously degrades situational awareness. But, more importantly, it detracts from the FUN of the game. Note that there are about 15 keys in use on the G13 (macroing about 2x as many abilities) plus those on the mouse all of which still need to be intelligently and efficiently used - far from the 2 key press labotimized pawn-fest some feel macros would create. Personally, 20 is the max I think I could keep in my head and feel i'm being efficient.

 

An advantage in PVP? Obviously. But before you rush to opine on whether this makes the PVE game a bore fest, go to Fry's, Best Buy, etc. Get your self a G13 or the gaming Keyboard of your choice (you can always return it) and try it. THEN decide if your enjoyment level goes up or down. I would bet good $ that being able to play the game with a massive reduction in interface encumbrance will win you over.

 

Whether you like it or not, macros are already part of SWTOR, they are just not internally supported and IMO should be, given the number of abilities and the current GUI. Speaking of which:

 

Good UI design is about transparency: a minimization of barriers between the user's desired actions and the end result. That BTW pretty much summarizes my professional mantra - one that I repeatedly drill into my SW team. And, as a total non-sequetor, if any of my designers ever proposed something like the GTN GUI to me, I would immediately tell them then need to make a different career choice. The GTN interface is frankly embarrassing.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Cubanito-

[Bald_Haliaeetus]

This is where you are getting all your flak.

 

Certain modifications and macros have in fact made decisions for players.

 

The easiest example being decursive which would automatically cleanse a raid member with a debuff type active on them. This is definitely "autoplaying" as it removes the need for you to pay attention to your raid frames.

 

There are, more fun ones as I posted above such a short period when the WOTLK released where Death Knights could quite literally bind all their abilities to one button, and perform quite well with them. >>>>>>>>>>> NOT OPTIMALLY <<<<<<<<< But still perform, and this is an issue.

 

Mouse-over macros that you are defending are certainly not an example of this. They do not make any decisions for you. If the mouse-over macro was capable of making automatic decisions on click for you, for example as Healbot was many years ago. There was an addon which would smart-pick your "Flat Heals" i.e Flash/Greater/Shock based upon the targets hp percentage. This was tied to a mouse-over, and was another example.

 

But again I am all for macros... Implementation is key. 99% do not make any decisions for you and are only cosmetic changes, which are in the end a good thing.

 

Decursive and healbot are add-ons, not macros. I'll agree that some of the add-ons were ridiculous and did in fact automate gameplay, which is unacceptable... I hope bw is diligent about breaking those kinds of add-ons.

 

I can't think of a single example of an in game macro that automates gameplay... The closest would probably be castsequence macros, but even then you have to hit the same number of keystrokes; and using one of those is little different than just going down the action bar hitting 12345etc.

 

Perhaps part of the issue here is that people don't understand the difference between macros and add-ons; and they're judging one based on their dissatisfaction of the other... It's like saying you don't like oranges because you tried an apple and found it too new bitter.

 

[zolthie]

I was hoping 1.1 would give us macros atleast, since it gives us nothing else.

 

Well well, here's hoping for 1.2.

[Twixted]

 

Decursive and healbot are add-ons, not macros. I'll agree that some of the add-ons were ridiculous and did in fact automate gameplay, which is unacceptable... I hope bw is diligent about breaking those kinds of add-ons.

 

I can't think of a single example of an in game macro that automates gameplay... The closest would probably be castsequence macros, but even then you have to hit the same number of keystrokes; and using one of those is little different than just going down the action bar hitting 12345etc.

 

Perhaps part of the issue here is that people don't understand the difference between macros and add-ons; and they're judging one based on their dissatisfaction of the other... It's like saying you don't like oranges because you tried an apple and found it too new bitter.

 

 

 

I see this ignorance all over the forums. It always is someone afraid of:

DBM

Decursive

Recount

[Bald_Haliaeetus]

I see this ignorance all over the forums. It always is someone afraid of:

DBM

Decursive

Recount

 

Well, fortunately bw seems to be able to see passed the ignorance, considering their intention to enable macros "post launch" ... Which brings us back to the start of the thread... ETA? ...plz?

[Kanharn]

BioWare hasn't given us an ETA for macros

 

I think that by the time they add them, it will be too late

 

Not really too late, The longer we wait the more noobs will quit over it.

[Twixted]

Not really too late, The longer we wait the more noobs will quit over it.

 

Great logic there..... lets apply that to all aspects upcoming in the game....

[Kanharn]

Great logic there..... lets apply that to all aspects upcoming in the game....

 

You talk of Logic but then fail to use it lol, Macros are not important and people will not leave over them, unless they are noobs who cant play a game without Noob tools being added to the game.

 

Macros have no relevance on other aspects of the game.

[Kanharn]

 

Well, fortunately bw seems to be able to see passed the ignorance, considering their intention to enable macros "post launch" ... Which brings us back to the start of the thread... ETA? ...plz?

 

Its an irrelevant issue and not important, I would rather have content and fixes then the devs devoting time to noob tools.