Yeah. As someone who's played it for over a year (maybe two?) I definitely know what you mean

I'm still an avid WoW player. I love both games. In EVE, people hate WoW... In Rift, people hate WoW... In SWTOR, people hate WoW... yet I love all 4 games. I don't get it. why the hate?

Indeed. Wow's native UI doesn't support it, but target frame mods do. I love it, but I wasn't going to push THAT far (yet).

I suppose adding target-of-target would make it too much like WoW. Target-of-target must therefore be bad, since WoW uses it.

This CHANGES your target to the target it has, it does not let you simply view it. I don't want to have to cycle my target every time I want to know what it's targeting. I want it to always be there, as a smaller frame.

It lets you input code through the game's API (advanced programming interface) and bind it to a hotkey that you can press. For example, binding this to the 1 key in WoW, /cast [@mouseover] Heal whenever you press your 1 key, it will try to Heal whoever your mouse is touching. It can also be used to link abilities that do not trigger the GCD (pop all your CDs at once). /cast cooldown1 /cast cooldown2 /use trinket Or, a simple one, a chat macro. Bind this to an icon: /1 LFM BT heroic need 1 healer hit it every 30 seconds, you don't have to type that sentence every time.

If we have no other bug fixes or implementations of changes, please, just let us have target-of-target. It is very useful as a tank or healer, both of which I happen to be. Also PvP. To know if someone is targeting you is valuable in both worlds.

This post doesn't even make sense.

Because times change. This isn't EQ1 or EQ2. If you do 30% less dps than your peers, and you wipe to enrage, you NEED to know, in order to improve or be replaced.

Won? Maybe not. Pulled your weight? Absolutely. If, in your head, you're like "F'k yeah, I'm nailing my rotation! Surely I'm doing a lot more dps than everyone! Yay, boss died! I deserve the loot!" but in reality, you were botching your rotation, and did 30% less dps than the other guy that has the same class/spec as you, you need to know. Why? Because when cutting edge progression comes up, and you're wiping to enrage, you need to either improve, or let someone else in who can do better. Also, "I'm doing a lot more damage, I deserve that, its a better upgrade for me." "How do you know?" "I just know." "Do you have proof?" No. You wouldn't have proof unless you had combat logs. A lot (most) top end guilds go by loot council.

Pretty much this.

Probably what he/she meant. you're just nitpicking.

Macros are NOT a crutch. They only become a crutch if they make decisions for you, or automate gameplay. Mouseover macros do NOT make a decision for you. YOU still decide who you want to heal. They do not automate gameplay. YOU still have to initiate the macro at the person you want to heal, it just eliminates the time it takes to click someone. If you think, "oh, its just a split second, it's no big deal," say you cast 50 heals in a boss fight. Not unreasonable. Now say you changed targets 40 times, and each re-target cost you 1/4 of a second. Now, in the middle of a boss fight, sit there and stare at the boss for 10 seconds straight. Yeah, it's a long time, and with mouseovers, you just got that much more efficient.

It eliminates the downtime that clicking creates. Makes it more efficient. Hard? no. I can heal just fine without mouseovers. But why would you choose to make something more tedious than it has to be? In your logical world, keybinds are a crutch. Any mouse with over 2 buttons is a crutch. You have to click each spell you want to cast. If you already do that, congratulations, other people with keybinds will still do things easily and more efficiently, therefore it is bad and must be removed.

There's a difference between going from "complex" to "simple," and going from "tedious" to easier." You still have to know what heal to cast at what player, and at what time, and how to efficiently use your mana (forcelol). The only thing mouseovers are is a tool to make your job easier. Would you cast off a tool just because you don't want to make your job easier? Would you throw away your cell phone because that makes keeping in touch with people easier?

This is gold. I fully support this post, and agree with everything. To add to the anti camp: "who cares how good you do, as long as bosses die?" What happens when bosses don't die? When you wipe 10 times to enrage, you can only tell people "dps harder" so many times before you get frustrated. It would be nice to see who's not pulling their weight. "That only adds elitism." Well, some people like being competitive. Top guilds pride themselves on their performance. In my current wow guild, we slowly work our way through heroic bosses. Some of our raiders do far less dps than they should (we're talking 18k when the top three dps fight for number one at 30k), but we do not kick them, because they're friends, and we've been raiding a long time together. Does this make you feel better? If you want a guild that doesn't care about dps, performance, and overall skill, join one. (I for one wish I was in a more hardcore guild, but I stay because of a good RL friend, etc).

To quote myself in the other macro thread:

Auto target: false. You can make /target [player] macros, but this targets a predefined player, not a player with the lowest HP. Healbot gets its name because it USED to target the players with the lowest HP in order to heal them, in 40 man raids, which is why it was named Healbot, it was literally a bot that auto-targeted the lowest HP. They broke that YEARS ago, before BC was released. One-button rotations: I've only played two games. In Rift, yes, you can macro ALL of your abilities (as long as they had a cooldown, if you linked two things without a cooldown, it would fail), and it would fire off whatever was off cooldown. While I loved it, I do agree that is a bit excessive. But, in World of Warcraft, it is impossible to do this, even with abilities on cooldowns. Yet macros still thrive. Why? Macros that make life easier: mouseover targeting. This is great if you're pressuring a healer, and you see something you want to CC, but don't want to take a second to target the other person, cast the ability, then another second to target the healer again, who's healed themself to full. Just put your mouse over the other player, while still doing your rotation, click your mouseover hotkey, instant CC, and continue pressuring. /cast for abilities off the cooldown. Things like defensive cooldown 1 and 2, plus a potion. Or whatever. This is just for minimizing dps downtime by clicking each ability (even if you have keybinds). These are just the two I can easily defend off of the top of my head, there's mod macros that do one thing, but if you press shift, do another thing (if you can only reach 5 keys, but you have 10 things you want to bind, just make shift-modifiers or whatever). Chat macros that auto-say things (good for those of you who are also against LFD, you can do /2 "LFM hardmodes be good because I'm a *****" all you want in the form of a macro. I've said this in about 3 threads now I think, but it's something obvious that people are missing the point of. It's not "playing the game for you," it's not "dumbing down the game," it's just a tool. A quality-of-life issue. Like air conditioning. Or cell phones.

Indeed. The Razer Naga is the most ingenious piece of hardware I've ever bought. I have my main quickslot bound to keys 1-0, bottom quickslot to shift+1-0, and side quickslot is alt+1-0. It makes life SO much easier. Should BioWare detect razer naga mice, and ban the players using them?

No. It's not. Healing with mouseover is a LOT easier than clicking each frame and then casting heals. Can I do it? Yes. Would it be easier with mouseovers? Of course. I fail to see how this is a crutch. If this is indeed a crutch, then you don't need TV remotes, you don't need a cell phone, you don't need a car, because you can just walk everywhere. Can you walk where you want to go? yes. Does a car make it easier? Of course.

I love people who say "what killed wow" or "the game is dead," because it's hilarious. The game is far from dead. WoW is not dumbed down. You want hard content? Go kill heroic modes. As previously mentioned, while being the 1% who could actually kill things in Naxxramas in Vanilla was a giant ego boost to the 1% that could actually do it, the other 99% feels left out. Thus, normal modes and hard modes. If you try to cite LFR as an example of "dumbed down" content, then... yes. It's easier. It's supposed to be, so that the average player can defeat deathwing without spending hours wiping. If you want elitism and status, kill him on heroic mode. Even being a little off-topic, it still relates to this thread. LFD didn't "ruin" the community. Sure, you're going to meet ***** there, but you'll meet ***** everywhere, it's not exclusive to LFD. I think the idea that LFD is "full of trolls and ninjas" is a gross exaggeration. I myself have nice, decent groups about 95% of the time. Sure, I meet the annoying elitists, the rude trolls, but I just tend to ignore them, and they're quite rare. As for "copying wow" argument: Remember when remotes didn't exist? You actually had to have someone by the TV, turning the dial? Yeah. Remotes ruined TV. I want to go back to the good old days, before they had remotes, those were the good times, eh? LFD is a tool that adds convenience to everyday life, just like a remote. It's a quality-of-life thing. Air conditioning, power windows on a car, email instead of regular mail. It takes something you want to do, and makes it easier. I fail to see how that is bad. "It ruins the community," you say. Well, I can't speak for everyone, but on the multiple servers I've been on in any MMO, unless you "troll" general/trade, and make yourself out to be a stupid person, no one really pays attention (and I've been playing long before LFD). Usually the only thing people complain about in the trade chat is if a whole guild ninjas, but then you just get replies like "lol" and "who cares." LFD is a tool, a quality-of-life addition. Don't knock it because you want every group you're in to be troll/ninja-free. You're going to get those even if you recruit, and the "community" probably won't even care if you rant about same-server ninjas.

you mean, "Don't just let them forget this?" but anyway. Call me dumb... but how do you rate a thread?

It is still happening to me. Usually, it's "mostly" okay, but in some situations, I get 500-1000ish ms ability delay, when the server bar says 30-50ms. Very annoying when trying to fight multiple mobs, you run to rocket punch one, you click it as you're running past, the GCD fires, so you run to the next one, it says "out of range" a second later and doesn't go off.

I feel as though we may be repeating ourselves here...

I'm one of those people. Say a 1h gun drops. Mako uses 1h guns. Naturally, everyone is going to greed, so I may not get it (2 hour loot trade window, like some other game, anyone?). If the operative greeds or passes, I need on it so it doesn't get wasted.