Macros - ETA?

[Dekutanoth]

To quote myself in the other macro thread:

 

Auto target: false. You can make /target [player] macros, but this targets a predefined player, not a player with the lowest HP. Healbot gets its name because it USED to target the players with the lowest HP in order to heal them, in 40 man raids, which is why it was named Healbot, it was literally a bot that auto-targeted the lowest HP. They broke that YEARS ago, before BC was released.

 

One-button rotations: I've only played two games. In Rift, yes, you can macro ALL of your abilities (as long as they had a cooldown, if you linked two things without a cooldown, it would fail), and it would fire off whatever was off cooldown. While I loved it, I do agree that is a bit excessive. But, in World of Warcraft, it is impossible to do this, even with abilities on cooldowns. Yet macros still thrive. Why?

 

Macros that make life easier: mouseover targeting. This is great if you're pressuring a healer, and you see something you want to CC, but don't want to take a second to target the other person, cast the ability, then another second to target the healer again, who's healed themself to full. Just put your mouse over the other player, while still doing your rotation, click your mouseover hotkey, instant CC, and continue pressuring.

/cast for abilities off the cooldown. Things like defensive cooldown 1 and 2, plus a potion. Or whatever. This is just for minimizing dps downtime by clicking each ability (even if you have keybinds).

These are just the two I can easily defend off of the top of my head, there's mod macros that do one thing, but if you press shift, do another thing (if you can only reach 5 keys, but you have 10 things you want to bind, just make shift-modifiers or whatever). Chat macros that auto-say things (good for those of you who are also against LFD, you can do /2 "LFM hardmodes be good because I'm a *****" all you want in the form of a macro.

 

I've said this in about 3 threads now I think, but it's something obvious that people are missing the point of. It's not "playing the game for you," it's not "dumbing down the game," it's just a tool. A quality-of-life issue. Like air conditioning. Or cell phones.

[Bald_Haliaeetus]

Ok, for someone that's never played WoW... What is mouse over healing and how do macros help?

 

I suppose I should have detailed that in the OP, for those who aren't familiar with WoW's macro setup.

 

Sorry bout that!

 

 

How it worked commands like /cast modifiers like [shift] and conditions like [mouseovever] ..so, the following:

 

/cast [mod:shift] SpellName; OtherSpellName

 

...so, when your holding shift and press the macro, you'd do the first spell; and if you weren't you'd cast the other.

 

you could also use the macro to specify where the spell is cast, like [@player] would cast the spall at yourself, [@focus] would cast it at your focus target, and [@mouseover] could cast at whatever your cursor was hovering over (either their model in the game world or their portrait).

 

so you could make a macro that looks like

 

/cast [@mouseover] HealingSpell

 

so you could just mouseover the unit frames of a group or raid and hit the macro to keep everyone healed. The utility that added is that you could have something else targeted like a boss to see what the boss is targeting, or the tank to make it easier to focus on his health against the rest of the group; and it makes ealing much more fluid because as soon as the cursor is moused over a target, that IS your mouseover target - you don't have to fumble around with clicking.

 

I usually combine that with other conditions like [help] (friendly unit) or [hurt] (unit) to come up with something like:

 

/cast [@mouseover, help] HealingSpell; [nohelp] OffensiveSpell

 

notice the offensive spell doesn't have a mouseover condition, so that particular macro would serve many functions:

 

- All the mouseover functionality mentioned above^

- allows me heal the group and attack a hostile unit all without changing targets

- reduces the clutter on your action bars by merging a hostile ability and healing ability into one button... which adds up when you've got like 5 healing abilities and 5 offensive abilities now only taking up half of an action bar instead of a whole one.

 

 

...that's just a tiny fraction of the functionality; really needed in this game. But some people are still opposed to it because they're ignorant and think you can use a macro whip up something like:

 

/run behind my target and use backstab, then stun him for 5 seconds while I cut his liver out with my lightsaber, and be sure to break any CC if its used on me, and keep doing that till I'm level 50 while I take a nap

 

...yea... macros dont do that.

[Kasperion]

Sorry, but Macro's are a crutch for people who lack the ability to play the game properly.

Sorry, but insults are a crutch for people who lack the ability to argue intelligently. Ever hit two buttons at the same time (one to activate a buff, one to cast a spell)? If no, then YOU have no business accusing anyone else of not knowing how to play properly. If yes, then point out what the resulting difference is between hitting two buttons with two abilities bound and hitting one button with two abilities macro'ed (Note: The abilities must not share the GCD, or such a sequence will not work). And before you try, don't say "You hit an extra button."

 

Hint: There is NO difference. The commands received server side would appear EXACTLY the same in both scenarios.

 

But I doubt BioWare is going to give anyone functionality near what made that stuff possible.

Exactly. And as you pointed out, if BW were to accidentally overlook something and such functionality made it out, they could easily break it.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Kasperion

[Furad]

 

I suppose I should have detailed that in the OP, for those who aren't familiar with WoW's macro setup.

 

Sorry bout that!

 

 

How it worked commands like /cast modifiers like [shift] and conditions like [mouseovever] ..so, the following:

 

/cast [mod:shift] SpellName; OtherSpellName

 

...so, when your holding shift and press the macro, you'd do the first spell; and if you weren't you'd cast the other.

 

you could also use the macro to specify where the spell is cast, like [@player] would cast the spall at yourself, [@focus] would cast it at your focus target, and [@mouseover] could cast at whatever your cursor was hovering over (either their model in the game world or their portrait).

 

so you could make a macro that looks like

 

/cast [@mouseover] HealingSpell

 

so you could just mouseover the unit frames of a group or raid and hit the macro to keep everyone healed. The utility that added is that you could have something else targeted like a boss to see what the boss is targeting, or the tank to make it easier to focus on his health against the rest of the group; and it makes ealing much more fluid because as soon as the cursor is moused over a target, that IS your mouseover target - you don't have to fumble around with clicking.

 

I usually combine that with other conditions like [help] (friendly unit) or [hurt] (unit) to come up with something like:

 

/cast [@mouseover, help] HealingSpell; [nohelp] OffensiveSpell

 

notice the offensive spell doesn't have a mouseover condition, so that particular macro would serve many functions:

 

- All the mouseover functionality mentioned above^

- allows me heal the group and attack a hostile unit all without changing targets

- reduces the clutter on your action bars by merging a hostile ability and healing ability into one button... which adds up when you've got like 5 healing abilities and 5 offensive abilities now only taking up half of an action bar instead of a whole one.

 

 

...that's just a tiny fraction of the functionality; really needed in this game. But some people are still opposed to it because they're ignorant and think you can use a macro whip up something like:

 

/run behind my target and use backstab, then stun him for 5 seconds while I cut his liver out with my lightsaber, and be sure to break any CC if its used on me, and keep doing that till I'm level 50 while I take a nap

 

...yea... macros dont do that.

 

If I'm understanding right, that seems like it makes it way to easy. When I play a healer (cleric) I expect it to be a workout. I have to watch 7 peoples health, I have to cure them, sometimes I have to start healing them before they're taking damage. While this is going on I have to keep an eye on the MA (focus) to see if the need help with CC (stuns/debuffs).

 

It's a really fast paced busy type of play and that's why I enjoyed it. The last thing I would want to do is simplify it.

[Skaara]

If I'm understanding right, that seems like it makes it way to easy. When I play a healer (cleric) I expect it to be a workout. I have to watch 7 peoples health, I have to cure them, sometimes I have to start healing them before they're taking damage. While this is going on I have to keep an eye on the MA (focus) to see if the need help with CC (stuns/debuffs).

 

It's a really fast paced busy type of play and that's why I enjoyed it. The last thing I would want to do is simplify it.

 

Good thing no one will make you use them then, right?

Edited January 14, 2012 by Skaara

[Bald_Haliaeetus]

If I'm understanding right, that seems like it makes it way to easy. When I play a healer (cleric) I expect it to be a workout. I have to watch 7 peoples health, I have to cure them, sometimes I have to start healing them before they're taking damage. While this is going on I have to keep an eye on the MA (focus) to see if the need help with CC (stuns/debuffs).

 

It's a really fast paced busy type of play and that's why I enjoyed it. The last thing I would want to do is simplify it.

 

You still have to do all that... macros don't alter you role at all, they just change how things are executed. If it doesn't sound like something you'd enjoy using - no problem at all! There are plenty of players who use the default UI and no macros because it suits them; if you're one of those players, by all means, dont use the macros! (though I'd encourage you to atleast try them).

 

The point is that you can customize it to work however you want; my personal preference is mouseover, but again, that's a metaphorical drop in the ocean.

[Furad]

Good thing no one will make you use them then, right?

 

So I am understanding it right, this thread is about simplifying gameplay?

[Furad]

 

You still have to do all that... macros don't alter you role at all, they just change how things are executed. If it doesn't sound like something you'd enjoy using - no problem at all! There are plenty of players who use the default UI and no macros because it suits them; if you're one of those players, by all means, dont use the macros! (though I'd encourage you to atleast try them).

 

The point is that you can customize it to work however you want; my personal preference is mouseover, but again, that's a metaphorical drop in the ocean.

 

I guess I'm not really understanding it.

[Skaara]

So I am understanding it right, this thread is about simplifying gameplay?

 

No but you're a good troll I'll give you that.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Skaara

[Catch_TwentyTwo]

Sorry, but insults are a crutch for people who lack the ability to argue intelligently. Ever hit two buttons at the same time (one to activate a buff, one to cast a spell)? If no, then YOU have no business accusing anyone else of not knowing how to play properly. If yes, then point out what the resulting difference is between hitting two buttons with two abilities bound and hitting one button with two abilities macro'ed (Note: The abilities must not share the GCD, or such a sequence will not work). And before you try, don't say "You hit an extra button."

 

Hint: There is NO difference. The commands received server side would appear EXACTLY the same in both scenarios.

 

 

Exactly. And as you pointed out, if BW were to accidentally overlook something and such functionality made it out, they could easily break it.

Oh I am more than willing to argue intelligently, however when are arguement is biased simply to hide a fact I see little to know point, but I will indulge you this one.

 

This was YOUR statement:

Hint: There is NO difference. The commands received server side would appear EXACTLY the same in both scenarios.

Whilst it is corrct that the server side input would be the similar, this is not the full story. By macroing your inputs you also achieve the following:

• Ability to sync the commands and takeout the human error element
  
• Reduce workload on the player for those commands by 50%
  

By using the macro, you reduce the complexity required to play, therefore making it easier for a less skillful player to play (this is the "Crutch").

 

If you want to be good at a game then GET GOOD. If you need Macro's to play, then you're not really playing are you...

[Skaara]

Oh I am more than willing to argue intelligently, however when are arguement is biased simply to hide a fact I see little to know point, but I will indulge you this one.

 

This was YOUR statement:

Whilst it is corrct that the server side input would be the similar, this is not the full story. By macroing your inputs you also achieve the following:

• Ability to sync the commands and takeout the human error element
  
• Reduce workload on the player for those commands by 50%
  

By using the macro, you reduce the complexity required to play, therefore making it easier for a less skillful player to play (this is the "Crutch").

 

If you want to be good at a game then GET GOOD. If you need Macro's to play, then you're not really playing are you...

 

Or we can just use macros anyway ... like I said, you're not stopping anything.

[Kindara]

 

Odd.

 

The way I see it, macros offer fluidity, conciseness, and efficiency... difficulty isn't a factor; I can function as a healer right now, I just don't enjoy it; it's cumbersome.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by having two buttons that do everything; macros would not cause that, but if you disagree feel free to elaborate.

 

Macros are a crutch for people who can't be bothered to learn to play their character. Its one thing to have some more informational UI features another to have a macro that plays your character pratically for you.

 

I mean is it that hard to click the person and hit the heal button?

[Furad]

No but you're a good troll I'll give you that.

 

Umm ok...

[Skaara]

Macros are a crutch for people who can't be bothered to learn to play their character. Its one thing to have some more informational UI features another to have a macro that plays your character pratically for you.

 

I mean is it that hard to click the person and hit the heal button?

 

Is it that hard to let people play however they want and you play how you want. Tada .. problem solved.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Skaara

[Furad]

Macros are a crutch for people who can't be bothered to learn to play their character. Its one thing to have some more informational UI features another to have a macro that plays your character pratically for you.

 

I mean is it that hard to click the person and hit the heal button?

 

That's kind of how I see it.

[Skaara]

Might as well get rid of keybinding too since only clickers play the right way and us keybinders are just dirty cheaters. The logic of some of you folk is staggering. Edited January 14, 2012 by Skaara

[Dekutanoth]

There's a difference between going from "complex" to "simple," and going from "tedious" to easier." You still have to know what heal to cast at what player, and at what time, and how to efficiently use your mana (forcelol). The only thing mouseovers are is a tool to make your job easier. Would you cast off a tool just because you don't want to make your job easier? Would you throw away your cell phone because that makes keeping in touch with people easier?

[HomeSlixe]

if you really want macros that bad you could get a razer naga. I hear there is a swtor version too

[Dekutanoth]

Macros are a crutch for people who can't be bothered to learn to play their character. Its one thing to have some more informational UI features another to have a macro that plays your character pratically for you.

 

I mean is it that hard to click the person and hit the heal button?

 

It eliminates the downtime that clicking creates. Makes it more efficient. Hard? no. I can heal just fine without mouseovers. But why would you choose to make something more tedious than it has to be?

 

In your logical world, keybinds are a crutch. Any mouse with over 2 buttons is a crutch. You have to click each spell you want to cast. If you already do that, congratulations, other people with keybinds will still do things easily and more efficiently, therefore it is bad and must be removed.

[Skaara]

There's a difference between going from "complex" to "simple," and going from "tedious" to easier." You still have to know what heal to cast at what player, and at what time, and how to efficiently use your mana (forcelol). The only thing mouseovers are is a tool to make your job easier. Would you cast off a tool just because you don't want to make your job easier? Would you throw away your cell phone because that makes keeping in touch with people easier?

 

No power tools either, you better grab a hand drill since electricity is cheating. No cars either, horse and carriage or get out of town with your easiness.

[Skaara]

if you really want macros that bad you could get a razer naga. I hear there is a swtor version too

 

Already have one ... hence my statement of you're not stopping anything. Your guildies are probably using macros and you just don't know it.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Skaara

[Szev]

OP: Just as a easy tidbit for you

 

If you are curious about these "one button kill game" macros they are referring too, and you have a familiarity of WoW, just you tube "Death Knight One Button" and you will see immediately what the issue is.

 

Once again, as I believe you stated, macros and add-ons are not the issue the issue is the way players try to use those. Customization is a good thing, but there's a line where it crosses customization to actually making decisions for you, which I think is universally understood as a bad thing.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Szev

[flyersfan]

I'm not sure what this mouseover business is, but I love healing. I have a blast playing with my Operative and healing on Flashpoints and the like. From what I understand about what a macro is, I'm not a fan at all. I'd rather just do it myself and actually click on the people I want to heal and press the button for the heal I want to use. It has worked just fine so far other than the natural lag from my computer.

 

Edit: I scrolled up and saw this:

 

 

Macros are a crutch for people who can't be bothered to learn to play their character. Its one thing to have some more informational UI features another to have a macro that plays your character pratically for you.

 

I mean is it that hard to click the person and hit the heal button?

 

That about sums up how I feel about the matter.

Edited January 14, 2012 by flyersfan

[Furad]

There's a difference between going from "complex" to "simple," and going from "tedious" to easier." You still have to know what heal to cast at what player, and at what time, and how to efficiently use your mana (forcelol). The only thing mouseovers are is a tool to make your job easier. Would you cast off a tool just because you don't want to make your job easier? Would you throw away your cell phone because that makes keeping in touch with people easier?

 

I honestly don't care one way or the other. I know I'm not from this generation of MMO's.

 

I think, some of us, just prefer things that are challenging like before WoW. It's a competitive sport to me.

 

I remember a few years back when people in DAoC had honor and integrity on the battle field I **** you not. There was one guy on my server, a mid warrior named Akdave. 90% of enemy players would leave this guy alone in pvp because they knew he was a respectful soloer.

 

Now it seems like people just look for any advantage they can find and it takes away from it. IMO.

[Bald_Haliaeetus]

I mean is it that hard to click the person and hit the heal button?

 

You are still focused on the difficulty level. That is a mistake, and is likely what causing such a drastic gap in the 'debate'.

 

Macros do not alter difficulty. They give the user more control over how the game reacts to keystrokes, and keep the UI clean.

 

They do not make healing (or any role) easier; they make it more fun (for those prefer using them).

 

If you don't want to use them, no one has a problem with that, but stop pretending they're some kind of autopilot that plays the game for people.