Macros - ETA?

[Chosenxeno]

Should I post a screenshot of my healer with 48 keybinds?

 

I use macros extensively - saying that because I use macros I would only have 2 buttons is silly beyond all belief.

 

Why do people act like healers aren't in the game and that we don't have the hardest job:(

[MaverickXIV]

Nobody wants rift style macros. What most of us want is the functionality of WoW style macros. You can't combine two abilities that are on the GCD on one keypress. The closest thing is a /castsequence type macro, but they aren't very good because they don't allow for things such as target switching or misses/dodges/parries for example.

I would actually be happy with Rift style macros. I'm used to RPGs where skill was based around the math you did to optimize your character build, so I'm not very impressed when people say that skill comes from having to keep track of multiple buttons.

[Halofax]

I would actually be happy with Rift style macros. I'm used to RPGs where skill was based around the math you did to optimize your character build, so I'm not very impressed when people say that skill comes from having to keep track of multiple buttons.

 

I dont want macros either. Im here to play SWTOR, not to let my computer play it for me.

[Halofax]

Nobody wants rift style macros. What most of us want is the functionality of WoW style macros. You can't combine two abilities that are on the GCD on one keypress. The closest thing is a /castsequence type macro, but they aren't very good because they don't allow for things such as target switching or misses/dodges/parries for example.

 

WoW has WoW style macros.

[Fentz]

I dont want macros either. Im here to play SWTOR, not to let my computer play it for me.

 

 

ignorant.

 

macros do not play the game for you, just look at WoW

 

don't look at Rift, no one wants the Rift macro system

 

WoW has WoW style macros.

 

which work very very well

Edited January 15, 2012 by Fentz

[Halofax]

ignorant.

 

macros do not play the game for you, just look at WoW

 

don't look at Rift, no one wants the Rift macro system

 

 

 

which work very very well

 

If you give me the option to macro equipping the gear i win in raids on WoW it could play itself while i post on facebook and show everyone my xbox live achievements.

 

In all seriousness,

 

Tank A is > than Tank B because he is capable of using his character better.

 

With macros,

 

Tank A is > Tank B because Tank A is tech Savvy and wrote better macros.

 

I realize this will seem extreme, but Macros in MMORPG games are honestly just as bad as Aimbots/Wallhacks in FPS. When you take away the BARE MINIMUM user input, then the game isnt skill based anymore.

 

Someone mentioned a macro targetting his groupmates so he can heal them. At that point Healing because pushing the heal button and your macro button, equal user input to a Facebook game, or one of the older zelda games for Nintendo.

 

Zelda swings his sword and finds the best gear around the world of Hyrule, then defeats Ganon, unplugs Nintendo, and plugs in the next game.

[Skaara]

If you give me the option to macro equipping the gear i win in raids on WoW it could play itself while i post on facebook and show everyone my xbox live achievements.

 

In all seriousness,

 

Tank A is > than Tank B because he is capable of using his character better.

 

With macros,

 

Tank A is > Tank B because Tank A is tech Savvy and wrote better macros.

 

I realize this will seem extreme, but Macros in MMORPG games are honestly just as bad as Aimbots/Wallhacks in FPS. When you take away the BARE MINIMUM user input, then the game isnt skill based anymore.

 

Someone mentioned a macro targetting his groupmates so he can heal them. At that point Healing because pushing the heal button and your macro button, equal user input to a Facebook game, or one of the older zelda games for Nintendo.

 

Zelda swings his sword and finds the best gear around the world of Hyrule, then defeats Ganon, unplugs Nintendo, and plugs in the next game.

 

Haha, macros are as bad as auto aiming and wall hacks and the equivalent user input on a facebook game. At least now I know that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Your opinion really now has zero credibility at least to me. Please just go back to whatever Everquest server you originated from.

[Halofax]

Haha, macros are as bad as auto aiming and wall hacks and the equivalent user input on a facebook game. At least now I know that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Your opinion really now has zero credibility at least to me. Please just go back to whatever Everquest server you originated from.

 

All mmos are when you take away the shiny animations is pushing buttons on your keyboard, and dragging new gear onto your paperdoll.

 

Are you that upset that you have to do both of those instead of just one?

[Skaara]

All mmos are when you take away the shiny animations is pushing buttons on your keyboard, and dragging new gear onto your paperdoll.

 

Are you that upset that you have to do both of those instead of just one?

 

I don't have to do anything. Macros already exist in game with my naga. You might want to catch up with that fact. You can stay in make believe land where no one is using them though.

 

So in response, You mad bro

[frozenwings]

I mostly want targeting macros. This game's targeting system is very clunky, and clicking on someone's actual avatar is almost impossible when there are a few enemies and a few melee players crammed together in one spot. I do find that aiming for the feet of the person I want to heal is easier than trying to click on the torso, however, it's still really stupid.

 

This leaves you the "option" of clicking a person's frame in the window, which is can be pretty annoying and inefficient because of how the UI is set up. A lot of healers are able to contribute DPS in a lot of situations in this game, and switching between DPS and Healing is a problem currently. It's not about skill, it's about efficiency. The total one second it takes to go from DPSing to having to find the person's frame to click on, then using the heal, then trying to click/tab back to the target to continue DPSing can be crucial and a waste of time. Focusing on just healing and not damaging is something I do not miss from WoW, so anything that will make it more efficient to do both would benefit this game greatly.

 

Allowing macros won't allow a "1 button" win mode if Bioware does it properly. For example, they can allow only one instance of the "cast" command, or whatever they choose. People are afraid of being able to use entire attack chains with one button press, but they can make it so you can only use one ability per macro/keybind.

 

People are saying that making macros is so that people can be skill-less and lazy, however I say the opposite is true:

 

People who don't want macros added to the game don't want to put in the time and effort into setting up macros because they are afraid of being less efficient than those who know how and are willing to do so.

 

Not wanting macros is pretty much like saying that you are a horribly inefficient keyboard turning clicker, and everyone else should be as well. You aren't willing to learn the more efficient method of playing, so you want everyone else to be in the same position as you.

 

There are even those who are able to make macros with their hardware, and shame on those guys for not wanting in game macros just so they can have an advantage over the people who don't. This is coming from a guy with said hardware.

Edited January 15, 2012 by frozenwings

[Mandrax]

I've always enjoyed healing in other MMOs, but I regret to say that it's rather cumbersome in SWTOR. The missing ingredient is mouseover functionality.

 

'course, mouseover healing may not be something that the SWTOR community as a whole cares about, but I'd be willing to bet that atleast a large portion of the healers out there would agree with me; and there's a plethora of other functions that macros serve... probably dont need to discuss the specifics, but there's no doubt that their inclusion into the game is going to be a very positive thing for most players.

 

I know it's been stated that macros would make it into the game at some point post-launch... any chance we could get some specifics of when that might be?

 

I'm nearing end-game with my 'main' and I'd like to heal with that character, but as it stands healing just isn't fun. I suppose I could put that char on hold for a while and just work on alts until mouseover functionality is provided, but that would be undesirable.

 

 

 

(and I hope this didn't come off as complaining - the game as a whole is outstanding, it just needs a bit of polish.)

 

There is no ETA on macros, but it's likely that we will get the UI upgrade before macros. I'm hoping the UI upgrade includes mouse-over macros.

[Halofax]

Macros = Aimbot in this sense.

 

Healer uses macro to target for him and clicks his heals.

 

Aimbotter uses macro to target for him and clicks to fire gun.

 

Why cant this rediculously easy game be easy enough as it is?

[frozenwings]

Macros = Aimbot in this sense.

 

Healer uses macro to target for him and clicks his heals.

 

Aimbotter uses macro to target for him and clicks to fire gun.

 

Why cant this rediculously easy game be easy enough as it is?

 

Because clicking with the mouse and pressing a keybind is the same thing, only the keybind is way faster. Who wouldn't want the faster option?

 

Edited for clarity.

Edited January 15, 2012 by frozenwings

[Keldain]

The overall impression I get from this thread is that people who are against adding macros are getting confused about what it means. They seem to be imagining macros would be like gaming peripheral macros which are a form of automation that borders on botting - allowing you to chain commands together almost infinitely, leaving gaps between executions - and these types of macro should be bannable.

 

However, people that want macros generally don't want this kind of macro. They want the kind of macro that lets you assign a single quickbar button to be one command if you press it with no modifier or a different command if you press it with Alt - so that they can put all their abities in easier reach and avoid getting RSI constantly tryig to stretch over fomr the WASD keys to the "7" key. Or a macro which will announce in party chat if you use a certain ability (e.g. a tank uses their major dmg reduction CD and it says "Damage reduced for the next 30secs" to let the healer know not to pop a second CD on him and potentially waste it). Or, for healers especially, a macro which allows an ability to be cast on your focus target if you press it with alt or a target whose character or health bar you're hovering over if you press it on its own.

 

Macros in, for example, that game that we're not allowed to name don't allow you to create "I win buttons" and since the company that makes that game has complete and utter control over what macros are allowed to do, the few times that people have been able to manipulate macros to do anything approaching that is stomped on and broken - either by altering the macro language or by altering the abilities so they can't be macro'd that way (most commonly by putting an ability on the GCD so it can't be cast at the same time as another ability).

 

Macros of the type most reasonable people want don't make the game significantly easier, or allow you to do things that you couldn't do without them - they just make it more comfortable, convenient and customisable. They do not allow "I WIN" buttons, and the combat system (at least for every AC I've played so far) is such in SWTOR that such buttons could't work, since it seems every class has procs and conditions that require human observation to react to. The types of macros that are in the game already (from drivers of peripheral hardware) are cheating - and BW should have systems to detect their use and ban those who are using them.

[Keldain]

If you give me the option to macro equipping the gear i win in raids on WoW it could play itself while i post on facebook and show everyone my xbox live achievements.

 

This is simply untrue and deliberately misleading. I wonder if you've ever played WoW.

 

The WoW macro system is set up explicity around the idea that for every global cooldown using action there has to be a keypress - and the vast, vast majority of spells and abilities are on the global cooldown. You simply cannot have any sort of automation - you must press a key each time you perform an action. You also cannot macro any type of movement or use macros to automatically cast one ability or the other based on external conditions in combat (i.e. your position in relation to a mob, any procs that you have etc.).

 

In your example you would press your macro key - your character would cast a single ability and while you're on Facebook or Xbox your character would just be sitting there auto-attacking.

 

In SWTOR, with its lack of auto-attack, you wouldn't even be doing that.

[lokivoid]

Just my opinion but i dont see the need for macro's at all. Im doing just fine without em Mainly because i hate having 2 buttons that do everything

 

Second i hope they never introduce mouse over healing makes things too easy imo.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Your under the asumption that a macro will allow two buttions that do everything

 

Example, (cast [mouseover] spellname), has one function simply casting the spell at whatever your mouse is over without switching targets. No more no less

 

Its a vary limited conditional command.

 

What people dont seem to understand with macro's is what they are capable of is purely based on what commands are allowed. Macros are not all powerful they follow a set of rules. These rules are defined by the API commandset. A developer can limit what they can and cannot do by changing the API.

[frozenwings]

The overall impression I get from this thread is that people who are against adding macros are getting confused about what it means. They seem to be imagining macros would be like gaming peripheral macros which are a form of automation that borders on botting - allowing you to chain commands together almost infinitely, leaving gaps between executions - and these types of macro should be bannable.

 

However, people that want macros generally don't want this kind of macro. They want the kind of macro that lets you assign a single quickbar button to be one command if you press it with no modifier or a different command if you press it with Alt - so that they can put all their abities in easier reach and avoid getting RSI constantly tryig to stretch over fomr the WASD keys to the "7" key. Or a macro which will announce in party chat if you use a certain ability (e.g. a tank uses their major dmg reduction CD and it says "Damage reduced for the next 30secs" to let the healer know not to pop a second CD on him and potentially waste it). Or, for healers especially, a macro which allows an ability to be cast on your focus target if you press it with alt or a target whose character or health bar you're hovering over if you press it on its own.

 

Macros in, for example, that game that we're not allowed to name don't allow you to create "I win buttons" and since the company that makes that game has complete and utter control over what macros are allowed to do, the few times that people have been able to manipulate macros to do anything approaching that is stomped on and broken - either by altering the macro language or by altering the abilities so they can't be macro'd that way (most commonly by putting an ability on the GCD so it can't be cast at the same time as another ability).

 

Macros of the type most reasonable people want don't make the game significantly easier, or allow you to do things that you couldn't do without them - they just make it more comfortable, convenient and customisable. They do not allow "I WIN" buttons, and the combat system (at least for every AC I've played so far) is such in SWTOR that such buttons could't work, since it seems every class has procs and conditions that require human observation to react to. The types of macros that are in the game already (from drivers of peripheral hardware) are cheating - and BW should have systems to detect their use and ban those who are using them.

 

Brilliant post, thanks for taking the time to write it. I hope this will cure some of the ignorance in this thread.

[Baaddare]

On healing: Ui needs fixing as well, the raid frames are tiny and health doesnt seem to reflect reality. Debuffs are impossible to see. Its a good thing the game is so easy otherwise there would be a lot of groups breaking up due to "lack of heals".

 

On macros: dont like em, then dont use em (same goes for addons).

 

heh do what i did in your UI change it ( there is a toggle) so you use ops frame to replace group frames. Then you can adjust the size of the bars and such in the ops frame with sliders. Only issue with it is it wil not show companions under their toons so if running in a group with a companion you can switch back as it saves your settings on the slidders. Not perfect but helps till something better comes along

[Redat]

Seriously guys, IF you need macros to play this game then you really do suck. Yes its a challenge to heal/tank but aint that how its supposed to be? I sick and tired of the macro generation ruining MMo's because they want a "WIN" button. Anyone remember getting ganked in Restuss by a mob of rebs using assist macros while a healer was macro spamming heals? Very lame and to honest cheap. KEEP MACROS OUTA SWTOR!!!

[Baaddare]

I don't have to do anything. Macros already exist in game with my naga. You might want to catch up with that fact. You can stay in make believe land where no one is using them though.

 

So in response, You mad bro

 

doesn't the razor keyboard for swtor have special macro keys as one of it's features.

[Daynja]

Over all i dont really have any major problems with macros. They did in other games provide some very useful utilities. I am completely ignorant when it comes to the coding how it works and the limitations macros systems are set by but here are the things that can bother me about macros if they are allowed to be too useful.

 

In my few months of PVP in WoW i noticed that players were doing sequences of spells that would otherwise be impossible to do by hand especially with the warrior class and mage class. Warriors were (before major macros changes) doing amazing stance/stun dances that would have been almost impossible to do with key presses unless they were the closest buttons to their controlling hands leaving many other major spells to far to reach to be as swift as they were. Another time was with frost mages and i too eventually used the ability was to have frost-bolt tacked onto the frost elemental pet freeze spell which gave a tricky finger press combo the awesome power of one press of a button giving an already difficult to kill frost mage a very good edge. Ice block on/off with a button was another example giving human like responsiveness to many different spells that are all over a players cast bar in pvp is what i hated the most, but io always knew that many other macros were being used for the greater good.There are also illicit uses in the case of lvl 1 gold seller spammers.

 

But how much is allowed? If limiting a macro system were to be easy to implement would it then automatically gimp the use of great mods for healing say?

 

I mentioned earlier that i am ignorant to the complexity's of macro systems and how they are made i did and will not hide the fact that i eventually started using macros but only a simple copy paste of many available via community forums. I get why they are loved as it made certain play styles much much better and much less clunky but i do hope that something is offered at least into the game that doesn't get abused.

 

The best way Bw can implement this is to create a topic/sticky and reach out to the macro crowd and get talking before the system is introduced and get feedback going. Perhaps a whole forum section going.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Daynja

[ApocDream]

The term macro simply associates with automation. IE the software doing work for you. It might be convenient but in the old school days we called that cheating.

 

I have no issues if they add such a function. Just offering my perspective as an old school gamer.

 

Back in the day we played doom with just a keyboard. When shooters came out that used the mouse to aim we called that cheating. I have no issue with the mouse being used in modern shooters, just offering my perspective as an old school gamer.

[iShadowKing]

NO THANK YOU! I hope we never get to see macros ans specially add-ons.

 

Sure it can make things easier but then again its a fair system without it and people have to learn and live with what they get. Its nice to have a unified system all over and know everyone have the same capability and possibility instead of the best written scrip or addon you can find.

[Skaara]

doesn't the razor keyboard for swtor have special macro keys as one of it's features.

 

Yes it does as well as the swtor naga. Bioware obviously supports macros but only if you buy nice stuff or use autohotkey.

[Skaara]

Seriously guys, IF you need macros to play this game then you really do suck. Yes its a challenge to heal/tank but aint that how its supposed to be? I sick and tired of the macro generation ruining MMo's because they want a "WIN" button. Anyone remember getting ganked in Restuss by a mob of rebs using assist macros while a healer was macro spamming heals? Very lame and to honest cheap. KEEP MACROS OUTA SWTOR!!!

 

Seriously guys, if you don't use macros you're a bad and just want everyone else to be held back and brought down to your level of badness. Go back to Everquest.