Hero Engine: why?

[Thaerakiel]

Wow, totally dismissed all the evidence he just gave you and his counter argument and just said "fanboy".

 

Maturity medal awarded.

 

What evidence? Saying that it's not responsible for everything? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Sounded like an angry fanboy with all the typos and whatnot.

[Kindara]

So many professional programmers and game designers in this thread it is unbelievable, and on-top of that they all know exactly how the Hero Engine works and how BioWare has changed it since they acquired it, .

 

Didn't you hear all you have to do is log onto the internet, play a few video games, and experiment with some C++ and suddenly your a frikken genius.

 

The only thing wrong with this game's engine are all the people in this thread that have internet degrees in "Rear End Talkative"

Edited February 16, 2012 by Kindara

[sjmc]

If Bioware had been serious and had really wanted to make a high-performance high-quality game, they would have brought the entire project in-house rather than using various pre-built components.

 

For example, they would have created BioWare Mining Division to mine and refine ores for circuit boards and components for the SWTOR gaming hardware. They would have developed (in house) an OS for that hardware that had the gaming engine built into the kernel for maximum performance and security.

 

Rather than use the internet (which can be a cause of lag), they would run cables to each player's house (Bioware Mining Division comes in handy here as a source of cabling). They could probably power the devices through the cable (generated by Bioware Power Generation) to ensure the game stays up during general power outages (and could prevent the game from being played if their subscription runs out).

 

Bringing all development in house would ensure that they have control over the entire gaming experience and would mean that they could produce the highest quality product possible.

[MillionsKNives]

What evidence? Saying that it's not responsible for everything? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Sounded like an angry fanboy with all the typos and whatnot.

 

You say that it's not hard to figure out that the engine isn't the cause of all of the problems. Can it not also be said that it's just as possible that none of the problems are caused by the engine? They could be caused by issues at any level of the program.

 

Besides, having full access to the engine's code there is no reason that all of the problems can't eventually be fixed by BioWare. Whether they will (I like to think so) and in what time frame this happens we'll have to wait and see. But it is incorrect to say that 1) the issues can't be fixed and 2) they with any certainty have anything to do with the engine.

 

 

Also, please point out any unintentional typos made in that post other than the one "the" misspelled as "he". I can't find any myself.

Edited February 16, 2012 by MillionsKNives

[gurugeorge]

If Bioware had been serious and had really wanted to make a high-performance high-quality game, they would have brought the entire project in-house rather than using various pre-built components.

 

For example, they would have created BioWare Mining Division to mine and refine ores for circuit boards and components for the SWTOR gaming hardware. They would have developed (in house) an OS for that hardware that had the gaming engine built into the kernel for maximum performance and security.

 

Rather than use the internet (which can be a cause of lag), they would run cables to each player's house (Bioware Mining Division comes in handy here as a source of cabling). They could probably power the devices through the cable (generated by Bioware Power Generation) to ensure the game stays up during general power outages (and could prevent the game from being played if their subscription runs out).

 

Bringing all development in house would ensure that they have control over the entire gaming experience and would mean that they could produce the highest quality product possible.

 

ROFLMAO

 

Classic post, reeled me in then BAM! Coke spill

[Dantragk]

I have and the major response from those that do respond is they are having fun.

 

My logic is sound, your skills are minimal at best.

 

Practice

 

Slightly off topic but I've already disproved to you that this game does not involve skill but is gear based. If you have 2 naked 50's then it will come down to class and then skill(think rock paper scissors mushroom). But no fresh 50 will ever...ever...EVER kill a 400+ expertise 50. NEVER.

[Marmerus]

You say that it's not hard to figure out that the engine isn't the cause of all of the problems. Can it not also be said that it's just as possible that none of the problems are caused by the engine? They could be caused by issues at any level of the program.

 

Besides, having full access to the engine's code there is no reason that all of the problems can't eventually be fixed by BioWare. Whether they will (I like to think so) and in what time frame this happens we'll have to wait and see. But it is incorrect to say that 1) the issues can't be fixed and 2) they with any certainty have anything to do with the engine.

 

 

Also, please point out any unintentional typos made in that post other than the one "the" misspelled as "he". I can't find any myself.

The ability delay lag is probably something that came with the game engine since they are having such a hard time removing it, they most likely have to backtrack and find the problem is rooted in the engine and not the actual game.

[MillionsKNives]

The ability delay lag is probably something that came with the game engine since they are having such a hard time removing it, they most likely have to backtrack and find the problem is rooted in the engine and not the actual game.

 

They already said that there were multiple causes to the ability delay. A few of those have been fixed already. It could have had to do with their net code, or a problem with how they set up a thread, or some moron put:

 

if (math.rand() % 2 == 0) {

sleep(1500);

}

handle_input(input);

 

 

It's impossible to know without looking at the code.

[Arkerus]

If Bioware had been serious and had really wanted to make a high-performance high-quality game, they would have brought the entire project in-house rather than using various pre-built components.

 

For example, they would have created BioWare Mining Division to mine and refine ores for circuit boards and components for the SWTOR gaming hardware. They would have developed (in house) an OS for that hardware that had the gaming engine built into the kernel for maximum performance and security.

 

Rather than use the internet (which can be a cause of lag), they would run cables to each player's house (Bioware Mining Division comes in handy here as a source of cabling). They could probably power the devices through the cable (generated by Bioware Power Generation) to ensure the game stays up during general power outages (and could prevent the game from being played if their subscription runs out).

 

Bringing all development in house would ensure that they have control over the entire gaming experience and would mean that they could produce the highest quality product possible.

 

Thank you sir. You win +1 internets.

[Arkerus]

Based on this thread...

 

 

Everyone on the internet is some kind of developer and has worked extensively IN bioware and on the hero engine.

 

They were also there in the meeting room when bioware made the decision to buy an engine and build on it. They know it was not the best decision because they were there and knew all the CTQs and requirements. They tried to stop them but bioware is full of morons and they wouldn't listen.

 

 

 

Good jorb everyone. You are all heroes today.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Arkerus

[Vicen]

I agree...the engine is crap...the game is good...put those two together and it becomes all but average...

[MillionsKNives]

I agree...the engine is crap...the game is good...put those two together and it becomes all but average...

 

"I only read the first post, but you all need to hear what I say. It's important!"

 

Why should we bother to read your post if you don't bother to even read the last page or two?

[DaWaffle]

'Cos it says Hero. Duh.

[Thaerakiel]

You say that it's not hard to figure out that the engine isn't the cause of all of the problems. Can it not also be said that it's just as possible that none of the problems are caused by the engine? They could be caused by issues at any level of the program.

 

Besides, having full access to the engine's code there is no reason that all of the problems can't eventually be fixed by BioWare. Whether they will (I like to think so) and in what time frame this happens we'll have to wait and see. But it is incorrect to say that 1) the issues can't be fixed and 2) they with any certainty have anything to do with the engine.

 

 

Also, please point out any unintentional typos made in that post other than the one "the" misspelled as "he". I can't find any myself.

 

 

 

It's common to modify any game engine and that's not really relevant to the engine's quality. A lot of the SWtOR changes are going back into the main HeroEngine code. You are still constrained by the engine's core design and can easily run into significant limits that can't easily be worked around. If engine customization was so easy you wouldn't see literally hundreds of game engines being available. Most are really ugly hacks and generally evolve from a failed game which is not exactly a strong endorsement. The lack of multi-core support for non-network functions is a significant one for the HeroEngine. There are many others.

 

HeroEngine is a very unproven engine and BW's decision to use it shows that they didn't understand the risk. There's no reason to choose an untested and unproven engine unless you fall for the sales hype or don't have money. It's very likely to be much more buggy than another engine that's been around and used for several successful games. Of course a proven engine is going to cost more money. Prior to SWtOR, the other major game to use the HeroEngine was Faxion Online which was plagued by performance issues and died quickly. The HeroEngine developers have a quote somewhere talking about how much they learned from the Faxion Online issues and I'm sure they will learn a lot more from SWtOR. Maybe after a few more games it be where it needs to be. This highlights another critical point which is when you license a game engine and it's source code you are also getting access to the developers behind the engine and it's better to have a large team with a lot of successful products behind them.

 

As a seasoned web developer I hope you understand the risk of betting the success of a big project on bleeding edge untested technology. So far I haven't seen anything in SWtOR that would warrant taking such as risk. If I was launching a $100m+ MMO I would have chosen a solid engine as the foundation. I would have be very resistant to making my own engine as that has a lot of risk as well. Pick a proven engine and focus on making a great game. Of course if you make your own engine you can always license it to some chump after your game fails.

 

http://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php/topic,889.msg4120.html#msg4120

 

The quote above is from an erlier post in this thread. I also provided a link from someone else's post in this thread pinpointing a major limitation of the engine. You have much more faith in Bioware and this game than I do but the issues between SWTOR and Faxion Online are way to similar to be a coincidence.

Think what you want.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Thaerakiel

[Tuscad]

'Cos it says Hero. Duh.

 

Yeah, they wanted it to be "Heroic" lol.

[Rocsolid]

So... we are doomed regarding the character responsiveness ?

 

If yes, I don't think I'll stay long time...

 

What is this about ability delay? I have not had this since I was beta

[grueber]

This the same engine they use for Duke Nukem?

[purrcatnip]

ahh the hero engine, putting out top notch games such as the following:

 

Faxion Online

Star Wars: The Old Republic from BioWare

 

 

 

Hero's Journey - Company's game the engine was developed for.

Origins - Developed by Burning Dog

Prime: Battle For Dominus by PitchBlack Games

The Repopulation - Being developed by Above and Beyond Technologies

Visions of Zosimos by Forever Interactive

 

Faxion was only open for like 4 months before it went under.

 

No other game in the list was ever released.

[Muskaan]

I do not understand why they did not pick the Unreal 3 Engine. It's a successful engine with a massive game listing.

 

Bioware's own games ME1, ME2 and ME3 were developed using Unreal 3 engine.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3

[angrydurf]

I do not understand why they did not pick the Unreal 3 Engine. It's a successful engine with a massive game listing.

 

Bioware's own games ME1, ME2 and ME3 were developed using Unreal 3 engine.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3

 

Because Unreal 3 engine is an FPS engine and would not work at all for an MMO? It's based on physics and trajectory calculations and hit boxes not ability timers and positioning conditions.

 

The answer to the original question is simple. Because they thought that it would do what they needed without the enormous cost of in in house development. Frankly there is a reason the ME games are all based on the Unreal engine. Because Bioware and EA are not companies that make engines they are development houses. there are very few companies that actually manage to make their own engines because the skills needed to do that are way way different than those needed to do the rest of development.

 

Blizzard has always been a noted exception int he development community for building their games from the ground up. People who make engines tend to suck at making games. there are exceptions but usually that is due to buying other studios who do the rest well. Look at Unreal 3 VS. ANY GAME BUILT ON THE UNREAL 3 ENGINE and you will quickly see that good engine dev team does not equal good game.

 

the core issue people seem to take issue with is the "ability delay" problem which has been largely fixed and the majority of which was outside of any issue with the engien and had far more to do with the implementation on the engine IE involuntary abilities interrupting activation of activatibles like defense(Dodge/parry) interrupting attacks That had little to nothing to do with animations. Animations have canceled on move or activation of another ability since sometime in beta. a couple of abilities are perceived to still cause issues but personally I haven't been able to confirm this. Activate your abilities based on when the CD finishes not when the animation completes and you'll do fine.

[Jimudthesecond]

r u high? Unreal engine is only for FPS games... Really research before you write such crap on the forums. Kids read this and may belive you. MMOs have been developed using the unreal engine, RPGs, ect. Look on wiki. Why all the words? I stoped reading at FPS engine...noob

[raptured]

Warhammer did the same thing. If I could kick the guy in the nads who chose Warhammer's engine I would do so gladly.

 

The hero engine is bad. Champions has the same ability lag this game suffers from.

 

ability lag is an issue I hope they fix soon. I havent started PVP'ing yet but I can imagine if I get unresponsive keys during a match imma be pissed.

[OldBenSmokin]

You're gonna be pissed then. I was.

 

They're not going to fix ability lag, if they could they would have already.

 

 

If I'm wrong... I'll eat my hat and re-subb.

Edited February 17, 2012 by OldBenSmokin

[Abanoth]

Warhammer did the same thing. If I could kick the guy in the nads who chose Warhammer's engine I would do so gladly.

 

 

You can! Just make a smuggler.

[oakamp]

You're gonna be pissed then. I was.

 

They're not going to fix ability lag, if they could they would have already.

 

 

If I'm wrong... I'll eat my hat and re-subb.

^^^^^^

this,

so u un-sub,

a wise choice,

so do I.