Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) guildwars did it right, gear is not an issue, PvP is about skill and competition. the problem you have is all the WoW boyz and girlz comin over here and thinking anything different is a curse to the game. I have the gear, and I still think it is stupid to have a stat that gives such an advantage as expertise, I loved leveling up in PvP when no one was geared with expertise, there was always PvP matches, people were even. it was a BLAST, then people showed up in champion gear and ruined the PvP for everyone else, therefore we have bracket for 50's, Doesn't anyone else see the problem here? PvP WAS fun until one stat was introduced and unbalanced PvP. guess what that was... you got it... expertise. Bioware them selves said that stepping outside of WoW rules is pretty dumb so they obviously are trying to cater to the WoW fans and if you dont approve of that you came to the wrong game Edited January 24, 2012 by Junebugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welve Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Lol on a serious note though.. If you hit 50 and go into a warzone against people with no expertise but are still geared you will be ran over just as bad you will still die your way to success Yeah, but a system that caps the bonus out at around 5-10% more damage is better than what it is now...currently I not only have the stats from purple gear that are much better than the leveling greens and blues, I also have a 12% bonus because of my expertise AND they already would do less damage with greens and blues...I get an another 12% taken off that it is just really silly, I can't imagine what it will be like in 6 months or so, the gap is already big enough I never understood why games don't use stat caps, so much easier to balance: how do you begin to balance a game where some people do and take 15% less damage, others 6%, others 0%, 1% 8%...it is just mind boggling that so many games launch with the idea of balanced fun PVP content and then literally shoot themselves in the foot for ever achieving it. The IA/Smuggler nerf is the perfect example, some IAs, before I got my gear, could absolutely melt me, like 100% to 0% in the blink of an eye. Others got me to 50%, then I could stand and cast a bit or knockback and get composure. Where is the fairness for the guy who got me to 50%? It is disgraceful. Make a better system that puts people on the treadmill for slightly better abilities or something like that. I honestly don't care about the raid gear at all, make it worthless for all I care, or make it exactly equal. The people who want to PVE can do just that and I can PVP: they get rewarded for their progression by doing hard instances because they enjoy it just like I enjoy PVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedricshots Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 how does it unbalance pvp? people with better gear will beat people with crap gear so gear wins? Where's the skill? Give everyone the same gear and skill will prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armethious Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 ROFL @ carebears mad that they can't use your Columi gear to dominate in PVP. I am not sure what side you are supporting, but I want expertise of some kind, but in its current form, Columi gear is superior to Champion gear, so because of that, your statement makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welve Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 how does it unbalance pvp? people with better gear will beat people with crap gear the fact that gear is more determinent of a fight than skill is unbalanced. if someone is better than you at their class, you shouldn't win because you are wearing a better skirt...it is stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yeah, but a system that caps the bonus out at around 5-10% more damage is better than what it is now...currently I not only have the stats from purple gear that are much better than the leveling greens and blues, I also have a 12% bonus because of my expertise AND they already would do less damage with greens and blues...I get an another 12% taken off that it is just really silly, I can't imagine what it will be like in 6 months or so, the gap is already big enough I never understood why games don't use stat caps, so much easier to balance: how do you begin to balance a game where some people do and take 15% less damage, others 6%, others 0%, 1% 8%...it is just mind boggling that so many games launch with the idea of balanced fun PVP content and then literally shoot themselves in the foot for ever achieving it. The IA/Smuggler nerf is the perfect example, some IAs, before I got my gear, could absolutely melt me, like 100% to 0% in the blink of an eye. Others got me to 50%, then I could stand and cast a bit or knockback and get composure. Where is the fairness for the guy who got me to 50%? It is disgraceful. Make a better system that puts people on the treadmill for slightly better abilities or something like that. I honestly don't care about the raid gear at all, make it worthless for all I care, or make it exactly equal. The people who want to PVE can do just that and I can PVP: they get rewarded for their progression by doing hard instances because they enjoy it just like I enjoy PVP So saying get rid of it entirely is dumb the REAL problem is it does too much Remove the increase healing Remove increase damage So we are left with just a damage reduce that way people arent 2 shotting low geared people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTOR-LOVER Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 so gear wins? Where's the skill? Give everyone the same gear and skill will prevail. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssssss!!!!!!!!! EXACTLY! All that SHOULD matter in player versus player combat SHOULD be skill! NOT GEAR nor a combination of Gear and skill, JUST skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 how does it unbalance pvp? people with better gear will beat people with crap gear you answered your own question... endgame gear should be equal in stats. then you actually have to be good at the game to win matches, not just a noob who afk'd matches to get enough valor to get BM gear. the whole gear mentality is flawed, as was said before you cut the refresh rate by 95% because lets face it, who wants to work all day just to come home and get rolled by geared players who have nothing else to do but grind gear. I see SO MANY videos on YouTube with people who spam one ability and roll others because they outgear them, this is a flawed system, skill > gear imo. Sure, have Gear gaps and watch your player base dwindle because none of the new people last long enough in the game to replenish those that are leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 the fact that gear is more determinent of a fight than skill is unbalanced. if someone is better than you at their class, you shouldn't win because you are wearing a better skirt...it is stupid Its called progression in PvE you hit the boss for 5k and the new guy hit him for 3k so lets remove strength/aim/cunning/willpower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 so gear wins? Where's the skill? Give everyone the same gear and skill will prevail. you should really play dcuo, its pvp is all about skill as for giving everyone the same gear, how do you propose they do that? if they give everyone the same gear as pve, all the non geared people are still going to get stomped just as bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armethious Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I want whatever system gets as many people into PvP as possible. The only problem in an MMO I can't work around is lack of players, so my primary concern is what brings in new players and what drives them off. Bingo! That is the correct attitude to have. The vast majority of players are PvE type players. I feel that statement is supportable since there are nearly twice as many PvE servers are there are PvP servers. Good or bad, PvE players have been trained to do content for rewards, if there are no tangible rewards, the likelihood of them getting involved is lower. Which means a gear progression based system of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 the fact that gear is more determinent of a fight than skill is unbalanced. if someone is better than you at their class, you shouldn't win because you are wearing a better skirt...it is stupid its been that way in almost every mmo i have played, except dcuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTOR-LOVER Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Its called progression in PvE you hit the boss for 5k and the new guy hit him for 3k so lets remove strength/aim/cunning/willpower Are we talking about PvE? no? we are talking about PvP. When did anyone say PvE? Never, just you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexryan Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 without a resilience type stat raiders would come into warzones and destroy everything around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welve Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So saying get rid of it entirely is dumb the REAL problem is it does too much Remove the increase healing Remove increase damage So we are left with just a damage reduce that way people arent 2 shotting low geared people or scale it back a lot, even just the damage reduction isn't the best, then you have people that just stay alive forever and ever and people who are left just running to a slightly slower, but just as inevitable death like I said, cap it out at 5-10% MAX, perferably like 7% (5% cent, 6% champ, 7% BM), enhance the availability of decent gear after 50...that you transition from level 40ish greens and blues to level 50 epic gear is also a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Are we talking about PvE? no? we are talking about PvP. When did anyone say PvE? Never, just you. It still applies in PvE if you are geared you will be stronger than someone who just hit 50 so really you just dont know how to respond to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 without a resilience type stat raiders would come into warzones and destroy everything around them. only if pvp gave inferior gear, i think most people are assuming pvp and pve would give identical gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well, if the intention is to have as many people PVP as possible, the current system will not succeed. Eventually, this PVP system will morph into one that is just as bad as Rift. I am not sure how the rated WZs will work, but they might help to balance the playing field whenever they come out. Until then, players will just have to live with a second-rate system that encourages time over skill. Nothing new for an MMO, but disappointing still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 without a resilience type stat raiders would come into warzones and destroy everything around them. They are saying that they want PvE and PvP gear to be identical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTOR-LOVER Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 so really you just dont know how to respond to that I obviously agree with that? PvE should be a completely different story. That's one aspect of MMO's that I think SHOULD be based on progression. However, PvP should be based on skill........... Read what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welve Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Its called progression in PvE you hit the boss for 5k and the new guy hit him for 3k so lets remove strength/aim/cunning/willpower yes except in PVP there is a person on the other end that you are damaging in PVE it is a computer and you are a player satisfaction is a 1-way street in PVE and 2-way in PVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 what is the main problem people have with expertise? do they feel it gives to much of an advantage over non geared players? because the problem will still exist with raid gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) you should really play dcuo, its pvp is all about skill as for giving everyone the same gear, how do you propose they do that? if they give everyone the same gear as pve, all the non geared people are still going to get stomped just as bad I am saying, remove progressive gear completely, have gear sets that are unlocked at certain valor levels, that are cosmetic only, that way as you progress you can get better looking gear , BUT still have the challenge of equal pvp, not OMG BBQ *** GEAR HAX pvp. Expertise by its nature unbalances PvP. you will NEVER have any glimpse of balance in this game with a stat that reduces/improves a players damage taken/damage put out. Edited January 24, 2012 by TheRiddick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welve Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 its been that way in almost every mmo i have played, except dcuo that doesn't mean it is a good system, the status quo is not always the best DCUO was great except the combat could be exploited in some extremely serious ways and it ruined the game. I had fun in that though, leveling was cool in dark age of camelot, I can get geared in like 2 days and be ready to PVP, a week at the max and while I am disadvantaged as a new 50, I am not instantly gibbed or at least not more than anyone else...same with games like UO and even, to some extent, EVE so long as you had the ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I obviously agree with that? PvE should be a completely different story. That's one aspect of MMO's that I think SHOULD be based on progression. However, PvP should be based on skill........... Read what I'm saying. There is no competitive PvP scene to getting gear anyone can obtain it with time so everything you said is irrelevant skill is not needed to obtain it so point still applies since you say someone stats are better than yours you say remove the stat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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