I'm paying for a game. I want the field to be level from the start. That is all. In MW, the better player (i.e. more skilled) will beat the guy that just starts 9 times out of 10 even with the starting weapons. That's naturally how player versus player combat works. If Bioware wants to copy other MMO's flawed systems then whatever, I'll do the grind. But it's not enjoyable. I think they should use their creative talents to come up with something new and innovative to reward the players with something other than giving them an unfair advantage over players who haven't been there as long.

I talk about plausible rewards here check the 2nd post if you care to see what kinds of options I give. Number 5 especially. And yes, fantasy island is fun where skill prevails in player versus player combat.

But I want to play STAR WARS!

lol. Shut up and read.

Then they get an unfair advantage and PvP is no longer based only on skill?

This is so wrong. The challenge itself should NOT be time! It should be skill! Players that play more will be better (see sports example^) at the game! That should be the challenge! Beating players that are just better than you! Not players that have more gear than you!

Can you freaking read? Where does it say expertise anywhere? It does not. I understand how the system works. I am saying to remove EVERYTHING that gives players an unfair advantage in PvP (PvE gear and expertise alike) and bolster stats evenly.

Take sports for example (this is kind of a tricky example though): Take one who plays basketball day in and day out. What do you think will happen to him? He will get better. He won't be rewarded with better shoes or magically be granted an extra 6 inches in height to make him better. He will get more talented. He will get better at playing basketball. MMO's do not NEED this self-created system that gives players that play more an unfair external advantage. These players will just simply get better at the game! If you work more, you will get better naturally! Why do all of you have to argue and say you need to be rewarded for your efforts when in reality, you ARE probably better than those who haven't been playing?

That's why it needs to be gear AND expertise. Everything needs to be equal. The fresh 50 will not win for one reason only in this case: skill. The valor 60+ player will be SO much better that they will obviously win! Why must players be rewarded for playing more when they are most likely already better at their class!??!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2125278#post2125278

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2125278#post2125278

Stop right there. In every other non-mmo game, the biggest reward is skill over time. You get BETTER at the game you are playing if you put more time into it. That's what PvP needs to be about. Skill and that's it. Not gear nor anything else that gives players that play more an unfair advantage.

1) I'm absolutely fine with that poll. That's exactly right. I don't want to have to work to be have a chance at killing you. I want it absolutely equal so it's fair and fun (and based on skill) for everyone from the start. 2) I backup my arguments and explain to you why I call you arrogant. 3) What kind of examples are you looking for? 4) This is a game, not a 2nd life. It should be fun and enjoyable. I'm paying to play and have fun, not to have to work to have fun later. 5) I'm sorry you can't take me seriously. You take that quote completely out of context. People were arguing that since this is an MMO, it must follow every other MMO even if the system is flawed. They might not think it's flawed just like how some people who do drugs don't find what their doing is "bad".

This thread is different btw because it provides plausible replacements to provide the player with that rewarding feeling. Check the second post.

Check that thread, I responded. I'll post it here as well: You don't understand do you? Was it fun getting it? Was it fun getting beat down all the way up until you finally had a complete Battlemaster set? NO! What new player would enjoy that kind of grind getting destroyed and demolished until after A LOT of warzones could come out with a full set. It is NOT easy nor is it FUN to grind up the commendations after getting beat down and demoralized warzone after warzone after warzone by people who are already geared out. Why not just make PvP a solid matchup between players of equal stats to see who is better at the game? Why put hurdles in to reach that point? Who finds that fun?

Hello, Holyhood. You don't understand do you? Was it fun getting it? Was it fun getting beat down all the way up until you finally had a complete Battlemaster set? NO! What new player would enjoy that kind of grind getting destroyed and demolished until after A LOT of warzones could come out with a full set. It is NOT easy nor is it FUN to grind up the commendations after getting beat down and demoralized warzone after warzone after warzone by people who are already geared out. Why not just make PvP a solid matchup between players of equal stats to see who is better at the game? Why put hurdles in to reach that point? Who finds that fun?

I am currently attempting to change this but it is essentially how it works. From what I have seen, you guys are adamant elitist jerks holding on so stubbornly to a flawed system that just rewards people with unfair advantages. I'm trying to change the answers, but these questions ARE the true arguments from both sides. One says PvP should only be based on skill and the rest say to go farm more until you're on our level. I'll try to change "n00bs" to make it less biased. I'm sorry you feel taht way but you should still vote either "yes" or "no", it doesn't change anything.

lol, so this is where your argument turns.... nice.

Before you quote my whole post acting like you read it, at least make yourself seem halfway smart and read the first paragraph you arrogant douchebag. What's wrong with the fact that I want to have fun? I have fun in equal playing fields. The main thing I'm trying to say is this: A hardcore gamer will be better at the game than a casual gamer. That's just fact. They spend more time and therefore will get BETTER at their class. Why do game developers see the need to reward players that are already better because they've naturally acquired more skill over time with an unfair advantage over casuals? Here's the deal, all of the people that are hardcore gamers QQ'ing about how they should absolutely be rewarded for their time with better gear are probably insecure about their actual skill in the game. They're probably scared that casuals will beat them because the gamers that play don't have any advantages and the field is fair and even and they know that they actually have no skill and suck at the game and need that advantage to win. And please elaborate. What's wrong with my poll?

I don't understand why you guys are so adamant, it's ridiculous. MMO - Massively Multiplayer Online. What kind of retarded explanation is "oh this is an MMO and you know every other MMO before it has based their game like this"? I'm sorry, but I don't give a flying f***. Because all other MMO's have a really stupid/flawed system, Bioware should do the same thing? Do you guys have any idea how dumb that sounds? Oh hey, everybody loves drugs, we should do drugs too! That's essentially what you guys are saying. The combat is so unique and so compelling in MMO's that it would seriously attract so many new and different players than it already does instead of people with no lives who enjoy sitting in front of a screen and grinding out their gear just so they could beat up the gearless. Why does it have to be like that? Why can't Bioware FIX this stupid thing all MMO's are following? So many more people would come that way! The game is fun as it is! Give everyone an equal shot and PvP (PLAYER VS PLAYER Not GEAR VS GEAR) would be so much fun! The point isn't to match up 2 players and whoever has invested more time in getting gear wins, it SHOULD be to match up 2 players and see who is BETTER at the game!! I don't give 2 S*** what other MMO's have done. It's a stupid system and needs to be changed. Look at this poll. Although it's only 60 people, that have voted a 75th percent should not be ignored.

Who says you can't do both? What are you talking about? Of course you can start from the beginning in PvE... They are 2 completely DIFFERENT aspects of the game and rewards from one really should not help you with the rewards for the other. E.g. Look at FPS games

Yeah I said it....^ You can vote on your opinion here btw

Why SHOULD I have to apply any effort to be competitive. This is just all of the 40 year old losers sitting out there who probably just suck at playing their class but put so much time into getting gear that all they have to do is faceroll to kill a non-geared player. IT should be based off SKILL NOT GEAR.

That's why everyone should be bolstered to equal EVERYTHING in warzones. Gear shouldn't help stats in PvP.

The point of PvP is to match your skills up against someone else and whoever is better, should win. If you don't understand that, go PvE. Not once did any of us EVER say we don't like PvP. In fact, I freaking loved it (and still do to some degree) when everything was EQUAL and whoever was BETTER at their class won! Although it's still fun, I don't enjoy losing to someone when let's say I have 14k HP and a full geared player has 18k and I bring them down to 4k and he kills me. I don't find that fun and I don't think it's fun to play another 50 warzones to have 18k HP and constantly lose fights like that along the way. Why should I have to work in a game I'M paying for in order to eventually be able to have fun on an equal playing field?