The Expertise stat has to go...

[Hizoka]

So Pretend you just dinged 50 and you are doing some PVP on what you refer to as equal playing terms. I happen to rock up in Full Rakata and utterly destroy you ...

 

What do you call that? Its exactly the same thing!!!!

 

PVP for PVP Gear

PVE for PVE Gear

 

There is always going to be a different rate of gear progression for different people. Even without Expertise .... Therefore, there is always going to be people that are outgeared and getting destroyed ...

 

no what hes saying is EVERYONE regardless of gear ends up with the same stats, so that is SKILL based not gear based. Baddies do not want anything based on skill because they have no crutch to lean on then.

[Husanak]

There is always going to be a different rate of gear progression for different people. Even without Expertise .... Therefore, there is always going to be people that are outgeared and getting destroyed ...

 

Except Bio has already pretty much shown / stated... that that was not really there intention. BOLSTER, is a system they designed to normalize gear in a pvp zone... so that people of different ranks and gear grades can compete. Bolster bumps up gear stats on lower geared players in the 1-49 bracket... (used to be 1-50).

 

What breaks Bolster is EXPERTISE... it is the ONLY stat that is not bolstered. There for they had to split the only players that really have any expertise out of the system... hence the 50 bracket. So what is the real point of expertise... its a bad idea in every game its ever been used in. Most devs just don't have the cajones too upset their hardcore Raiding players.

The real solution is too add a stat too The RAIDING gear, NOT the pvp gear. PvP gear and PvE raid gear should be equal in every single stat... what should be used instead is a Raid stat... expertise in reverse if you will. The highest end raid gear should be = too the PvP gear in PvP.... but have a bump for use in raids and other PvE... End game thats going to be raids and flashpoints, right. Issue solved... Bolster would work properly and 1-50 would be no issues... and honestly the game would work as the Bio employees that designed bolster intended.

[ztee]

no what hes saying is EVERYONE regardless of gear ends up with the same stats, so that is SKILL based not gear based. Baddies do not want anything based on skill because they have no crutch to lean on then.

 

Well, he didnt word it properly ... and if thats the case i kind of agree with him.

 

Everyone should be normalised gear wise so everyone is equal regardless of what they have equiped. Make the incentive then purely asthetic / mounts / titles.

 

ahh never going to happen, but it would be great!

[Holyhood]

Yeah i've been saying this since launch and i agree with the OP. The expertise stat doesn't really accomplish anything, and only has detrimental effects for anybody else trying to PvP.

 

If you removed the PvP stat then everybody would be on the same playing field right from the start, rather than waiting for everybody to gear up to battlemaster before they get evenly matched. Regular stats on gear can still give an edge over the people who are in greens, and this would allow people to matched up with lower levels again without being godlike in damage mitigation.

 

People would still strive for PvP gear as long as it looks unique and ****** and had a stat progression similar to PvE gear. Looks is something people always strive to get in MMOs, and keeping PvP gear looking unique even after expertise is removed ensures people are going to continue to PvP to acquire it. This also lets people know who PvPs a lot and who doesn't. There aren't any negative effects from this.

 

So really in the end all expertise does is make it impossible for anybody without PvP gear to have a fair chance in PVP, which basically just rewards people who got to 50 earliest. The inflation in damage output and mitigation from expertise hurts the PvP game more than it helps the player. Removing this stat will only have beneficial effects on the community.

 

I think you should stop crying about things you could fix yourself.

[Holyhood]

Yeah I said it....^

You can vote on your opinion here btw

 

That is an absolutely terrible poll.

 

It does not have to do with farming as much as putting in the time to get the gear. Do you get all the gears you want in PvE raiding? No.

 

Expertise isn't going anywhere, there's absolutely no point in you lackluster pvpers crying about something that isn't going to change.

 

Man up, run warzones, get commendations.

 

Not hard. Stop being mediocre.

[StealthStalker]

that's not the same page man, in the ward system what is the incentive to just purely pvp? there is none, it's just better to pve...if you only pvped you'd just limit yourself from part of the game for absolutely no reason at all.

 

new player: hmm if i pved i can do both pvp and pve, but if i only pvp then i can only really just pvp....because if i wanted to pve later on i'd have to start from the beginning anyways.

 

The goal is to keep PvP balanced and competitive? Right? I thought that's where we were on the same page. Let me find a few of your previous posts.

 

the whole idea of expertise is to make the fights between players last longer, being blown up within a few seconds is hardly metric for skill. notice how everyone was complaining about operatives? ...

 

pve progression = ....

 

pvp progression = ...

 

if you believe without expertise it would be different, you are definitely living in a dream world. in that world instead of players with expertise gear, you'll be fighting players with raid gear and believe me they will stomp the crap out of you as well. so what's the next step? complain about raid gear in pvp...and what happens when the new pve tier content comes out and ppl have even more stats? when will this end? never...welcome to mmo

 

That's the problem with the current expertise/pvp stat system.

 

My alternative eliminates that to an extent, giving all of us who enjoy PvP the ability to PvP without having advantages over others just because of the gear we wear. Whether that's obtained in PvP or PvE.

 

I agree with you that those of us who PvE can just PvE and enjoy ourselves in PvP all the same. The thing is, it's still balanced. It's still competitive.

 

Everyone who does not like to PvE doesn't have to, they're still competitive in PvP all the same.

 

No, those who only PvP will not be able to progress in PvE at certain tiers instantly, but we're choosing the lesser of two evils here. Sort of, anyway. Part of the PvE allure is progressing from tier to tier.

 

With the Ward system PvP remains competitive, exciting. There's no advantages for doing one or the other.

 

You say someone may choose to primarily PvE and get their gear that way. That's fine isn't it? It doesn't make them more powerful than someone who only PvP's, they just get to see that PvE content.

 

I don't see a downside to that.

Edited January 25, 2012 by StealthStalker

[Razot]

That is an absolutely terrible poll.

 

It does not have to do with farming as much as putting in the time to get the gear. Do you get all the gears you want in PvE raiding? No.

 

Expertise isn't going anywhere, there's absolutely no point in you lackluster pvpers crying about something that isn't going to change.

 

Man up, run warzones, get commendations.

 

Not hard. Stop being mediocre.

 

 

Ironic Overload! lol

 

Guess you need a crutch then.. thats ok PVP isnt for everyone kid!

[Holyhood]

Ironic Overload! lol

 

Guess you need a crutch then.. thats ok PVP isnt for everyone kid!

 

Sorry, who are you?

[Kazzilla]

Welcome to the world of generic MMOs

[xtriadx]

Gear/or more bluntly a single stat should not define your ability to/in pvp..but in this game it does. Stop placating mediocre pvpers by making them feel like they are all that based on nothing but a single stat.

 

Expertise should be removed as it is unnecessary and doing nothing but aggravate your playerbase.

 

Its a crutch..so I expect it will stay.

[Razot]

Sorry, who are you?

 

Just someone who knows a thing or two about competitive PVP.

 

But please continue to show us your epeen its rather funny kiddo!

Edited January 25, 2012 by Razot

[Incursuss]

A level 50 PvP bracket simply will not save the PvP in this game.

 

There is no logical explanation for having a PvP stat in this MMO game, or in fact any MMO game. The only possible reason for Expertise to exist in this game is to screw over people who cant grind it first.

 

Even if you did have a 50's only bracket, you'd be creating more problems than you're fixing. Aside from all the obvious queue time issues, the 50's bracket will suffer from the exact same problems we have now; the bracket will divided up into New 50's and Old 50's, ie. people who dont have their 10% Expertise bonus yet, and those that do.

 

But you might say, "Everyone will become an Old 50 eventually." and yes, they might. But then what would be the point in everyone having the same 10% Expertise bonus, when all it's going to do is cancel out everyone elses 10% Expertise bonus. The only outside issue there is that healing will still be 10% stronger, but if you wanted that why wouldn't you just lower the Trauma debuff by 10%?

 

It's honestly unimaginable to even begin to hope to understand what anyone was thinking when they thought putting Expertise into the game would be a good idea.

 

 

Removing the stat doesn't mean PvP Gear has to go, the point of PvP Gear/Experience/Credits in the first place is so that people who want an alternative to PvE can still progress. There all kinds of stats in this game that mean you could make all kinds of PvP Gear Sets, whether they are Purple or Mods, so people can look however they want to, or however you want them to look, and they can mix and match all these different pieces of gear to whatever their hearts desire. To give you an idea of the combinations of gear that could be possible:

 

- Primary Stat

- Endurance

• Crit Rating
  
• Surge
  
• Alacrity
  
• Power
  

 

Now reverse the Primary Stat and Endurance, so that Endurance is the bigger of the two and look how much choice you have... something for everyone, even. Now when you're 50 and you arent bolstered anymore, you can decide which stat you want more of, in return for lower stats on other stuff, or you can even decide to have an equal balance.

 

A crazy thing, having a choice, isn't it? Like choosing to have Fun over Frustration. Or choosing to resubscribe... or perhaps not.

 

 

 

I'm not even mad.

 

U need to L2P instead of making post this long.

 

I hit 50 3 days ago and i have no trouble at all in PvP. Im not as good as others but neither are raiders when they first start out.

[Holyhood]

Just someone who knows a thing or two about competitive PVP.

 

But please continue to show us your epeen its rather funny kiddo!

 

Yeah a thing or two. Yet you hide behind a faceless avatar and a no-name handle. RIGHTO.

 

If people like you who say they actually know things about PvP then you would know there is a gear cap. Always.

 

Right now, its battlemaster. Not hard to get.

 

But do, please... keep crying about things you "know so much about".

[Razot]

Yeah a thing or two. Yet you hide behind a faceless avatar and a no-name handle. RIGHTO.

 

If people like you who say they actually know things about PvP then you would know there is a gear cap. Always.

 

Right now, its battlemaster. Not hard to get.

 

But do, please... keep crying about things you "know so much about".

 

Im only worried about my food supply.

 

I only have an interest in world PVP, having a pvp only stat will kill world PVP before its even fixed wich makes me a bit sad.

 

I come from 6 years of EVE brah anonymity is my friend..

Edited January 25, 2012 by Razot

[Incursuss]

Im only worried about my food supply.

 

I only have an interest in world PVP, having a pvp only stat will kill world PVP before its even fixed wich makes me a bit sad.

 

I come from 6 years of EVE brah anonymity is my friend..

 

ex pandemic legion here

[Razot]

ex pandemic legion here

 

 

 

RZR,Goons and meta alts

 

/ Bow to PL overlord.

 

The meta game on the evict NC campaign was brilliant.

[Vrumpt]

I think you should stop crying about things you could fix yourself.

 

Thanks for your input that I won't value at all. You clearly aren't capable of thinking outside the confines of the ideas this MMO era has restricted yourself in.

 

You can still have your PvP gear that is endurance heavy, and have it look entirely different from other gear.

 

All expertise has done for swtor so far is get our pvp pool cut in half resulting in longer queue times for everybody. Removing it allows us to reverse this and let us play with people who are lower level, and those lower levels won't be bashing on a brick wall anymore.

[KOTOR-LOVER]

Yeah a thing or two. Yet you hide behind a faceless avatar and a no-name handle. RIGHTO.

 

If people like you who say they actually know things about PvP then you would know there is a gear cap. Always.

 

Right now, its battlemaster. Not hard to get.

 

But do, please... keep crying about things you "know so much about".

 

Hello, Holyhood. You don't understand do you? Was it fun getting it? Was it fun getting beat down all the way up until you finally had a complete Battlemaster set? NO! What new player would enjoy that kind of grind getting destroyed and demolished until after A LOT of warzones could come out with a full set. It is NOT easy nor is it FUN to grind up the commendations after getting beat down and demoralized warzone after warzone after warzone by people who are already geared out. Why not just make PvP a solid matchup between players of equal stats to see who is better at the game? Why put hurdles in to reach that point? Who finds that fun?

[AlbertXP]

what are you freaking kidding me? The playing field is equal. Anyone who pvp'd for more than 1 week has full champion. And battlemaster is only slightly better than that. You can basically get 14+ bags the first day you ding 50 if you saved commendations while leveling, that should get you quite a few pieces of champion gear and enough centurion comms to buy a piece.

 

I don't want no full rakata raider being effective at pvp. And I dont want a full battlemaster to be able to raid just as well as a rakata. Its as simple as that.

Gear progression as an incentive is always nice and should stay.

[Screttle]

like with every game you put in the time u get rewarded, the stat is ur reward for killing hundreds and grinding out the gear. what is the point in having no buffs or no difference between the people just 50 to those who have spend hopefully the game lasts to 2years of game play. the higher valour rank the more options u should have available because u have earnt it!!!! most people cry about it coz they dont play 12 hours a day, im lucky to play 1-3hours but i love the challenge to fight people that know all of their classes. i Love the Challenge of being under powered and succeeding, it develops skill and better game play. i dont see all the fuss if it is such an issue reduce it to 5% or something minor but in the long run makes a larger difference.

[KOTOR-LOVER]

like with every game you put in the time u get rewarded, the stat is ur reward for killing hundreds and grinding out the gear.

 

Stop right there. In every other non-mmo game, the biggest reward is skill over time. You get BETTER at the game you are playing if you put more time into it. That's what PvP needs to be about. Skill and that's it. Not gear nor anything else that gives players that play more an unfair advantage.

[Screttle]

Hello, Holyhood. You don't understand do you? Was it fun getting it? Was it fun getting beat down all the way up until you finally had a complete Battlemaster set? NO! What new player would enjoy that kind of grind getting destroyed and demolished until after A LOT of warzones could come out with a full set. It is NOT easy nor is it FUN to grind up the commendations after getting beat down and demoralized warzone after warzone after warzone by people who are already geared out. Why not just make PvP a solid matchup between players of equal stats to see who is better at the game? Why put hurdles in to reach that point? Who finds that fun?

 

all people would do mate is wear **** gear or none.. to lower stats then change gear once they enter... what is even the point of your comment!!! there is way to much game mechanics involved to even try to match people based on that, to much wasted time and effort i say just to make people with no mates in game to help them. its not hard to chat to people in game or stick with a healer and work together. if u want single player game dont play mmos.

[ztee]

Hello, Holyhood. You don't understand do you? Was it fun getting it? Was it fun getting beat down all the way up until you finally had a complete Battlemaster set? NO! What new player would enjoy that kind of grind getting destroyed and demolished until after A LOT of warzones could come out with a full set. It is NOT easy nor is it FUN to grind up the commendations after getting beat down and demoralized warzone after warzone after warzone by people who are already geared out. Why not just make PvP a solid matchup between players of equal stats to see who is better at the game? Why put hurdles in to reach that point? Who finds that fun?

 

You need to remember that fun is a subjective term ..... It's a MMO, they are a grind. You can argue for normalisation of gear / stats - but what incentives would you have they offer to keep you playing the game? Sure asthetics / titles / mounts or whatever are all great, but do you feel more powerful over time?

 

I personally like to see the gradual increase in my power / abilities, it gives me something to strive for. If losing a little for a week or two (and lets be honest, thats all it really takes) is all i have to go through, then im ok with that.

[KOTOR-LOVER]

You need to remember that fun is a subjective term ..... It's a MMO, they are a grind. You can argue for normalisation of gear / stats - but what incentives would you have they offer to keep you playing the game? Sure asthetics / titles / mounts or whatever are all great, but do you feel more powerful over time?

 

I personally like to see the gradual increase in my power / abilities, it gives me something to strive for. If losing a little for a week or two (and lets be honest, thats all it really takes) is all i have to go through, then im ok with that.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2125278#post2125278

[xxdragonragexx]

OK I'M GOING TO EXPLAIN WHY EXPERTISE IS NEEDED!!! People are confusing expertise with gear progression.

 

For our example, I'll take away expertise. There is no expertise anymore in the game.

But we still have gear progression meaning tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 armor and weapons.

 

Now tell me, A VALOR 60+ PLAYER IN FULL BATTLEMASTER VS A FRESH 50. The gears do not have expertise. What do you think will happen? Do you think the the fresh 50 will somewhat miraculously have a chance? Of course not. With or without expertise, that fresh 50 is going to get rolled BECAUSE OF GEAR!!!! BECAUSE THERE IS GEAR PROGRESSION.

 

Expertise is there so that people who raid will not be able to suddenly go to warzones and wreck pvpers through gear. It's the only reason expertise is there.