I would say overall its still to early for me to say I love all of it. I will say I like it more then I thought I would. At this point I have only really gave a few of the "trees" a shake. I really like that you can now make a more mobile marksman.. I rolled a new sorc to test out leveling and all the crazy aoe at low level does feel pretty epic. (perhaps way to powerful but you can't say people won't have more fun earlier). Overall the people complaining need to go play it... MMOs change its the way it is. This won't be the final version of our toons before the servers shut off at some future point either.

STO end game with content... hmmm sure if you mean running the same Patrol. (enemy encounter) 100+ times per level. lol Really though Eve is a great choice if your into PvP... or like your pve with a ting of pvp danger anyway. Manual controls coming right away to.

They could always just bind whip to every key they have if its all they intend to use. Be a good way to avoid any strain.

I guess the and the word Seriously... where lost on you somehow. Its not any player saying project isn't an intended skill for that AC its Bio btw. Of course its a game and you can play it anyway you want. Your right though yes most people don't understand wanting to not use a better skill on your bar because you prefer and animation. (the OP may still like the new animation anyway) I mean where does that thinking end... as a shadow do you not use Shadow Strike anymore cause you like the standard attack animation more ? Yes choosing a weaker skill is nerfing your own numbers... if your soloing things and that's what gives you a chuckle go to town. As long as your happy as a player who cares... If your doing it in a pug or something though. I don't understand why anyone would be shocked if others ask them what they are thinking. (another wink there see, don't take things to serious)

Yes feel free to gimp yourself. Seriously though you might like the new animation better. I always found project a bit silly... guess it was just me.

Why would you be trying to heal before level 30 or so ? Really your just making things painful for yourself no matter what toon your playing. I don't find there's much point in trying to heal on any of the heal classes until you at least get your level 25 tree skill anyway.

That is a good point... dropping to the knee really doesn't take very long, I agree it wouldn't much change the class, Charged would still go never used and sabo would still be extremely so so. Really I find the only time I use sabo is when I'm board or on a sleeped npc. I mention the upper hand biff mainly cause I would like to see them do something good with the skill at the top of the tree... I think scsrapper could be fixed by allowing sabo at the cost of one upper hand to be used with no global. Then again perhaps it doesn't need the upper hand and would still work balance wise even with a trait that would allow that added.

I agree it wouldn't be worth it unless it was tied into a nice pay off with a trait. Leveling wise none of the trees offer much to do with the upper hands anyway. So you would have a choice between the AOE blaster sweet and the single target sabo. End game... trait changes could make the use of an upper hand buff worth the spend. I wouldn't expect them to allow us to use it with out taking a knee with out some cost.

Yes those are good ideas and similer to what I was talking about earlier. What I was suggesting was adding to traits 6 and 7 levels up... so that they could not be hybrid built to do multiple things... I suggested for the scrapper tree for a hi level trait that allowed sab charge to be used with out a global... to add burst dmg to the tree at the top. I suggested for the dirty fighting tree to make sabo charge an alt way to trigger Hemoraging. (the Burst in the tree... tier 5 skill is wounding shot which causes tons of interneal dmg on bleeding targets... a trait a level or 2 up could give the same effect on a delay to sabo charge allowing for a large burst further down the time line in an engagement). Your idea to change it to a dmg reflect style heal in the heal tree is a cool idea... at the cost of an upper hand buff it would have a real healing cost... however it could be a great option game play wise. I like that idea.

You have obviously never played the class. There is no dot tree. Trust me the dot tree is in fact the burst dmg tree... you won't understand that until you play a late game dirty fighter. Also no one is asking for some magic skill that will make short sighted pve kids want a stealth dps class. Even when the scrapper tree was the best PvP burst class going way back when the class wasn't the first choice for pve. Every class has its strengths. Its true though right now there isn't really much the scound does dps wise that isn't bettered by other classes. Which is sort of why it makes sense to buff the skills that would make sense to buff. In any event we won't agree... I think its pretty clear anyone that has played a Scoundrel pretty much agrees it would be nice to change the way the 2 cover only skills we have work. As well that the scrapper tree could use a dmg, and the preference would be a burst style buff. Believe what you like.

There is no need to change it under 10... ranges change on skill as well depending on which AC you take... so its not like there isn't a precedent for skills changing. Every class has level 10 passives that change skills. Slingers get hold position at 10 that changes there cover and 3x the range buff... Scoundrels get upper hand and stealth. Jedi get range increases and 60s placates majorly changing staple sub level 10 skills. Not to mention that one AC gets 500 power at level 10 instead of the 100 pool they started with. Jedi Knighs are done a bit different the skills don't change much but they both get different mechanics Troopers commandos get range extensions to staple skills and there explosive round fires twice What we are saying is make the 2 skills that require cover... switch from requiring cover (the Gunslinger secondary resource if you will) ... and make it instead require the Upper hand buff (the Scoundrel secondary resource). This would be in line with the level 10 changes that all the classes have. At level 10 passive skills exist for every advanced class that either extend ranges, or increase defense buff times, or placates. It seems logical to change the 2 skills that are left behind using the Slingers resource to be switched over to the Scoundrel resource. At that point there would be no balance issues... and they can play with high level DPS tree traits to add burst dmg to Scrapper... and some form of alternate Hemorage execute for the dirty fighting tree. (increasing the burst of scrapper... which at one time was the highest burst tree in the game... and overing a variation to the second dps tree... which at the moment is has much more burst then the burst tree). They could even be used to perhaps balance the healing tree slighly... make charged burst and upper hand using debuff skill for the healer at the expense of some numbers from one of the higher tree healing traits. (my suggestion was the trait that gives our defense screen a self heal when it expires... reduce our self heal slighly and give us a team debuff I think could make the healing tree a bit more interesting to play and help polish it off) PS... keep in mind there is no trade here. Saying scound is all heals is just plain wrong. There is no magic hybrid spec that really lets you do both dps and healing.... they are already careful to ensure any real defining traits for any of the trees are not low enough to allow for effective hybrid specs. (that;s every class.. almost anyway)

Keybinds make you weak... locking yourself into rotations is just a bad idea. As a few others have suggested get a naga. Never click anything again as clicking is just to slow. I use my Naga 1-12 for my main bar... shift + 1-12 for my second bar.... Control + 1-12 for my third bar. I don't bother in TOR cause there is no need but in other mmos you can ALT+1-12 as well for a fourth bar. With that setup you can very quickly button push 36 skills. Then its just a matter of learning when to use what. As well as aranging your skills in a way that makes sense. So for instance... when I have 2-3 defense cool downs... I will line them up .. so 8 key is my main defense cool down... shift 8 is my second... and control 8 is my third. Ect..... I also arange things so they flow on my naga... so for instance 4 is right above the 7 key on the mouse. So I would perhaps have a proc skill on 7 so when I use 4 my thump can just continue down and pop the proc skill.

So whats your argument here or are you making ours ? The answer to a class under performing is to buff it... not suggest everyone play another class. lol First off I don't believe the smug Dirty Fighting tree is lacking... its a great DPS tree. Its just not 1 2 1 2 smash like the knight / warrior class is for the most part. It takes a bit of brains to play and having the tool kit of counters for pvp is part of what makes the class so appealing to many people. Scrapper tree is for sure under performing... and if they are going to reduce the defense in that tree some more... I think it could use a burst buff myself... and I think the 2 neglected cover skills would be the perfect way to do it. So now mr Marauder go role a smuggler or an operative. If you are not a horrible player you won't be logging in your saber guy much after you fall in love with the class. lol

First I understand you believe you have a point, really though I suggest you in fact play the class you are talking about as it is clear you don't really understand it. Operatives in general are close in fighters. Most abilities are 10m, the hard hitting "staple" skills don''t work unless you first pop off skills in the 4m range. As in you HAVE to pistol whip in order to build upper hand buffs so you can use your "staples". Operative / scound IS or at least it always was a close in dmg class. The class has taken a lot of changes since launch that have reduced that. Anyway, no point arguing with you further on a class all you have done is read about. Go play one if you would really like to speak on this topic with any authority.

As classes all have passives that give them either more Endurance... or extra procs on skills. Cover in place for Gunslingers gets defense ratings... Blaster whip adds scound upper hand buffs. The entire point of the thread is... they have made changes to cover on the scound saying that it was never there intention for us to use cover once we choose our AC. Which is sort of crazy as I just upgraded my Sabo charged at level 44 on my newest Scoundral. I'm not supposed to use cover but I have skills that require cover how does that make sense... I didn't design it that way they did. IF they want to go with that cool... then design a passive that allows us to NEVER use cover as they say was there intention.

There is a big difference honestly... I don''t know if you have played both classes or not... but I am dirty kicking and pistol whipping all the time on my GS... obviously not as often as I do on a scoun... but they are useful ... you don't consider taking a stun and a massive instant kinetic dmg skill off your bar. Sabo is situational useful still to the other class as it doesn't wake targets... and its still a very good dmg skill even later with no upgrades... charged of course makes no sense. I honestly can't think of any skill from the other classes off the top of my head that become completely useless at level 11. I say myself they have changed things to remove one possible source of defense from the AC... so why not look ad doing something to make those 2 forgotten skills do something again... and perhaps add something that is a little lacking in the trees at the same time. My thought is to fold them back into the AC mechanic... which is why I suggested making them Upper Hand Spend abilities and remove the cover requirement from them. Then Tie a high level trait from each tree to the skills in a way that makes them a possible alt rotation. I have always liked that the class was slighly more involved then some of the other 1 2 1 2 1 3 style Classes in this game. If you read through my tree suggestions I think you will see I was thinking of a way to change up the rotation a bit... so we can have more rotation changes depending on the situation. Instead of the rinse repeat most of the trees are now.

I think your sort of missing the point... No one is arguing that Sabo Charge and Charged Burst should be in a rotation for a scound right now. Sabo is still very good in some cases... like for instance I like to play full bleed spec... so my dots don't effect sleeping targets... so you sleep 1 of 2 Elite Npcs... when the first goes down you can pre dot and sabo charge on it for a nice lead on dmg. What the point of the thead is... why not change those 2 skill a bit so they make sense for both classes. Its not like Gun Slingers don't dirty kick anymore when they hit level 10.

Oh I wasn't aware Bio was creating rotation guides.

You can use sabo charge easy enough by just taking a knee. Its a good skill and hits hard why would I not use it. (you can also set it up on a sleeping NPC) Having to take a knee is pretty bad design though honestly... both Sabo and Charged burst could both be turned into non cover skills... that just don't get dmg upgrades... however a high level trait could be changed / added to to add something interesting to fit the theme of the 3 trees... and perhaps even improve the end game quality of the 2 dps trees somewhat. It could be very easily tailored to help improve the op DPS trees... heck it could even be folded into the Heal tree. Think of this change. For Sabotage Charge Level 20 passive... allows Sabotage Charge to be used out of cover, requiring an upper hand. (no dmg increases) Sawbones Change Med Screen (perhaps remove what it does now to reduce some Sawbones self healing / or add it) - Rename it Incendiary Nano Tech... Sabo Charge detonates for X dmg over 21s. Scrapper Add to K.O trait. - 50%/100% chance to proc Rapid Sabo Trigger. Next Sabo charge does not respect the global cool down. Dirty Fighting Add to Concussion trait - When Sabo charge detonates it also causes the target to haemorrage X dmg per bleed applied. For Charged Burst Level 20 passive... allows Charged Burst to be used out of cover, requiring an upper hand. (no dmg increases) Sawbones Change Smuggled Med Delivery Trait - In addition to granting 1-2 stacks of upper hand when exiting cloak... also procs Placebo round which causes the smugglers next charged burst to reduce the targets dmg by 2.5% / 5% for 10s. {Barbiturate Round might be a funnier name lol} Scrapper Change Rolling Punches - In addition to back blast and shoot first triggering rolling punches... trait also has 33/66/100% chance to trigger Gambers Draw - Next Charged Burst activates instantly and has a 50/50 chance to fire twice and regrant upper hand. Dirty Fighting Unfair Advantage -Rename Advantage scoundrel - in addition to the unfair advantage proc. Trait also has a 20/40/60% chance to proc Outlaws Advantage - Causes the next Charged shot to activate instantly and reapply any current bleed effects on target, as well as recharge Hemoraging blast debuff.

I agree if we are not supposed to use cover the drop the having to take a knee to pop the 2 skills we have that require it. In fact... at a specific level give us a passive skill that allows both to be used out of cover... reduce there power costs by half and require an upper hand / opp.

Indeed frankly I think I even remember a thread back in beta about it... I burned myself bad during beta and only ended up subbing for 5 or 6 months. Really though after all this time I thought it would have been added. There are for sure more options and its much improved since I left. Just sort of assumed this one would have been a no brainer by now... its not like people are asking for a crazy rift like macro system or something. Wasn't aware there was a UI sub forum ? Sorry honest question... which subforum should this be under ?

Recently back after a good long hiatus. Mostly having a good time since I got back. One thing that drove me nuts before though and is still driving me NUTS. Is the UIs lack of options in regards to player buff display. Its nice that I can enlarge them or shrink them... and do that independent for buffs and debuffs. However on many of my toons I am still constantly hunting that STUPID darn bar for my proced temp buffs. I get it my toon is supposed to laugh or have something light up ect ect... bottom line I still spend 90% of my time staring at the darn bar instead of the game. My suggestion... a Secondary Buff Window that can be toggled on and off.... one that has a list of CLASS buffs that can be shown... it would be very nice to have a window in Eye sight that would pop up with Upper Hands / Force Strikes / Wraiths ect ect ect. Another option is to allow us to tune the size of buffs on a per buff basis. Without such a window this game feels unfinnished to me.

Neither do the devs.... Expertise should in fact be a PvE stat. PvP gear should have the exact some stats as the Rakkatta stuff... minus the expertise stat. (which should provide a bonus to dmg and defense vs PvE NPCs... and perhaps even an extra (or only boost stats) vs elite class and higher NPCS). That keeps the PvP gear on par 100% for PvP... and reduces any PvE gear that comes into PvP to the same level... by not engaging there PvE "Expertise" stat against players. It also makes the idea of farming a good set of pve gear from pvp a no go. Everyone is happy... (well every one but the kids that enjoy having an artificial advantage)

Sort of depends on the class you where fighting... BH and Troopers (both acs) can spec there defense shield to remove movement impairing debuffs. They can also spec them so the cool down on there shield gets lowered quite a bit while under fire. The OP / Smug movement debuff removal cast is on a longer cool down but they do still have it. Sins and Shadows can easily spec there force speed to both have a 20 sec cool down and Remove movement impairing debuffs. The jugs and Guards have unstoppable... the sents and marus will disapear so its hard to miss that. Anyway not saying its not possible the dude was perhaps doing something funny... just saying there is a few classes that have spec options that may not be super popular but can be effective and helping them shrug of a little extra CC.

People defending the amount of CC in this game are just plain bad. There is no skill involved in it 90% of the time. CC in this game is really really easy. Most games you may have 1 or 2 stuns and or slows... and they mostly don't have like 8-12 second cool downs. lol The idea of a Resolve bar to take the presure off that is good... but it is also in its current form far far 2 weak. Yes we all get one breaker... that at 1:30 to 2:00 on a cool down really isn't all that great compared to the massive amount of CC being thrown around with the fore mentioned stupid low cool down times. Would you ever ever use your break on a slow ??? no likely not right cause the opportunity cost is way to high... so slows and roots are almost never countered. Making them so extremely annoying that most people don't play the game anymore... lets all be honest we all have friends from other games that have left and when you talk to them POST tor... they very lovingly refer to this game as "Stun Wars". I am sorry I have seen way to many extremely good players (as in top ranked in other 8+ year mmos) leave laughing at this game to think its just me. This game has some great fight mechanics..... I even love the idea of the resolve bar in theory... but it needs a major buff... Like I was saying earlier have it trigger MUCH faster... and last 1/2 as long... give people a reason to coordinate there CC... and spread it out in a 1 on 1 type situation... instead of Stun Stun Root Slow Stun... pretty much every single time the cool downs come up. There is only one bad time to hit a stun on someone... and it pretty much won't trigger until the 2-4th stun depending... and there IS NEVER A BAD time to use a slow or root... its mindless, no talent involved game play.