I unsubscribed, and here's why.

[Jordan_Hoffman]

Apparently prophesied by a culture that (while holding great knowledge of our Galaxy) sacrificed virgins frequently to make the sun and fall daily?

 

Last part made no sense, but, its fact that they are the reason we have a Sun and Icebergs. Fact

[AJediKnight]

I'm really not trying to point out the hypocrisy in this post.

 

Hi there. Do you own a calendar? Might want to break it out and check the date. Yeah. It's 'that time of year,' brah. Not everyone is an anti-social forum troll. I'm out of town. That's life.

 

I have concerns that I may one day get to tell my nerdy friends that I was amongst the last people playing TOR before it was shutdown for good.

 

Sorry, but I do not believe you. Anyone who loved TOR enough to vow to 'fight until the end' wouldn't willingly lend their voice in support of these jackals.

 

Does the game have some decidedly weak aspects? Absolutely. Hell, I think the Legacy System is a complete crock, and the action delay is laughable. But none of it -- not one bit of it -- is enough to make me believe that the game is doomed. Six months from now, almost none of the things these trolls are roaring about will be an issue any longer.

 

But, again, your willingness to cast your lot behind this bunch makes you as bad as any of them.

[tpanisiak]

In my opinion the naysayers should just allow the game to die or flourish. Your opinion means next to nothing compared to the vast majority, and frankly, there is no way to know what the vast majority thinks.

 

Either support the game by playing and posting constructive feedback/stories/comments or let the game die if you believe that it will. There is no need for naysayers, trolls, or underminers....you just add drama and make the community that much worse.

 

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

 

But you have to understand the frustration from the other point of view here. When we paid for ToR we supported this game and plenty of people are feeling rather robbed. The feedback/stories/comment/criticism has been posted numerous times before and has gone unanswered by developers/publishers.

 

I think having these types of threads are relevant, despite the **** storm it brings. This is feedback, these threads: If you read without wanting to jump down their throats you'd see plenty of people have legit concerns.

 

I think deep down the people that say, "I quit, here's why!" really just wants Bioware and EA to recognize there's a problem: they should work on it soon.

[Djoffer]

link or it didnt happen

 

I have a link i would like to post:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6348119.html?tag=newsticker%3Bheadline%3B1

 

A few quotes from that article:

"estimated the subscriber base of Star Wars: The Old Republic at 1.5 million players or more"

"saying cumulative playtime for last weekend had topped 5.5 million hours"

"Electronic Arts said in February The Old Republic would be "substantially profitable" with just 500,000 subscribers, with anything above 1 million monthly users making the game "very profitable.""

 

Somehow i doubt this game is doomed any time soon:)

[OldMajor]

I wish I could select the option for Yaaaawwwwwnnn!

[Luier]

Themepark mmos suck.

[tpanisiak]

Hi there. Do you own a calendar? Might want to break it out and check the date. Yeah. It's 'that time of year,' brah. Not everyone is an anti-social forum troll. I'm out of town. That's life.

 

Maybe I misunderstood, but I felt you implied that I should be playing the game and not posting on the forums, when, you were doing the same?

 

Misunderstanding is all. I too am out of town. I have a job - - I work in law, I am not an anti-social forum troll. I also have a life.

 

Sorry, but I do not believe you.

 

There's nothing to believe or not believe. I'm expressing concern, not fact.

 

Anyone who loved TOR enough to vow to 'fight until the end' wouldn't willingly lend their voice in support of these jackals.

 

Does the game have some decidedly weak aspects? Absolutely. Hell, I think the Legacy System is a complete crock, and the action delay is laughable. But none of it -- not one bit of it -- is enough to make me believe that the game is doomed. Six months from now, almost none of the things these trolls are roaring about will be an issue any longer.

 

But, again, your willingness to cast your lot behind this bunch makes you as bad as any of them.

 

You're putting my deserved concern at ease, but you're doing it in a way that makes me feel like I'm to blame?

 

Your willingness to cast your voice with the people who are fiercely defending this game against people who have legit concerns makes you just as bad as well.

[Jxspyder]

Just as there are the same 5-6 fanboys that will angrily defend this game, even when someone (ie: me) is trying to give credit to the developers? I'm trying to be on your side here.

 

But honestly, take a step out of these forums and read other forums, or comments to online reviews. There's plenty of concern there, too. Not just here where someone is attempting to snag the attention of Bioware or EA because they felt robbed.

 

You should really take a second and learn the meaning of the words "Vocal Minority."

 

That's what you're describing. A small handful of people....and yes, we're only dealing with a small handful when compared to the actual game's population.....are complaining and phrophesying the downfall, destruction, and utter ruin of this game. Which in the grand scheme of things, indicates that a vast majority of the people aren't taking the time to complain, whine, moan, or cry for attention. Rather, they're more than likely simply playing the game. But if you honestly took a step back, this would be rather obvious.

 

 

I'll tell you what though. I'll give you $1,000 if you title your house to me on Dec. 22, 2012. You'll be a grand richer, and since the world is going to end the day before, you simply won't need it, right?

Edited January 2, 2012 by Jxspyder

[Darren_Kitlor]

Most other mmo's failed due to their beta state. Even if they are great games now (see Conan for an example) - it doesn't matter, the damage is done in the first month.

 

The damage is done and SWTOR will be a failure. This is a fact.

 

[citation needed.]

[bbbmmmlll]

WoW was a disruptive MMO when it launched and had main stream appeal because of Blizzard's history. By disruptive, I mean it altered in a significant way the design of all future MMO's that followed. The unforgiving game play of UO, AC, EQ and DAoC were replaced by player friendly features. Oddly that's kind of what Apple has been doing lately - taking everyone's crap and turning it into something so much better. It was a bit of a perfect storm as far as product launches go. No other MMO has been in that position so it's not really fair to compare SWtOR to it. It's not the second coming of WoW and no game probably ever will be. You could argue that SWtOR could have been, but it isn't.

 

SWtOR isn't disruptive, the story drive approach is an interesting feature but it doesn't have long term appeal as listening to the same story lines gets old after a couple times. Other than the story aspect, I haven't seen anything that really sets it apart other than the setting. Long term it will appeal to causal players, BioWare fans and Star Wars fans. I don't expect subscription numbers to increase beyond what they currently have at launch - the people looking to replace WoW aren't going to stay around or won't even bother to check it out so that doesn't leave a lot of potential subscribers. I'd be curious to hear from anyone that switched from WoW to SWtOR and thinks they will be playing SWtOR long term.

 

Other than some FPS issues, I've really enjoyed the game so far and I'll run a few characters to level 50 before I unsubscribe. I don't really care about the end game because I'll quit when I hit it. So for me, that gives BioWare about three months to really impress me which I don't see happening. Then it will depend on how interesting the expansion packs are.

 

I don't really know what BW can do at this point. The core game just isn't that innovative. Personally I'd love to see the space aspects of the game improved - add in open exploration, trade and combat. The only real option available is EVE and EVE is still kind at the EQ stage in regards to be very causal gamer unfriendly.

[Jxspyder]

I have a link i would like to post:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6348119.html?tag=newsticker%3Bheadline%3B1

 

A few quotes from that article:

"estimated the subscriber base of Star Wars: The Old Republic at 1.5 million players or more"

"saying cumulative playtime for last weekend had topped 5.5 million hours"

"Electronic Arts said in February The Old Republic would be "substantially profitable" with just 500,000 subscribers, with anything above 1 million monthly users making the game "very profitable.""

 

Somehow i doubt this game is doomed any time soon:)

 

I've got a second link.

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/%5Bnews-category%5D/20111226

 

The really important part:

 

•Over 60 million in-game hours – roughly equivalent to watching all six Star Wars movies over 4 million times

•Over 850,000 Sith Warriors and over 810,000 Jedi Knights created

•Over 260 million quests completed

•Over 44 million PvP battles

•Over 9 million space combat missions completed

•Over 3 billion NPCs killed

 

 

This was as of the 26th.

[JnEricsonx]

I never played WoW, I played COH/V for 4 years and loved it, mainly because, yes, I was PL'd, built my chars and just did TFs and the like with friends, making engines of destruction/control, or "Come at me bro" tanks and protected my team. So lemme get this straight....I can do the same thing in a STAR WARS game, have a voice and personality, and its written by Bioware? Yeah, thats why I'm paid up till May. My only gripes are:

 

Some costs seem too high, even in early 20s, crafting, skills, etc.

My computer kinda sucks.

Sometimes its weird seeing a level 15 enemy kick a level 22 character's butt.

 

Other than that, I've had little trouble. I am truly sorry for anyone raging at how much they hate this game, that its not all you wanted. But sympathy only goes so far, you're acting like Greg and Ray-who I have met btw(NYC Launch FTW) ran over your family in a AT-AT driven by Jar Jar Binks on a 5th of Tequlia. I am a moderate fanboy, to paraphrase:

 

"I am Grey, I stand between the candle, and the star." Or, in other words, I stand between the ragers, and the blind devotees. This goes for any fandom I like. I would have loved for STO to have ME/KOTOR's dialogue/voice system, really would have gotten to play my Captain as I truly would like. But, its not in the cards. So, in short, if you hate the game, fine, please just go, if the game flames out, you can laugh your asses off then. Till then, save the hate for the people wrecking this country, not the ones trying to give us fun, lightsabers, and smugglers shooting first.

[tpanisiak]

You should really take a second and learn the meaning of the words "Vocal Minority."

 

That's what you're describing. A small handful of people....and yes, we're only dealing with a small handful when compared to the actual game's population.....are complaining and phrophesying the downfall, destruction, and utter ruin of this game. Which in the grand scheme of things, indicates that a vast majority of the people aren't taking the time to complain, whine, moan, or cry for attention. Rather, they're more than likely simply playing the game. But if you honestly took a step back, this would be rather obvious.

 

 

I'll tell you what though. I'll give you $1,000 if you title your house to me on Dec. 22, 2012. You'll be a grand richer, and since the world is going to end the day before, you simply won't need it, right?

 

You say small handful, but really no one on either side of the argument has any definitive number or estimate on the amount of people sticking around for the long term, or those that are finished with the game.

 

I think a lot of people are missing the point. I'm not saying it's a bad game and we should all quit. In fact I'm doing just the opposite here and encouraging people to stay while also expressing fear that SW:TOR may one day vanish as well. For now, yes: published numbers in reviews and news articles suggest there's plenty of staying power. But, you still can't ignore the massing of people who made threads like this. And the original thread was well written and pointed out a number of flaws that I have experienced and agree with. Unlike the OP, I'm here to stay: I can tolerate it.

 

Also, I don't believe in the 2012 stuff. So, no. You cannot have my house.

[Jordan_Hoffman]

I never played WoW, I played COH/V for 4 years and loved it, mainly because, yes, I was PL'd, built my chars and just did TFs and the like with friends, making engines of destruction/control, or "Come at me bro" tanks and protected my team. So lemme get this straight....I can do the same thing in a STAR WARS game, have a voice and personality, and its written by Bioware? Yeah, thats why I'm paid up till May. My only gripes are:

 

Some costs seem too high, even in early 20s, crafting, skills, etc.

My computer kinda sucks.

Sometimes its weird seeing a level 15 enemy kick a level 22 character's butt.

 

Other than that, I've had little trouble. I am truly sorry for anyone raging at how much they hate this game, that its not all you wanted. But sympathy only goes so far, you're acting like Greg and Ray-who I have met btw(NYC Launch FTW) ran over your family in a AT-AT driven by Jar Jar Binks on a 5th of Tequlia. I am a moderate fanboy, to paraphrase:

 

"I am Grey, I stand between the candle, and the star." Or, in other words, I stand between the ragers, and the blind devotees. This goes for any fandom I like. I would have loved for STO to have ME/KOTOR's dialogue/voice system, really would have gotten to play my Captain as I truly would like. But, its not in the cards. So, in short, if you hate the game, fine, please just go, if the game flames out, you can laugh your asses off then. Till then, save the hate for the people wrecking this country, not the ones trying to give us fun, lightsabers, and smugglers shooting first.

 

I like you

[NovusAnimus]

I never played WoW, I played COH/V for 4 years and loved it, mainly because, yes, I was PL'd, built my chars and just did TFs and the like with friends, making engines of destruction/control, or "Come at me bro" tanks and protected my team. So lemme get this straight....I can do the same thing in a STAR WARS game, have a voice and personality, and its written by Bioware? Yeah, thats why I'm paid up till May. My only gripes are:

 

Some costs seem too high, even in early 20s, crafting, skills, etc.

My computer kinda sucks.

Sometimes its weird seeing a level 15 enemy kick a level 22 character's butt.

 

Other than that, I've had little trouble. I am truly sorry for anyone raging at how much they hate this game, that its not all you wanted. But sympathy only goes so far, you're acting like Greg and Ray-who I have met btw(NYC Launch FTW) ran over your family in a AT-AT driven by Jar Jar Binks on a 5th of Tequlia. I am a moderate fanboy, to paraphrase:

 

"I am Grey, I stand between the candle, and the star." Or, in other words, I stand between the ragers, and the blind devotees. This goes for any fandom I like. I would have loved for STO to have ME/KOTOR's dialogue/voice system, really would have gotten to play my Captain as I truly would like. But, its not in the cards. So, in short, if you hate the game, fine, please just go, if the game flames out, you can laugh your asses off then. Till then, save the hate for the people wrecking this country, not the ones trying to give us fun, lightsabers, and smugglers shooting first.

 

Holy **** a Babylon 5 quote. You sir, are automatically awesome.

[Taroen]

Shouldn't you be enjoying the story somewhere?

 

Shouldn't you be playing your beloved Night Elf Rogue right now..? Or maybe you're a gnome..? Or... a TROLL.

 

Personally, I think you're full of it. If you really loved WoW so much more than you love this game, you'd be there playing it, instead of yapping here.

[Aquiraj]

Don't know about it being a complete failure, but it won't be the massive messiah that the hype generated.

 

Warcraft had problems at launch but was a big attempt for the time which had never been done on such a scale in which they ended up succeeding. The big difference between this and most other MMO launches is that they were actual MMO's...

 

Swtor is not an MMO.

 

Once the glittery 'Story' aspect fades, it's a pretty hollow game. A subscription model cannot survive on a storyline based game alone.

[klinesmoker]

I never played WoW, I played COH/V for 4 years and loved it, mainly because, yes, I was PL'd, built my chars and just did TFs and the like with friends, making engines of destruction/control, or "Come at me bro" tanks and protected my team. So lemme get this straight....I can do the same thing in a STAR WARS game, have a voice and personality, and its written by Bioware? Yeah, thats why I'm paid up till May. My only gripes are:

 

Some costs seem too high, even in early 20s, crafting, skills, etc.

My computer kinda sucks.

Sometimes its weird seeing a level 15 enemy kick a level 22 character's butt.

 

Other than that, I've had little trouble. I am truly sorry for anyone raging at how much they hate this game, that its not all you wanted. But sympathy only goes so far, you're acting like Greg and Ray-who I have met btw(NYC Launch FTW) ran over your family in a AT-AT driven by Jar Jar Binks on a 5th of Tequlia. I am a moderate fanboy, to paraphrase:

 

"I am Grey, I stand between the candle, and the star." Or, in other words, I stand between the ragers, and the blind devotees. This goes for any fandom I like. I would have loved for STO to have ME/KOTOR's dialogue/voice system, really would have gotten to play my Captain as I truly would like. But, its not in the cards. So, in short, if you hate the game, fine, please just go, if the game flames out, you can laugh your asses off then. Till then, save the hate for the people wrecking this country, not the ones trying to give us fun, lightsabers, and smugglers shooting first.

 

 

Your post is humorous, but your claim that people are overreacting really does a disservice to those players who are actually concerned and are vocal in this concern. People are quick to dismiss a post when someone says they have a problem with "X," but are quick to agree when someone says "I enjoy Y." this black and white mentality is part of what hurts (not ruins, hurts) a game.

 

There are thousands of players posting daily with valid concerns about multiple issues that are seeing nothing but pitchforks and torches. Do not lump the poster YOU quoted in with the whiners and trolls, especially when he/she draws logical conclusions and makes statements that are concise and eloquent. That is simply not going to help.

[Jordan_Hoffman]

Your post is humorous, but your claim that people are overreacting really does a disservice to those players who are actually concerned and are vocal in this concern. People are quick to dismiss a post when someone says they have a problem with "X," but are quick to agree when someone says "I enjoy Y." this black and white mentality is part of what hurts (not ruins, hurts) a game.

 

There are thousands of players posting daily with valid concerns about multiple issues that are seeing nothing but pitchforks and torches. Do not lump the poster YOU quoted in with the whiners and trolls, especially when he/she draws logical conclusions and makes statements that are concise and eloquent. That is simply not going to help.

 

What is going to help is an alt+f4 and a fresh beer.

[Freyar]

Once the glittery 'Story' aspect fades, it's a pretty hollow game. A subscription model cannot survive on a storyline based game alone.

 

This I could agree with, but I'll enjoy it until I get to that point.

[tpanisiak]

Your post is humorous, but your claim that people are overreacting really does a disservice to those players who are actually concerned and are vocal in this concern. People are quick to dismiss a post when someone says they have a problem with "X," but are quick to agree when someone says "I enjoy Y." this black and white mentality is part of what hurts (not ruins, hurts) a game.

 

There are thousands of players posting daily with valid concerns about multiple issues that are seeing nothing but pitchforks and torches. Do not lump the poster YOU quoted in with the whiners and trolls, especially when he/she draws logical conclusions and makes statements that are concise and eloquent. That is simply not going to help.

 

My entire conversation in a testament to this. I was torn apart by the fanboys because I understand the concerns of those who are posting these treads, yet I also explained I have tolerance for these concerns and plan to stay for the long while.

 

I was painted black by the community quite quickly? Apparently there's not such thing as being on both sides of the argument with this CLEARLY narrow mindedness.

 

I thought the WoW forum community was bad.

Edited January 2, 2012 by tpanisiak

[Jordan_Hoffman]

My entire conversation in a testament to this. I was torn apart by the fanboys because I understand the concerns of those who are posting these treads, yet I also explained I have tolerance for these concerns and plan to stay for the long while.

 

I was painted black by the community quite quickly? Apparently there's not such thing as being on both sides of the argument with this CLEARLY narrow mindedness.

 

I am so narrow minded you cant even see me.

[AJediKnight]

WoW was a disruptive MMO when it launched and had main stream appeal because of Blizzard's history. By disruptive, I mean it altered in a significant way the design of all future MMO's that followed. The unforgiving game play of UO, AC, EQ and DAoC were replaced by player friendly features. Oddly that's kind of what Apple has been doing lately - taking everyone's crap and turning it into something so much better. It was a bit of a perfect storm as far as product launches go. No other MMO has been in that position so it's not really fair to compare SWtOR to it. It's not the second coming of WoW and no game probably ever will be. You could argue that SWtOR could have been, but it isn't.

 

SWtOR isn't disruptive, the story drive approach is an interesting feature but it doesn't have long term appeal as listening to the same story lines gets old after a couple times. Other than the story aspect, I haven't seen anything that really sets it apart other than the setting. Long term it will appeal to causal players, BioWare fans and Star Wars fans. I don't expect subscription numbers to increase beyond what they currently have at launch - the people looking to replace WoW aren't going to stay around or won't even bother to check it out so that doesn't leave a lot of potential subscribers. I'd be curious to hear from anyone that switched from WoW to SWtOR and thinks they will be playing SWtOR long term.

 

Other than some FPS issues, I've really enjoyed the game so far and I'll run a few characters to level 50 before I unsubscribe. I don't really care about the end game because I'll quit when I hit it. So for me, that gives BioWare about three months to really impress me which I don't see happening. Then it will depend on how interesting the expansion packs are.

 

I don't really know what BW can do at this point. The core game just isn't that innovative. Personally I'd love to see the space aspects of the game improved - add in open exploration, trade and combat. The only real option available is EVE and EVE is still kind at the EQ stage in regards to be very causal gamer unfriendly.

 

I agree with almost all of this, and said the same thing almost verbatim to my brother during a discussion we had concerning TOR. I love the game, but think there's enough here to justify a subscription -- he does not.

 

However, one thing that he said would draw him in almost immediately was if they actually revamped space combat to the degree where it was engaging -- IE, guild capital ships that can battle against each other (with boarding parties, snub fighters whizzing around, etc.), space-based bombardment, control of space (like, we can capture space stations, etc.) actual space trade, etc.

 

I think that would change things for a lot of people almost immediately, and would add a dyanmic to TOR that no other MMO can boast. I maintain it is a system that would have been too complex to get right before launch, but could be done as TOR's first major expansion. And if Bioware actually commits themselves to such innovation, and doesn't just throw up their hands after tacking story onto a vanilla WoW clone, then I think they have the potential to not just capture the subscription dollars of my brother, but the attention of the entire industry.

 

And the game only has to do *okay* until that point. And I don't think it will flounder, at least in the short term. There is a lot to love here, even if it isn't of as broad an appeal as it could be.

Edited January 2, 2012 by AJediKnight

[BrigOrion]

Most other mmo's failed due to their beta state. Even if they are great games now (see Conan for an example) - it doesn't matter, the damage is done in the first month.

 

The damage is done and SWTOR will be a failure. This is a fact.

 

Truth.

[Sandmanmr]

Most other mmo's failed due to their beta state. Even if they are great games now (see Conan for an example) - it doesn't matter, the damage is done in the first month.

 

The damage is done and SWTOR will be a failure. This is a fact.

 

if 1.5 million people read this comment would it be a failure?? herp... derp