Darth_Philar
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Posts posted by Darth_Philar
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Directly above this post you will see a difference of opinion in regards to strategy.
If these guys are quitters (I am not saying they are) they will each have a "justifiable" reason to quit because they were playing with the other guy.
I'm a pragmatist.
I'd rather stick it out with a losing team and get something for it over jumping ship and getting nothing.
Nothing < Something < Winning
I know how to win in Huttball, and I tell my PUG how to win. If they choose to ignore me then I'm going to get something. If they choose to listen then I'm going to get something or I'm going to win. My team cannot do anything that will cause me to get nothing. Only I can rob myself of any reward.
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Controlling mid isn't important when the enemy is running the ball towards your goal line. Control your endzone first, then control mid.
Actually, the opposite is true. If the enemy is running towards your goal line you need to control mid to prevent them from chaining goals. If your whole team is in your endzone trying to prevent a score, you will wind up on your heels the whole match doing just that... and failing.
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1: No he didn't. The point he made was that top PvPers would raid to get the best weapons. He's talking about doing whatever is necessary to get a competitive edge. If the best weapons were through crafting, they'd do that. If it was using real cash, they'd do that. I watched some swimming on TV last night and one of the swimmers talked about how he'd taken up rock climbing and ballet to get a competitive edge. Neither of which are required to be a good swimmer, but he believed the skills and experience he gained from them would improve his swimming. I believe he's the World Record holder for 50m back stroke.
2: It's not a false dilemma, logical fallacy, false dichotomy, see 1. He didn't suggest an either or situation ignoring other unconsidered situations. Or at least I certainly didn't pick that up from his post. Put simply, top PvPers will do whatever it takes to get a competitive edge.
3: Not enough, clearly. I'm not the one using fancy psychological references
Exactly my point. His post suggests that there are only two scenarios:
1. The best PvP weapons are available through PvP.
2. The best PvP weapons are available through alternative methods (crafting, raiding, etc.).
He ignored the 3rd scenario:
3. There are no best PvP weapons as all weapons have the same stats (or not stats at all) while in PvP.
There are probably even more scenarios as well.
He is ignoring alternate options (such as no in game edge), thus the false dilemma.
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WOW. See my post earlier. You fell right into is. Its the bad DPS fault, right? Its always bad DPS, its never that healing is an extremely potent game changer that in some cases, leads to gross imbalances. NOPE, its just bad dps.
I really am laughing right now. You sound exactly like the rest of the healer crowd who blames bad DPS...lol.
1 DPS thinking he can burn through a healer in a Healer + Tank combo is a BAD DPS.
Healing is completely impotent in all 1v1 scenarios (assuming equal skill and gear).
Healing is capable as long as the healer has team support.
If you can't solo a healer it is because the healer is actually a healer +1 or it is because you are a backpedalling, keyboard turning, clicker scrub.
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I certainly didn't mention anything about needing raid gear. I simply agreed that you shouldn't need to PvE to be competitive at PvP and vice versa.
Also, " false dilemma logical fallacy" - so you agree with me then, based on your double negative?
Sensitive much?
1. I was referring to the post you quoted, which stipulated that PvP gear is necessary in order to prevent people from needing to raid. This argument is a false dilemma as there are more than 2 scenarios.
2. "False Dilemma" is a name of a specific logical fallacy. "Logical Fallacy" is a name of an unsupportable error in logical reasoning. Neither of them are negatives, therefore, no double negative exists.
3. No. Talk much?
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Personally, I have no problem with the way Resolve currently works. However, since it seems quite a few players do have a problem with it, that suggests the likelihood of it being changed is pretty large.
Therefore, I'm going to make a suggestion which I believe will satisfy everyone (to some extent).
Please give white-barred players (those in Resolve Mode) a 25% damage taken reduction buff.
This will keep the negative impact of giving your foe a white bar, while helping to alleviate a lot of the complaints about being stunned and killed.
Just a suggestion, of course, but I really do think that it is one that will contribute in a positive way to the enjoyment of PvP in SWTOR.
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At least you had people reject it, which threw you back into the queue. I normally have to wait for the whole bar to expire because someone doesn't accept or reject.
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I know i am admitting we are overpowered.
Ok, just checking. It sounded like a tounge in cheek admission
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Yes we are overpowered, i love when i . . .
Cast GBTF i get stunned and rooted . . .
Leap to a target they knock me back, again . . .
Focus someone the tank guards them and taunts me . . .
Use Force Camo i get pulled right out with a stealth scan or die from the thousand dots already on me . . .
Use Rebuke the enemy has half a brain and kites me and uses LOS . . .
We are overpowered completely, nerf us please
We are overpowered. You just got outplayed.
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Slightly off topic but, This.
It should never be a requirement to raid to be competitive at PvP and vice-versa, to PvP to be competitive at raiding.
However, I strongly believe that good PvP skills can greatly improve raiding skills (situational awareness, positioning...)
Those arguments you quoted all rely on a false dilemma logical fallacy and are therefore unsupportable.
Who said anything about needing raid gear? You can normalize gear (all top end gear has the same stats regardless of its source), you can normalize stats in PvP (i.e. the gear you wear is 100% ignored and all classes are given a base set of stats while in PvP areas), or you can experiment with a bevy of other concepts.
Fact is, carrot on a stick gear grinds are boring but addictive, which is why game companies use them to keep people paying month to month.
Personally, I'm enjoying playing through the single player storylines and doing the occasional Warzone. Once I'm done with all the stories I'll be looking at the CBA of continuing to pay to play this game, and grinding is a C, not a B.
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And to think that some people called me crazy for suggesting ranked teams be limited to 1 per AC in order to force a degree of balance.
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I never leave a warzone unless something in Real Life comes up.
There are three outcomes:
1. Complete with a Win - Most Rewards
2. Complete with a Loss - Least Rewards
3. Incomplete - No Rewards
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ppl in pve gear in pvp are a joke i dont care what lvl... my rail shot crit a guy 4 times in one match for over 7k and i dueled a guildie in full campaign and still was critting on him for 6k where as on ppl with recruit gear max crit is 4800-5400 BM is 42-46k and wh crits around 38-42.. im only BM with 3 or 4 WH pieces so i can only imagine what a full wh rail shot crit on someone in pve gear would look like 8-9k? with a TD for another 4-6k even if ur rakata or campaign ur stillin at 5k +/- hp after 3 GCD or dead cause my IM is ticking for 1k+ since u have 0 exp
people that refuse to use there free recruit gear are simple put as ignorant add will be added to ignore(if my 300 slots werent already filled with jack*ss's trolling gen chat with Jawa bulll****)
You are aware that the term "PvE gear" covers more than leveling gear, right?
You should qualify your statements in order to avoid repeating the last 2-3 pages
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I don't get it. When you select the PVP tab under damage reduction do you think they're like, lying to you or something? Are you one of those guys that thinks we never landed on the moon too?
His point is that medium to high end PvE gear has better stats than Recruit that offset the PvP tab damage reduction/bonus damage to the point where it winds up washing at some point and then exceeding as you further gear up with PvE sets.
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The math is against you on this one. As an example, my Shadow tank in full Rakata/BH ear/Campaign offhand has roughly 7k more HP then when I'm in a combination of Recruit and Battlemaster (8 pieces BM, 6 recruit). Were I in just full recruit this difference would be even more exaggerated and I'd have 9-10k more HP.
In full War Hero you'll do roughly 24% more damage to a 0 expertise player. Let's assume your highest damaging ability has a tool tip value of 4k max damage, that means against me you'd have a max damage of 4960. 960 more damage. That isn't exactly a big deal when I'm compensating by having 7-10k more HP.
In recruit gear I'd have a 15% damage reduction. So instead of taking a maximum of 4960 damage I'd take a max of 4216 damage BUT 4216 dmg is a much bigger chunk out of 14-15k HP than 4960 dmg is out of 24k HP.
Calculations on damage output would vary a lot, but suffice to say the massive main and secondary stat boost from Rakata gear + over Recruit would probably make the damage reduction difference negligible also.
So contrary to popular belief, someone PVPing in Rakata gear or better while waiting to get BM is actually doing you a favor. Only brand spanking new 50s benefit from Recruit.
In medium to top end PvE gear you have the following advantages:
Higher Main Stat
Higher Secondary Stat (since no Expertise Budgeted)
Higher Endurance
Higher Armor
All of these combined wind up being greater than the Bonus Damage and Damage Mitigation from Recruit level Expertise meaning those PvE gear sets are superior for PvP than Recruit gear.
Again though, you will still die in 2-3 GCDs (4-5 in BH) of being focused making this entire debate pointless.
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Recruit gear isn't bad at all, baddies like to use it as an excuse on why they suck in WZ's "but i'm wearing recruit gear...waahhh I can't break 100k dps". I've broken 300k plenty of times wearing recruit on my marauder and my sniper is 80% recruit because I just started pvp grinding him and I just broke 771k last week. Recruit gear is superior to PvE gear...having zero expertise will cause you to get killed in a single dps rotation (esp a carnage marauder gore/ravage/scream combo.)
Recruit gear is superior to SOME PvE gear. Even without Expertise, high level PvE gear is superior to Recruit gear.
Please note that "superior" does not mean "functional". It means slightly less awful.
For example, your PvP performance in full Black Hole will be 22% superior to your PvP performance in full Recruit (that percentage is after Expertise has been factored), however, you will still only live for 2-3 GCDs from WH burst.
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I love it when the PvE house dads come in here trying to justify a reason to use their coveted PvE gear in PvP. They want to feel so significant, the truth is nobody cares about your silly little PvE accomplishments. A monkey can clear PvE content in MMO's, your enemy only gets weaker as your team gears up. It's usually not the PvE gear that makes you suck anyway, its the dead giveaway that you spend most of your time in easy mode PvE instances against computer controlled monsters that allow you to beat them with your clicking and keyboard turning newbie friends.
You can continue to practice and gear up in PvP but so does your opponent. Stay out of WZ's in your garbage gear, grab a set of recruit and spend more time PvPing, get geared. It will make you better players.
PvP > PvE
FYI - Recruit is garbage too. Your first week in WZs is going to consist of you getting blown to giblets in 2-3 GCDs regardless of the gear you are wearing.
As for your argument that PvP > PvE, you are missing nearly every aspect of a sound debate. For example, on what scale are you making that claim? Where is your supporting argument? Where is your evidence?
Sounds an awful lot like you are just grandstanding your opinion as a fact.
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After seeing this post, I REALLY want to find you in a WZ. Except I won't be complaining about your gear, I'll just be laughing as I take you out in one rotation.
Medium to top end PvE gear is statistically superior to entry level PvP gear for PvP. This is mathematically provable.
However, both entry level PvP gear and medium to top end PvE gear all suck for PvP and can be completely replaced with medium tier PvP gear in about a week making both arguments moot.
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Looking at the map/doors/node whole clicking is hard for ADD kids these days.
They should let you pass leader to someone who wants to do the job.
It's called OP chat... anyone can do it.
The guy who has dark orange colored font is no better or worse at typing than anyone else in the WZ.
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In my experience, 4 times out of 5 the replacement player vastly outperforms the quitter anyway, and that will sometimes even lead to a win. That being the case, I am fine with rage quitters who barely contributed in the first place leaving my warzone.
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I am tiered of the BAD OPS LEADERS who become leader just for the name and NEVER give directions! It is simple for most things what direction do you want everyone to go! Give Ops Leader to someone else if you are not going to do it!
One Ops leader told me the Imps defended first so we lost before we even began. BS! WE lost because he did not say a single thing until I called him out!
Is there a way to fire BAD Ops leaders while in PVP?
OPs leader is automatically assigned to the player who is closest to leveling their valor to the next level (i.e. my valor level 1 will be OPs leader before you if I am 50% to level 2 and you are only 49% to level 90).
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You'd be right if the only thing the healer did was spam heal themself and the tank just spectated. However, on my jugg? BOTH of those dps will be dead LONG before the healer is in serious trouble. Why? You charge, I chilling scream and force push, you're out of the fight for about 8 or 10 seconds, choke the other guy and oh, the healer now has enough time to get a nuke heal on himself, then I aoe taunt, that's 50% damage reduction from guard and another 30% damage reduction, mean time the healer, now with plenty of health and taking 300 point hits from you, is going to start to burn YOU down (along with me).
Healer + tank >>>>>>> 2 dps. Now, add in a cross heal add in a dps pt who is going to yoink you away from the healer (and utterly destroy you in 3 gcds because that's what they do) and so and and so forth.
Grand luck killing a healer in that environment unless you're in an organized team, and even then, grand luck.
Guard, taunt, cross heals, and peels - healers become damned monsters, couple all of that with the fact that even in BAD gear they can erase all the damage a dps could do in just 2 heals - and yeah, healers are pretty tough.
So what you are saying is that:
Teamwork > uncoordinated DPS
You just blew my mind!
Not really. I already knew that, but thanks for illustrating it for the rest of the viewers.
Fact is, healers melt like popsicles in Tahiti if they don't have teamwork backing them up.
I can solo shut down (and usually kill) a healer while playing on my undergeared Mara if he gets no support from his team. If he gets even a little help he synergizes and it becomes a 2v1 (with me being the 1, who loses).
If anything, healers need a small buff to increase their solo survivability to the level of an OP healer so that they can survive long enough for a guard, taunt, peel to be thrown to them.
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Huttball is the single most popular Warzone (it received more #1 rankings than all other maps combined in my Ranking thread).
Changing it would make players unhappy. Unhappy players quit. Quitting players empty the servers. Empty servers means you don't get to play anymore.
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Hello everyone,
I'd like to do some sampling on what people believe the current counters are with regard to class balance.
Please post your Advanced Class and Spec, what you believe you counter and who counters you.
This isn't a "debate" thread, so please resist the urge to "correct" people who hold a different opinion than you.
Once I've compiled some data with this thread I will open a Counter Debate Thread where we can rip each other apart
Thanks for your post!
Dear Rage Quitters...
in PvP
Posted
No, you don't. You gain more by winning than you do by losing. You gain more by losing than you do by quitting.
When you quit you actually gain nothing at all, and your lost opportunity costs actually start to factor in. The only way you could break even with those who lose is if you had instant queues and minimal loading times, which never happens.