AscendingSky
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Posts posted by AscendingSky
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...you're right...had they left gearing how it was in 4.0, we'd all be talking about the lack of end game additions - and come on, Uprisings are pathetic...even Heroics have more depth.
They really, really are. I can't stand them. They could've put all that effort into one or two actual flashpoints with story and new mechanics, but instead it's just 5 batches of moldy, recycled tripe, with more to come in the new year. They also seem to be designed for you to fail in the random queue, what with constantly putting teams of 4 DPS together and having non-regenerating health stations.
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That won't be a wise strategy. This would mean that you lose all the possible gear drop from the other bosses. For conquest people do it exactly because they are not interested in the loot.
If the interpretation I'm seeing is right, and that there will only be a chance of gear token loot dropping from all the bosses before the last? If they set the chance low enough, it will be far more cost-effective in terms of time spent for any raiding group to just farm the final bosses (with guaranteed drops) of multiple raids. Especially on ops like SnV with seven bosses; why run through all the bosses for a 5% chance at a random gear token when you can just farm the final boss eight times in far less time and give everyone on the team a guaranteed token?
So that's why I think there should be a guaranteed drop of a gear token from each boss. Maybe what kind of token it can be can be randomized, whereas the final boss drops a specific token? As long as we don't re-introduce the highlighted HM that made it far too easy to farm the top tier of gear, that would be a perfectly reasonable system, with the GC just being a supplement on the side.
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They have. Not in the words you wanted, but their actions admit it was.
And just to correct this a little bit...RNG gearing was the mistake...CXP, as a posterity level, achievement, or random loot enhancer, would have been fine...not the RNG gearing though.
This. Getting the occasional RNG box full of stuff for doing nothing more than playing the game could be nice enough. When you use it as a supplement, then it's a fine idea. Making that the ONLY way to get set bonus gear was the rotten apple in that particular bushel. That's the part EAWare are starting to back down on.
Don't get me wrong, the GC system needs a ton of work... it needs better CXP balancing based on time spent on different activities, for one thing. And I really wish it would stop dropping rep tokens (since a lot of people playing endgame already have a lot of those, if not all, reps maxed and so those tokens are useless and grant only 10 CXP when disintegrated). But at least they've taken the first step in trying to fix their screwup in shoving it down all our throats.
As others have said, this is a business we're talking about. They're not going to admit in words "This was a terrible idea, we're sorry." They will give marketing speak and spin how they're making an EXCITING! system even better! But as long as the end result is that gearing will not require reliance on a RNG mechanic alone, I don't need a verbal mea culpa from EAWare.
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I am willing to give them one more month of sub, just so I can be around here to see and comment on whatever comes out with these 'changes'. If the new system still ends up too RNG or the costs in terms of the Command Tokens (or whatever they call it) are just too high that it might as well be RNG, then I'll unsub after that month.
No, I'm not completely happy with the changes they've made. But at least they're making some changes, even if it's still far from all that's needed. I want to keep fighting this for a bit longer instead of giving EAWare up as a lost cause and walking away, I guess? I always was stubborn like that...
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My main issue with the idea of only the boss dropping a guaranteed gear token is the fact (as someone else has pointed out in another thread) people will just start creating lockouts to the end boss and farming it over and over and over, just like they do for conquest points now. Why do the whole op and spend hours for one token when you can spend 15 minutes on the final boss alone, then switch to an alt and do it again?
This is why I'm going to keep pushing for each ops boss to drop a token. (Maybe a random token for the non-final boss drops? So you'll still get a token for sure but it could be for any slot? That might throttle gearing up a bit without depriving people of the actual drops). Just make sure we don't do the highlighted HM of the week again; farming EV and KP for top end gear in 4.0 was definitely too easy.
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^^ Exactly.
This is a thinly veiled PvP "give me all my gear nao" thread.
OP.... if they did what you ask for... you know that PvP would be over-run with people gaming for the gear, and not actually there for a good round of PvP.
Once again, the two of us are in full agreement. Uncanny!
Fun fact: I remember back when PvPing to purchase relics to use in PvE was a thing, and all the complaining and moaning PvPers did when people kept queuing in PvE gear to grind out valor and comms to buy them. I also remember all the complaining and moaning PvPers have done lately with people AFKing out of matches after getting medals or queuing for ranked PvP when they have no idea how to PvP, to get CXP only. Making gear easier to get in PvP versus PvE will just make things much worse than that!
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CXP Boosts were implicitly a part of his argument (since they are part of the 5.0 release scheme) whether he mentioned it explicitly or not. His full argument now becomes:
a) Despite being able to pay $ for a 25% increase in the number of RNG crates you get, RNG loot crates are not pay to win.
b) Allowing people to buy gear with a combination of tokens obtained solely through play and Box Tops obtained from play and pay means that the new tokens are what makes this system pay-to-win.
Look, it's another denizen from Opposite Land!
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They addressed how to safeguard against bad results in opening crates. They addressed partially how to make it easier to gear alts.
What they have NOT addressed is the long term grind of GC... because you still need to grind for tokens. What they have NOT addressed is balancing Cxp in the various types of content such that players will play what they like rather then chase the low hanging fruit, or simply game the system with unintended play.
Some progress.. yes.. though people wanting top gear will now have to double grind for it... grind for tokens from crates and grind OPs or PvP for unassembled pieces.
There remains a lot of work to get GC stabilized and reasonably acceptable to bother with.
For once, you and I are both in full agreement. Join me and AmericanAussie for some drinks!
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Though I do not particularly care for the OPs diatribe, I would like to comment in this thread.
I for one am happy to see the changes. They seem, on the face, to be very wise ones...not as much as I had hoped, but most certainly a likely fix to most folks concerns IMO.
Jury is still out of course based on some fuzzy details, but.....
Well done.
That's my current feelings on the subject. There's still issues I feel haven't been addressed, but at least they're actually making real changes to address one of the biggest issues with the new system. I think they're overly complicating things in their solution, but at least they're offering a solution as opposed to 'our internal models say this is great' or 'we'll just keep monitoring'. It's some progress. It shows they did bend an ear and hear at least a little of what we've been saying.
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Hm? Moi? Not at all. P2W never has had a strict definition, contrary to the delusions of some. RW Currency is simply the broadest sense of the term. It's subjective to a variety of models. I simply got bored of arguing because the argument is akin to the snake eating its own tail. It will be never ending. Ta.
Once again you fail to acknowledge that earning in-game points/experience/tokens/etc. through in-game efforts alone that you can use to get rewards has never been part of the definition of 'pay to win'. If we go by your Opposite Land definition, all MMOs in the real world we live in that have ever let you level, earn stat points, earn currency or tokens, etc. would all be pay to win. Are you saying all MMOs ever made are pay to win, Opposite Lander?
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And we've officially entered into the realm of Poe's Law - genuinely cannot tell if this person is earnest and just doesn't understand the basic concept of P2W (which, hey, it happens) or is out-and-out trolling everyone now.
Well, they come from Opposite Land, so... if they're trolling, does that mean they're serious? Or are all Opposite Landers serious and therefore trolling?
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These will not go into effect until January 24 (I think- I know it's in January)
Yeah, sucks that we'll have to put up with this system without tweaks until then... I mean, even with the tweaks I'm not a huge fan of the system but at least it will be better.
The fact EAWare has been willing to at least make some changes gives me hope that they may make more, and that they are actually starting to listen to their customers again. So they get another month-and-some of sub from me, so I can see how this New Gambling Edition 2.0 turns out.
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I believe the language you've translated it into is semantics. Your stance rest upon only RW money qualifying as a P2W system. And since it does not... Ashes to Ashes
Yes it does, spending real world money on a game to get an advantage within game is the very definition of pay to win, what are you....
Oh wait, that's right, you live in Opposite Land! I keep forgetting. So somehow time and effort counts as money there, and money counts as nothing? Is that how it works? What a strange economic system Opposite Land has! Is your currency alloyed out of hypocrisy and hubris?
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Hey at least it isn't me this time haha I'm giving you a little break. I probably owe you a bottle of alcohol for all of it but the break will have to do.
How about we both bring a bottle of alcohol and we share!
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It was pre-RNG and it is now. Faceroll an op with a zerg guild, get a token and head straight to the vendor to get a guaranteed piece of gear and elevate ones ranking among the masses. It's pay to win. Rare gear must drop at a random chance percentage, like RnG had it to begin with.
Okay, so let me get this straight...
In Opposite Land where you live, where doing story chapters somehow gets you far better CXP than grinding the KP mobs did (still laughing at you about that one)
Doing something that costs zero actual real world money to do = pay to win
Spending real world money to get more loot crates faster to get better gear faster =/= pay to win.
Do I have that right, Opposite Lander? Have I translated your backwards language correctly into our English?
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Paying ... with tokens ... obtained through gameplay ... and not with dollars or euros or other real world money ...
Is Pay to Win to you?
I've had to point out to them more than once that their logic seems to come from Opposite Land! Like when they were arguing doing the story chapters got you the most CXP, far more than grinding those KP mobs...
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Heh, I thought it's actually the hardcore gamers that are more complaining about the old system? You know, the ones playing 20 hours a day, 7 days a week with command levels around 200, and only a single set piece to show for all those boxes?
The tokens come out of the same boxes that you got before and you earn the boxes the same way (ignoring changes to CXP rewards, because this is about the rewards themselves), so not sure how giving you a guaranteed reward you want is "insta".
They're just unhappy they were proven wrong, because EAWare changed things, and now they're making up random insults to throw around. They won't even acknowledge their hypocrisy in regards to criticizing what EAWare is doing now and how they're unhappy about it, after they've been bullying and berating people for doing the exact same thing all over the forums for the past two weeks. Suddenly when they don't like something, it's okay to complain about it, but not for anyone else!
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Yeah, I don't like how they justified GC in part by saying the 4.0 gearing system was too 'complex' and 'confusing' for new players... and now they're putting in an even more complex system, with items needed from multiple sources to turn in for a gear piece.
I still think GC would be fine as a supplement alongside the 4.0 gearing system. If they avoid putting back in the highlighted HM ops weekly rotation (to prevent people farming the highest tier of gear on EV and KP every time they come around), that would throttle the end game gearing. Hell, even though I don't like the idea myself, I can understand the point of them making all the bosses before the last one drop a random token instead of a set one, to throttle it further. At least you still know you WILL get a token at every boss, even if it isn't always the same one. Then that system would work fine, the casual/story players would still have a chance at endgame gear by doing the parts of the game they like, everyone would win.
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Time for a class lesson I see. Cxp boosters merely altered ones Command experience by a marginal gain, they did not in any way alter the drop chance of boxes. So no, Cxp was no more pay to win than the common xp boosters provided in game. However static vendors with 100% guaranteed items? Very much pay to win. You have no case.
How are static gear vendors that you can only use if you get drops off of operations bosses--you know, actual in-game effort, no real world money required--more pay to win than a system where ALL gear drops out of RNG crates that you can pay to open faster? If you could buy those ops tokens, I'd agree it was pay to win... but you can't. You have to actually work as opposed to throwing snowballs all day. So again, it's less pay to win than before. And for all your ranting about 'pay to win' now, you don't seem to have any trouble with the actual 'pay to win' CXP boosters!
I don't think you're even listening to yourself anymore. If you were, you'd realize you're the one who has no logic on your side, and therefore no case. Give that poor strawman a rest; what did it ever do to you?
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Putting a way to get gear outside of the New Gambling Experience "all RNG all the time" is good. But replacing a simple and functional gearing system like 4.0 had with this weird complicated combination system they're talking about now just feels like a step backwards.
I still think the easiest solution would be to put gear drops back on ops bosses just like they were before (raised for the new gear levels, of course), and let the GC system serve as a supplement to that. Don't put the highlighted HM operation rotation back on, so if people want the top tier gear, they have to go into NiMs instead of waiting for EV and KP to come around and farming that to death. That will help throttle gear progression all on its own.
That way, casuals/story players would still have chances at good gear just for playing the parts they want to play, AND hardmode heroes would be able to plan out their gear progression as before (and every now and then they could get a bonus from a random drop from a crate). Everyone would win.
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Puh-leeze. People couldn't handle playing to win so they lobbied for a pay to win system. Insta gratification at its core. That's the reality of the situation. Games are no longer about playing, they're about paying ones way to the top.
That's still a lovely strawman you've built there. Funnily enough, pay to win is what people were calling the "all RNG all the time" gearing system when CXP boosters were introduced. I don't recall you complaining then. Now people will get rewards for actual in-game effort as opposed to buying CXP boosters and grinding the easiest stuff in the game... so it's less pay to win.
I mean, how dare you argue with EAWare's decisions! You're just the vocal minority! You're bullying people by stating your opinion! So now I'm going to bully you back and insult you and your playstyle and intelligence! Blah blah blah...
Have I pointed out the hypocrisy enough yet to make it crystal clear?
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Well I am not happy. Insta gratification casuals are the cancer that's murdering gaming.
That's a lovely strawman you've built there. Why do you keep insisting on beating it?
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Yes thank you for listening to us.. the "evil vocal minority". Very grateful for the changes.
If they're willing to backpedal on "all RNG all the time" gearing this fast, then obviously we were a vocal majority! If most people loved the new system and no one was unsubbing, after all, they'd have no reason to backtrack so soon. The numbers they were 'monitoring' must have looked pretty dire for them to sign up for this much additional work on a just-released half-expansion.
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It's a step forward, I'll grant you that. I guess it finally got through to Ben "RNG is EXCITING!" Irving that not everyone likes to play the lottery constantly. Either that or some EA exec took them all to task for the drop in subs and forced them to backpedal on the all RNG all the time gearing system.
That said, I find it funny that people said the 4.0 gearing system needed to be replaced because it was somehow 'too complicated' for casuals and new players to understand... and now they're replacing it with an even more complex system!
P2W never has had a strict 
I'm giving you a little break. I probably owe you a bottle of alcohol for all of it but the break will have to do. 
Very grateful for the changes.
Devs You MESSED up this MMO even MORE with TOKEN SYSTEM!
in General Discussion
Posted
This, this, this, a million times this. Solo players have been getting catered to for the last two 'expansions', I really don't want to hear any whining about how endgame players finally got thrown a tiny bone.