Xcore
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Xcore, I'd recommend altering the OP now to include the response, just so people can understand the thread did its job. Your call, of course.
The OP will be edited to include Georg's respons on Page 123 as well as the Pro Gamer response on 121 (I believe). When I get home in an hour.
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Exactly...Lets start talking about how we can help the Devs with fixing this...Lets start breaking up the problems in to some kind of more organized fashion so they can start finding out what is causing what and for who...
Though most of the problems are the same, there may be different reasons for it happening per individual
The devs have all the info needed, this thread is very thorough. Don't worry about that part, they know what's wrong if they followed this.
Read my reply to you regarding the CC, trinkets, knockback within under half a second. Again, there is no way of writing up all example abilities, it isn't a bug report. Georg I believe understands the finer points from reading through the thread. How to fix it, that is difficult and ultimately we cant help much and its In their hands.
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Why skate around my question and focus on one negative you dont like?
Obviously the system is working properly for you right now...You are obviously having a problem with abilities firing off correctly...Hence why i said if it was working prefectly....
Why the hell is it so hard for you guys to answer a simple question...And what you state as "Has to be" is how it has to be for you...But thats irrelivent and I am not trying to bring my convo there...so please answer the question
Apologies but I'm on my phone at work atm, not skating around just not able to fully focus. I will reply properly to that post/question when I get home in about an hour.
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This issue is under active investigation.
The complication is that there are actually a number of different issues with very different causes and potential resolutions lumped together in this thread.
All we can say for now is 'we are actively working on the topic of character responsiveness'.
Wait a minute, how did this escape me and seemingly everyone else?? I am satisfied with this response, apologies for missing this somehow...
Page 123 - I will add to OP once I get home...
Also adding a Pro Gamers Opinion, very nice insight...
Vielen Dank Georg
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Let me ask you guys this...Can there be any compromise with you all? If BW was able to fix the buggyness of the UI but still had damage corresponding with the animation and it worked perfectly with no problems with the execution i.e firing off as soon as you hit the button...Would that make you happy???
I personally like the animations in there...I realize that makes some instant casts not so instant...But I like the fact that you have to wait for the grenade to land on the mob before it explodes...The saber actually has to make contact before it inflicts damage instead of damage numbers poppin out before any type of lame animation follows...
I am not saying its definitely gonna be fixed/changed/stay the same nor am i offering a solution to fixing it...Non of that...Im simply asking if the animations stayed the same and how the influence on how damage was distributed but there was no delay from when you hit the button and when the attack/ability started, would you be able to live with that and enjoy it???
I just want to say to this that instant casts HAVE TO be instant, no if, but, when, how about it. The effect of anything "instant" has to absolutely instant. The best example is and has been discussed: Getting stunned or CCd in PvP and using your Trinket (Not on GCD) immediately followed by the consular knockback. This should happen (both actions) within about .2 to .4 seconds. This is reportedly impossible, which is gamebreaking.
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I do agree with your opening post. Bioware should definitely fix the sluggishness ASAP. However, surely you can't declare a game unplayable while 1.5M (?) players are actually playing it.
I do not, but your first post seemed defensive about the entire issue. I apologize, I'm sure the person you quoted simply exaggerated as well obviously.
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There are problems with what you ask of BioWare to respond with. If all you ask for is a "period" post, then you will jump to the conclusion that they are mocking you, not to mention why post a period instead of a proper response back?
Considering that this is a business (as much as I don't like to admit it), everything they do has to be deliberate, and especially with their game being only 9 days out of official release, all eyes are on them. And by "eyes" I mean the majority of the public, not the gamers unfortunately.
Blizzard is a completely different beast, having their game up for 7 years gives them the flexibility of responding like how we would expect to if we were running the circus. They are established and have a foundation. SWTOR is still wobbling around on newborn legs, so to speak.
Give BioWare some time to figure out how to put into words that their problem really isn't a "problem" but rather a slight setback to better things to come. They have a lot of buffering (EA, lawyers, financiers, etc...) to go through before they can come out with details.
I don't disagree with anything you say here at all. However, i am sorry to say that I don't believe in Bioware's communication policy towards their playerbase. I am quite shocked at how they distance themselves from their own home (these forums) but rather prefer communication through weird 3rd party marketing and PR schemes...
It's very "de-humanizing", Bioware feels currently like that automated response menu when calling your internet Provider or something, no feeling of human connection/interaction.
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WoW had plenty of issues with the gameplay. Lag loot, falling through boats, etc etc etc. You name it, every successful MMORPG to date had it. xD
I thought you wouldn't post here anymore?
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Actually, people CAN play the game. Have you tried installing the game?
Why have you posted that? why are you watching and posting in this thread?
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Oh, I read it, I'm just not impatient. And it really does hold relevance as every other successful MMORPG had mad issues at launch. You folks are going on like it's something new and horrible.
I am getting a frightening feel that Bioware may believe that this will all wash over with time and the positive elements of the game will be enough to hold subscriptions. Perhaps they think this thread just represents a tiny, completely irrelevant minority and that in the grand scheme of things all is well!
Perhaps their entire goal was to have about 800k subs and call it a day.
Without some communication, my speculation leads me to believe that maybe they don't really see what the fuss is about? That this is just regular post launch grumpyness and we'll forget about it next patch when the "Pazaak" or "Swoop Racing" or "interior ship decoration" is introduced.
Well, feel so powerless but out of our hands ultimately...
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a. By the time that happens, the game will more-than-likely be fixed and running at near-flawless performance. I'd bet my entire life savings on that.
b. This issue that a lot of people are experiencing will probably be fixed within the next few weeks. Again, I'm not worried as I will continue enjoying this game regardless. I don't even really need PVP to make my MMORPG experience fun.
I acknowledge you are having fun witg SW:TOR, I acknowledge you believe SW:TOR is amazing and that you are part of an entire, great and friendly guild of likeminded people who love playing the game. I acknowledge that neither you nor anyone in your guild, anyone you have spoken to in game have experienced any of the appearant issues discussed in this thread.
I will grant you all of this freely and gladly if you will only grant me the wish that you stop posting in this thread. You don't have any issues discussed here, I apologize if this thread offends you, please let us continue here without you.
It is much appreciated
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I've been a big supporter of your comments in this thread, Xcore, dating back to early in the original thread. But I feel like this is asking a little too much - let me explain why. I was watching this thread and the reddit discussion when Reid said this. I was overjoyed, the very first question I think was about this very thread, and he said, 'We're aware.' That's the dot.
I thought we had "won."
But it didn't take more than THREE POSTS for people to start demanding timelines, more information, explicit approaches, etc. There HAS to be patience. BW HAS acknowledged your discussion of this problem.
Here's what would happen if a dev did post a "."
INSTANTLY, everyone would be asking follow-up questions. "When?" "So you're saying there IS a problem?" "Is it tied to server response or is it the engine?" etc etc.
I think you might be mollified by the "." but it would only cause more and more frustration due to not giving full details and timelines, which, while I would appreciate those things, I don't feel are necessary to "win."
They said they're working on it. Time to move forward.
I agree and perhaps i am speaking out of frustrations and passion but I wouldn't read to much into the reddit answer, he couldn't avoid it as it was public but did the next best thing. For all we know, he has no idea what that question even meant or referred to.
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On top of that, the Devs aren't going to be "reading this". Instead, they'll be looking at the Customer Service forum!
Lol @ you people thinking your voices will be heard in a forum irrelevant to the game's developments.
I am fairly sure that they are reading every single page and have read every single page because believe it or not 300+ pages, 3,000+ replies, 150,000+ views concerning something this mechanically flawed in the game has their attention. If not, then this entire thing doesnt deserve one subscription.
Not seeing them acknowledge this thread properly is very concerning and unprofessional.
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They did comment on it, they've acknowledged it, and said they aren't going to speak publicly about it just yet, as it's a complex issue.
That is NOT good enough. They have to show they "care" and stop this robotic community communications. Here is all I ask, if a Dev reads this, all I want is you to post in this thread a DOT ".". That is all, is that too much to ask considering the amount of people involved with this thread? Does that take too much time?
Something vague in some meaningless Q&A is simply not good enough I am sorry to say.
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Keep the thread alive in hopes to get this fixed sooner than later!
To keep this post on topic though, if Bioware doesn't pop in their heads into this thread with as much as a yellow "." (dot) to simply acknowledge the existence of this thread of over 300 pages, 3,000 replies, 150,000 views over the next 24 hours I will be sorely let down by a company who I regarded highly as well as put my trust into.
How much time, how much effort goes into a Developer simply posting something like "Hey guys, we're here, we see It. Carry on"? I mean no-one expects you to corner yourself with dates and gameplans or explanations... But to ignore something this big is simply mind boggling.
I cannot help but feel as though:
A) They simply dont care whatsoever. As in, amount of not giving a **** is only comparable to Dark Matter in the universe.
B) They believe themselves too important, too busy and cannot be bothered to post a simple 2 second "hello" in a thread that has garnered this much "press". Perhaps if we took the discussio to reddit forums?
C) they don't want to say anything at all until they have worked everything out behind the scenes, how to fix it, how to sweep the issue under the rug, how to market other things... consulting PR etc. and then at some point make a grand blog like post....
All of the above are simply poorest of the poor handling of your own playerbase. I am sorry to say but I am losing the trust in you and Blizzard has never had me doubting their own "care" for their game this much. If there would be an equivalent of this magnitude on the WoW forums, you better believe Ghostcrawler would be in there...
Bioware's past community communications had a bad trackrecord from Garrus' face in Mass Effect 1 (PC) through Dragon Ages Modding Tools to now, SW:TOR Responsiveness...
I fully expect this post deleted but I do plan on a write up on this Communications Issue for another thread.
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I mostly agree with the EA/Cashgrab/Blizzard > X etc. Discussions and posts of the last two pages but would kinda urge to try to stay closer on topic of Gameplay/Responsiveness and Bioware's potential response etc.
Although, you guys aren't straying too far from the discussion. It's only natural to take it into the direction of the last two pages... But still.
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I have read nearly everything in this thread and the thread before it, before putting in my own bit. This took the better part of a day and a half between having my companion do Slicing//tab back out to read. I finally caught up to the growing pages.
I wanted to thank everyone who attempted to add information to this listed issue-- even if some of you come off hostile while doing so. I'd also like to thank a few of the trolls for a lot of good laughs. It was entertaining to break the constant post perusing.
I experienced this firstly on my own Sorcerer. I tend to try chaining spells together-- Crushing Darkness to Affliction, Force Lightning//Lightning Strike to Shock-- and sometimes it would work. Sometimes it would not. Glad to see I was FAR from the only one.
I am in fact going to be upgrading my video card soon-- an 8600 GTS GeForce isn't really cutting it so much anymore. (I've 8 GB of RAM so I'm sure that's fine) Anyway. Big thanks to Xcore and everyone else that took time trying to examine what issues existed for this problem and what might solve them. Even when arguments arose, it progressed, and that's a telling thing when spanned across....350+ pages.
Tyvm for being so interested and the kind words too!
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I fully support the OP!
I can describe one more bug (or should I consider this a feature for Animation-lovers?):
As Jedi Guardian I cast Saber Throw from maximum range and then go for Force Leap. The GCD is lost and Force Leap doesnt happen! So I stand there and wait! Should I have waited for the Saber to return? If I do the same from 20m distance instead of 30m everything works as it should, the Force Leap works without losing a GCD!
Yes, someone posted this far back in the first thread I believe and it was defended by the BDF (Bioware Defence Force) fervently for its amazing realism...
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Stephen Reid answered this question recently:
source:
This is neither a proper response nor respectable considering the size of this discussion.
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I do remember when people went to the WOW forums to identify issues and problems after the release of Cata. The devs treated them with contempt and fanboys attacked. That is when they were not being ignored or having their threads and posts deleted. That was two million subs lost ago and the population is still dropping like a rock. I do hope that there is a response from BW and it is not "working as intended".
I have read any number of posts from top notch and competitive players (like the keybind everything guy/gal) in this thread. I am neither. I am BWs worst nightmare because I am an average player and am one drop in the main ocean of their subs. As such, I am seeing the issue identified by the OP and it is detracting from my gaming experience. I have cast spells and had them lag terribly before they actually fire. I have cast spells and had them misfire. I have cast spells (like mind maze against non droids) and have them fire with no effect at all (no stun after they hit). I have cast mind maze (a sixty second stun) against an npc and done nothing after (so as to not deal damage) to watch it's effect and seen the npc come out of it in three to five seconds. As a JC Shadow, I am not overpowering in the direct damage dealt by my attacks. I depend on stuns and dots and if I can't stun when I have to and lag when I try to apply my dots, I am toast. If an average player is noticing the issues raised by the OP and having his/her game play affected then indeed BW has a problem. I am not saying that it will kill the game or whatever. I am saying that the combat system with the problems identified (and a few others) will make my time playing the game much less. If a significant number of people (average players) who do not come to the forum are feeling as I do, it does not bode well.
This is a very good post even if its a block of text because it pinpoint the danger that SW:TOR is facing. The forum is a representation of the mood of the overall community, yes it is a calcuable % and representation of the people who never even come onto the forums but still share the same views.
This thread and this subject have created a staggering amount of recognition and support on the forums, that much is undeniable. The thousands of people who have followed this thread (i find it far more likely to be in the thousands than hundreds) are a mere fraction of the people who are in game, not following the forums but share the same sympathies.
Bioware need not be concerned about me being affected by this or even a few thousand forum goers but they do need to be concerned about the silent masses who simply leave, without a word but because of this same "seemingly" un-identifiable issue.
Nice post Asbalana, I'd like to add a reference to it in the OP.
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I'm gonna go ahead and disagree...Just because we dont experience all of the problem or any of it, doesnt mean we are just casual, or not good players, or have poor receptiveness....We just dont experience it..
I think its pretty crappy that you automatically assume someone isnt as good as you or some @##$ like that because they dont have a problem...
My desktop at home is pretty damn powerful that I had assembled, I have been raiding and pvp'n in MMO's since 2004 and been pretty damn successful with it..And honestly, there were times in WOW where'd I hit the button and it glitched or didnt respond at all...saying that WOW is perfect in that department isnt entirely true
This is part of the problem, accepting that something you yourself cannot perceive but is in fact true due indisputable and factual evidence is not always easy. I'm not going to call names or label you a casual, a noob or whatever else. However, I will state that you do have the same exact thing happening but simply and honestly do not notice it. This could be for various reasons but those are personal and not external (computer, game etc.)
It's much like a a tree falling in the forest, it does in fact make a sound. Even though the deaf person is camping in the forest and did not hear it, it did make a sound.. but it gets ridiculous when you walk him over to the felled tree and he still claims it didnt fall last night.
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While issue may seem minor to some in larger scheme of things it will prevent developement of meaningful endgame content (you know everyone reading it will be 50 and will look for stuff to do) and establishing competitive pvp community.
Both things are what keeps games ticking and both of them are impossible with built-in UI lag.
This is very important to recognize and I wish I would've thought about this more in the OP and touched upon it. Perhaps I thought it was obvious anyways but Its important to point out that in a system with delay an issues in responsiveness you cannot develop any competitive environment worth mentioning.
This Is a very big and dangerous consequence that needs to be taken into account.
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I replied. The only 100% concrete proof I have is my Curse account, which I linked. Unless you want a picture of me holding a check in which case you could just look up my Facebook.
I'll use the curse link but for effect wanted to add tournament names/team names/placings as well, consider it anecdotal evidence.
Either way I pursue this because I believe your opinion carries a lot of weight on this subject and your stature (if true) should cement it. Bioware should care and distinguish between informed and uninformed opinions.
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Because you apparently have the memory retention of a 5 year old, I'll requote your own words "I bring up EVE, "as a negative" because the game didn't make a lot of money and wasn't very successful in the long run
So I'll repeat myself, since it's obvious your WoW kiddie brain is a bit thick. Eve made tons of money and was a success by any measure.
You, on the other hand, spew WoW kiddie garbage at every turn and suck at posting.
So please stop.
What's with this "WoW Kiddie" term, by using it you immediately pay a severe price to anyone of intelligence reading it.
Also reedful in case you missed it, I'd like you to list some tournaments you attended and teamnames if possible before I add your contribution to the OP
Thanks
Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)
in General Discussion
Posted
What I'm trying to say is that we (some of us) have kind of understood that this issue is very multi-layered and deeply rooted in the combat mechanics and gameplay mechanics of SW:TOR.
It has to do with Animations (Start and Executions), net coding, coding, UI response as well as alignment to animations and timers, GCD timer, likely optimization as well as (probably very importantly) the faking of sync that WoW does which one very intelligent person brought to the discussion in this thread.
So this Isnt easy, it wont happen tomorrow but there is some feedback which is good. Georg, I urge you to keep us posted and perhaps give more details (not timeframes)